Reeves still

[LEJKaya]

I think Reeves could be given a useful worthwhile ability to make them 1 point each if they lose CRA.


Its possible that they could be viable as an 8 point unit, but I'm not sure we'll see a 2 point reduction for them and for 8 points we can get a weaponmaster ranged unit. Hell, Reeves could have weaponmaster for 10 points! :)

Anyway, I just wondered what other people were feedbacking, the unit clearly still doesn't work for 10 points though Snap Fire was a great boost, they still don't have a decent role to play in a circle list and if they did, they aren't worth their current cost.

[Corevak]

I've only gone against them one time and I've never played them. But snap fire makes for some grate water-falling they are there for taking out medium to light infantry. I now someone is going to say we have enough ways to take out large numbers of infantry and that may be true but it is always nice to get something that dose it a little differently. Adds to the flavor of the game. Could they use some changes maybe, but I think that most of use are happier with them know then we where with there first incarnation.

[Spooker]

I was a little happier with them. But for the points, I probably will still
leave them on the shelf. All of the ideas that I have seen are pretty good.
No need for me to add to them.

I was hoping that this unit would be so much better than what they are. Painted up, they are one great looking group of
figs. And I would love a Wolves-of-Orboros themed army with a Wo0
Warlock leading them.
My feedback has been nice - but still needs something else to see the table regularly.

As always - imho

Take care.

[LEJKaya]

The main thing is they are obviously not worth the same as nyss hunters who are also available and the same points.

Given the choice I'd rather be able to take the fluffy and cool looking reeves over the nyss but realistically if I was wanting such a unit there's no way I could choose the reeves if I want to remain competitive.

[Bakemono]

The main thing is they are obviously not worth the same as nyss hunters who are also available and the same points.

Given the choice I'd rather be able to take the fluffy and cool looking reeves over the nyss but realistically if I was wanting such a unit there's no way I could choose the reeves if I want to remain competitive.

Yep. This is the long and the short of it. I own a fully expanded Reeves unit, painted and ready to go. I have a hard time bringing myself to put them in the field. Unless I'm fighting an extremely high points game, there just isn't any justification. I'd like the better back with Double Shot rather that Snap Shot. With the forest generation we have now, it might almost have been enough synergy to give it a shot. Unfortunately they changed them (and not for the better). Snap Shot makes them primarily an anti-infantry unit. I don't need that. What they needed was a 12" range but otherwise remain the same as MKI.

[LEJKaya]

12" Range would have been just as bad with dual shot. Long gunners make it work with 14" but pretty much its their 18" that makes them worth the points.

I agree with the new warden the forests synergy could have been nice but tbh hunter is about existing forests, not created ones.
I don't think we'd be getting a viable CRAing, dual shotting unit that can get the POW 20s for jack/beast killing. Infantry killing is what we do and they got better at that, though not quite enough.

[Bakemono]

12" Range would have been just as bad with dual shot. Long gunners make it work with 14" but pretty much its their 18" that makes them worth the points.

I don't bother comparing them to Long Gunners. They are at the extreme of good ranged units. I base what I think they need at a minimum on my field experience in general. A 12" range would allow me to fire at a lot of targets that were previously not viable.


I agree with the new warden the forests synergy could have been nice but tbh hunter is about existing forests, not created ones. I don't think we'd be getting a viable CRAing, dual shotting unit that can get the POW 20s for jack/beast killing. Infantry killing is what we do and they got better at that, though not quite enough.

Created or already there, they can see through them. I have never used the Reeves for infantry killing (I consider that rather pointless) and I'm unlikely to be doing it in the future. Without a serious, major change in the models they simply won't get used unless I'm invited to play a ridiculous big game. Those don't come up in tournmanents so the Reeves will NEVER see tournament play. If I want to kill infantry I'd take Tharn (of various stripes). They do the job right.

[Blaque]

I personally don't compare them to Trenchers either. I compare then to the Nyss Hunters we have. And well, as noted, Snap Fire doesn't make up for the better melee ability, speed and range I don't think.

And stuff.

[Blaque]

And as an aside, Houseguard Riflemen are 6/9 and Nyss Archers 5/8 somehow. Which makes me scratch my head at the Circle pricing being that of Long Gunners.

And more stuff.

[bushman101]

I'd be happy if they were priced the same as the Wolves of O (4/6)

I can handle having a lack-luster unit if it's cheap

[Mavwick]

The snap fire change warrants a change in points cost and they haven't reached that point in testing yet. They used to pay for the (albeit rare) potential to fire twice in CRAs. Now they're more of an anti-infantry choice with the option to CRA harder targets. They're not worth any more than 6/9, and I still have a hard time not taking the cheaper Bloodtrackers.

[LEJKaya]

I know I said it as a joke earlier but for 10 points they really could have weaponmaster with their crossbows, assuming PP don't want us to have that good ranged units the points need to drop.

[Zyrael]

This conversation could have been over weeks ago if they would just add +2" of range or make them a 5/8 unit.

Snap Fire works tho. I really am enjoying it.

[thepetchle]

I think they should just have Rof2. None of these ability shanigans. They have double crossbows. They should get to attack twice period. Leave the shorter range as long as they always get to shoot twice.

[Solarhaphaeriom]

And as an aside, Houseguard Riflemen are 6/9 and Nyss Archers 5/8 somehow.

Reeves are kind of better than Nyss Archers at this point though. 2" less range, but higher RAT, ARM, Dual Shot and forest trickery. Not saying the Reeves are worth 6/10, just a comment. It seems like all the Hordes ranged units are rather weak for the price in Mk2, probably intentionally.

[LEJKaya]

Reeves are kind of better than Nyss Archers at this point though. 2" less range, but higher RAT, ARM, Dual Shot and forest trickery. Not saying the Reeves are worth 6/10, just a comment. It seems like all the Hordes ranged units are rather weak for the price in Mk2, probably intentionally.

Comparing the two I can't see a use for Reeves.

Nyss have CRA, Hunter and pathfinder.
Same RAT, same POW, +2" range.
Weaponmaster with melee.

Reeves have the waterfalled snap fire.


It'd be ok for reeves to be high costed because of the way the faction works or because of the way HORDES ranged units cost. Currently though Circle have 2 ranged options, Reeves and Nyss, that are very similar and Nyss are far superior to Reeves for the same cost.
Reeves need something to make them a viable option and not just a possible tier list or future combo. They need something to make Reeves themselves a useful choice.

[Rosicrucian]

Part of the problem is that there aren't any really meaningful faction ranged buffs to set the Reeves apart from the Nyss. Mirage is about it. Turn Krueger2 or a new warlock into a ranged support Warlock and the Reeves could look a lot more attractive. Frankly a lot of Warmachine shooting units compare poorly to Nyss. They're quite good.

[Teleologica]

Absolutely. While I understand if PP's design philosophy for Circle is that we shouldn't have long ranged shooting - as we'd then be fast, terrain generating, hard to hit, AND able to kill you from across the board ;) - we still need some reason to take the units we have.

Blood trackers are fantastic in their role, as are Wolf Riders, without needing supporting models. Reeves currently aren't (I admit, I've only played the unit twice with proxied models). Krueger looked like he was going to be fantastic for Reeves until they clarified Electroleap as melee only. And the other obvious linked units, WoO, War Wolves, Morraig, range from decent to meh. Like Reeves, not actually rubbish, but not that interesting. Even if they don't give us a ranged support 'lock, I'd like to see the Orboros infantry/solos giving each other something. (I don't like the word synergy, but, yeah, that's what I'm talking about :rolleyes: )

[krom71]

Without a point reduction, I'll only play them in Wolves of Orboros themed lists. I have a better option with Cylena and the Nyss Hunters for 10 points.

+1 SPD, +2 DEF, + 2 RNG, -2 ARM (which doesn't come into play as much because of the excellent DEF), the same ranged skills as the Reeves and +1 MAT & Weapon Master on their melee weapons.

[Faradon]

The only real benefit of Reeves over Nyss is the faction name. If we get a warlock with snipe or some ranged support it might make them worth it.. but as of right now I would agree that Nyss are by far the better choice 99.9% of the time.

That said, in a shooty list I'd consider both :)

[otakud00d]

Range 12, dangit. Range 12...!

I really think that'll help them out. Back when they had CRA Dual Shot, one ability I figured would be amusing was Gorten's double-shot as an alternative.

[Rosicrucian]

Range 12, dangit. Range 12...!

I really think that'll help them out. Back when they had CRA, one ability I figured would be amusing was Gorten's double-shot as an alternative.

They still have CRA.You mean dual shot?

[Zyrael]

They still do have CRA.

But ya... RNG 12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[otakud00d]

They still have CRA.You mean dual shot?
*Derp.* Thank you. I meant, when they had Dual Shot.

[thepetchle]

Alright Ive been thinking this over and it might just be that im drunk, but i think we can all agree we want a range boost. Now there might be some naysaying and boo hissing but what if to get it they lost CRA in favor of RNG 14. And became fully geared towards mowing down infanry. Also a moderate drop in point cost that i think we all agree they need.

[Amarel]

I just can't see them getting bumped to RNG 12 - PP seem to be going out of their way to avoid this.

I'm just thinking a little on the fly here, but I wonder if Snap Fire allowing a 1" move before the second shot would work? You could use it to get closer to a back rank, move across to ensure a CRA target with the next in line on the second shot, move back into a forest, etc.

[LEJKaya]

Swift Hunter was a suggestion previously, It would still be ok for them.

[Dragonowar]

I pitched in at reducing their cost to 5/9. I think we have some good support (or will have when the rules have settled some) for them but not enough to merit 5/10. I don't see us getting rng 12 (which I would like alot) but they either need something or a reduction in points.

[Elias Macale]

I'm more or less in agreement; they need a reduction in point cost, or RNG 12. One or the other would probably sort them out.

[LEJKaya]

Currently they would be a poor choice at 4/8. You may see them fielded at that cost but they wouldn't be good. They need a decent boost to make them worth 9 or 10 for a full unit.

[More Shooting]

Having had a quick look around, it would appear only the elves (Nyss or Ios) get RNG 12 bows/crossbows. All other bows/crossbows are RNG 10.

[Elias Macale]

This hit me today, and I think it would work fantastically with the reeves; give them Battle Hardened, (I think that's what it's called, it's an ability granted by the Retribution Rifleman UA) so that they can shoot (CRA?) into melee without penalty (I think?). That way, the somewhat questionable synergy with War Wolves and WoO would be strengthened a bit more, and they can shoot at targets that are engaged, and thus be effectively screened by melee troops.

[Dragonowar]

After some more deliberation, why can't we have prey on the reeves? Our 5/8 hunting girls have it. I think our 6/10 hunters ought to have it.

Now before the powers of flame engulf me, think about it. The tharn ladies excel at throwing weaponmastered spears at larger targets. This is their niche. The Reeves (with snapfire) currently excel at killing infantry. Let them be a good anti infantry unit.

I have not tested this idea in any great amount so take it with a grain of salt.

[Rosicrucian]

Not a huge fan just because I feel it blurs the line between the two units a bit too much.

[Blaque]

I suggested Prowl most recently myself. I like to maybe try and get taht on more Wolf of Orboros stuff, but I think more Stealth or Stealth-like abilities wouldn't hurt. Also helps Reeves against other ranged units and such.

ANd stuff.

[Mael]

Prowl seems like a good bonus for the unit.

[Elias Macale]

I still like Battle Hardened myself, but prowl seems reasonable as well.

[Ergonus]

Now that you mentioned the battle hardened, my bet would be that we will get a UA for the reeves in our future book. It will probably grant that ability to the unit so the synergy between the WoO and warwolves will gel nicely. I could see some nasty Bladur and Morvahna armies working nicely with that UA.

On the topic of prowl, I think that would go along way to helping there survivability and let them get into position a lot easier and get more shots off and actually get there points back.

[Phatheadaf]

anybody ever seen the synergies of the warwolf and the reeves pay off?

[Zyrael]

ONCE. I had "sick em" kill a bloat thrall.... then the explosion killed the warwolf... and 3 bane knights...hehe.