Cygnar, NQ spoilers.

[Chuck B]

I found this in the khador section,


There's Cygnar spoilers as well in the new NQ (but no Menoth/Cryx), but this here is the heartland of the MOTHERLAND!

If you really must know, it's the trencher kommandos (they stole our idea!) and some sort of stormsmith super- battery-attached-to-a-staff thing (see the concept art with the insane stormsmith from the current NQ? Yea, that's them. They're classified as an 'artillery attachment' or something, IIRC)

and this in the scattergunner thread.

Some NQs have hit shelves by now.

Commandos have stealth and anatomical precision ... rng 10, pow 10 on guns (10 points for full unit)

That's all I know. Kayazy Assassins with guns! Cygnaran Shank Squad to the rescue!

And as for the Cards

Indeed - B13 remained at 4 pts.

[mrhuettel]

"artillery attachment"... i'm already lovin' it!

still: people of cygnar! who's got the new nq?

i'll see if it is available at my lgs, but my hopes are rather low. they usually have the new stuff one week after the official date.

[knight_actual]

cant wait. wonder if the anatomical precision is on the gun. if it is....+finn... who cares about any infantry?... ever?

Grenades too?
AND a dude with a shotty?!

[PaintThrall]

Anatomical Precision is on a melee attack. They would have to have Sniper skill the same as Widow Makers have to auto-wound on their range attack

[Robert Shepherd]

Anatomical Precision is a melee-only ability. The approximate equivalent for ranged attacks is Sniper. It's still useful for the Commandos, though; makes them a bit of a dual purpose unit.

I'm really keen to see what else these guys have, and what their stats are like.

[knight_actual]

PaintThrall. Seemingly with NQ in hand: can you tell us more about the lightning stuff? doesn't sniper work on non-living things as well?

[Techcasualty]

good god the commandos better not have a CRA or trenchers are screwed. Only thing saving them now.

who needs assault when you have 'i walk in an stab you in the back for instant death'

[PaintThrall]

PaintThrall. Seemingly with NQ in hand: can you tell us more about the lightning stuff? doesn't sniper work on non-living things as well?

I don't have NQ:( but whoever does I join the plea for spoilers for lightning cannon guy

[Techcasualty]

much more...I don't know, worrisome? There are people speaking of the cards

[Amarel]

There are people speaking of the cards
Indeed - we know that Menoth lost Rebuke and that B13 remained at 4 pts, but I want more info dagnabbit (the UK always gets the cool stuff last :().

[mrhuettel]

but I want more info dagnabbit (the UK always gets the cool stuff last :().

don't forget the german shops - we are praying to see the new stuff in the next few weeks, this week seems out of discussion.

but: someone has to have the new nq by now... i just came back from my lgs, no nq until friday at least. so: feed us, oh ye faithful!

[Mod_Redphantasm]

NQ 28, prepare to be fed blues:

Trencher Commandos:

Stats of Trenchers +1 MAT, 6/10 pts

POW 9 knives, POW 10, RNG 10 guns, POW 12, RNG 6 AOE 3 Grenades (Grenades have Cumbersome)

Anatomical Precision, Advanced Deploy, Stealth

__________________________________________________ ______________

The Cygner storm tower is also present, see the concept art in NQ 27 for the idea.

2 person light artillery, with all the rules trimmings such as range finder, light artillery, gunner etc etc. 2 points

Rng 14, POW 14 lightning bolts (RAT 5/7) with d3 arcs and crit disruption.

[Bladestorm]

NQ 28, prepare to be fed blues:

Trencher Commandos:

Stats of Trenchers +1 MAT, 6/10 pts

POW 9 knives, POW 10, RNG 10 guns, POW 12, RNG 6 AOE 3 Grenades (Grenades have Cumbersome)

Anatomical Precision, Advanced Deploy, Stealth

__________________________________________________ ______________

The Cygner storm tower is also present, see the concept art in NQ 27 for the idea.

2 person light artillery, with all the rules trimmings such as range finder, light artillery, gunner etc etc. 2 points

Rng 14, POW 14 lightning bolts (RAT 5/7) with d3 arcs and crit disruption.

Thanks!

Looks like the commandos are fairly good at clearing single wound infantry, but not great at anything else, though as our first unit with stealth and benefitting from Finn they might still find a place.

The storm tower meanwhile sounds pretty good to me. just enough power to put some damage on medium and heavy targets, D3 leaps (is that D3 electroleaps at pow 10 or D3 leaps at pow 14? I'm assuming the former..) for clearing some infantry and at a pretty cheap price to boot.

[GunMageinTraining]

Range 14? Ick!

[Dino-Czar]

Range 18? Yikes!

[GunMageinTraining]

So now your assuming were using a snipe caster?

Again, we get hamstringed with that damn spell, for all it's only on two casters.

[Templar Coyote]

Yeah, it'd be different if it was on a Journyman!

[knight_actual]

maybe Kara would have it.

[Bladestorm]

It's enough for a first strike and if it deals some damage to a heavy and kills another 1-3 infantry or just kills 2-4 infantry then it's probably paid it's 2 points off there and then.

The changes to snipe also mean it's not as crazy as it might once have been to have it on something like this, though it really isn't on that many casters. On Kara with it, it would seem fairly in character but then so would deadeye and I really doubt they will be giving her both since that is Caine's thing.

[Amarel]

NQ 28, prepare to be fed blues:
Tasty snacks. Thank you :).

[knight_actual]

Still the same weakness in RAT tho.

[Dino-Czar]

So now your assuming were using a snipe caster?

Again, we get hamstringed with that damn spell, for all it's only on two casters.

I didn't assume anything, I pointed out potential.

Just because a model is poor choice sometimes doesn't mean it isn't a great choice other times. List building is part of the game too, after all.

[GunMageinTraining]

I'm just saying, 14" is tied with the shortest "artillery" in the game with the Thumper, and granted it may be about as strong, so we need to wait and see what it can do.

[Dyoria]

I wonder how explosivo would work with this.

Say you were to shoot this storm tower at some units in shield wall while buffed with explosivo. The normal shot becomes and 3" AOE. Where do the electro leaps come from? The center of the blast, or the furthest point hit by the aoe? This would help the electroleaps hit targets you want it to hit.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

I'm just saying, 14" is tied with the shortest "artillery" in the game with the Thumper, and granted it may be about as strong, so we need to wait and see what it can do.

Most other artillery are scattering AOEs though. This 14" comes with D3 leaps, ie, automatic hits. It refered to them as arcs, cannot remember if they were POW 10 or 14.

[Templar Coyote]

With the way explosivio worked last I saw, just the center, since the effects of the gun (AP being an example) don't carry over to the explosivo blast damage... it could have changed, but I'm fairly positive that the main target would be the node for the arcs.

[Wishfullthinker]

I'm just saying, 14" is tied with the shortest "artillery" in the game with the Thumper, and granted it may be about as strong, so we need to wait and see what it can do.
True, but most likely it will be electrical damage, so you could blast one of your own troops and have the leaps take the range out to 18. It might also have some synergy with the ther storm smiths. It might have the same stormcall abilties of stormsmiths, thus ignoring LOS, and would then be effected by Eemo's cade bonus

[Templar Coyote]

Stormsmiths don't ignore LOS anymore... less there's been a new ruling out since the PDF showed up

[Dino-Czar]

If they have an aimer that adds to their RAT then they aren't storm calling.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

True, but most likely it will be electrical damage, so you could blast one of your own troops and have the leaps take the range out to 18. It might also have some synergy with the ther storm smiths. It might have the same stormcall abilties of stormsmiths, thus ignoring LOS, and would then be effected by Eemo's cade bonus

I'm telling you from the mag itself, it does not have storm call abilities. The generator is a normal ranged attack with all the restrictions. It is of type electrical and arcs D3 times.

[leo_neil316]

NQ 28, prepare to be fed blues:

Trencher Commandos:

Stats of Trenchers +1 MAT, 6/10 pts

POW 9 knives, POW 10, RNG 10 guns, POW 12, RNG 6 AOE 3 Grenades (Grenades have Cumbersome)

Anatomical Precision, Advanced Deploy, Stealth

__________________________________________________ ______________

The Cygner storm tower is also present, see the concept art in NQ 27 for the idea.

2 person light artillery, with all the rules trimmings such as range finder, light artillery, gunner etc etc. 2 points

Rng 14, POW 14 lightning bolts (RAT 5/7) with d3 arcs and crit disruption.

Wow. Okay thoughts.

I can't -believe- how underwhelmed I am by the commandos. A point more for rangers who've swapped mark target, +1 RAT, pathfinder, prowl, +1 DEF, +1 SPD for +1 MAT, anatomical precision and stealth?

Really? Shooting wise the rangers are just better (Higher RAT and POW at longer ranges, -1 pow and PLUS THREE RAT at short ranges) +1 MAT will help stab people sure, but MAT 6 doesn't have much trouble hitting infantry and unless we're talking shield-walls, POW 7 works just fine on the charge against infantry.

If they cost the same it'd seem alright, switching the dodgier support unit for a more in your teeth unit that could possibly get very stuck into infantry. But right now I'm just not seeing any reason to spend more to get these guys over rangers. Even to -finally- have stealth in Cygnar.

The stormtower however is f***ing A+ material (and the utter, final death knell of the trencher cannon unless you love dig in JUST THAT MUCH).

Please tell me it's got an FA of two. Just think, we'll be able to bounce the electro-leaps off of stormstuff to hit stealthed things with mini-chain lightning.

More POW 14's for Seige! Hell two of them'll knock a good few points off of even heavy stuff without trying very hard.

[Bobby Hostile]

I'm just saying, 14" is tied with the shortest "artillery" in the game with the Thumper, and granted it may be about as strong, so we need to wait and see what it can do.

Negative. Trencher Chain Gun is the shortest ranged arty piece. Just say'n. :)

[MindwormJim]

Actually, Trenchers are base Mat 6, so the Commandos are Mat 7.
In fact, they are almost like Skorne Bloodrunners who trade Pathfinder for guns. And the option to shell out the points for a full unit. Seem solid to me. They kind of beg for Assault and Battery though, as they want to throw grenades and then shank the survivors.

[Virgil38]

Does it mention anything about acting as another point for stormcall? I'm guessing not, but one could dream.

[LemmingStampede]

The commandos are really nothing special. A generically good unit, but they suffer from the problem that Cygnar already has tons of light infantry sweep, so more is of questionable necessity.

The nice thing is that the Commandos won't take a lot of support. Most of the Cygnar buffs are better on other things, so Commandos will tend to stand on their own. I can see using them with casters like Darius and eStryker who don't directly buff anyways. Good with eStryker because them + Rolling Storm means a lot of dead infantry.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Wow. Okay thoughts.

I can't -believe- how underwhelmed I am by the commandos. A point more for rangers who've swapped mark target, +1 RAT, pathfinder, prowl, +1 DEF, +1 SPD for +1 MAT, anatomical precision and stealth?

Really? Shooting wise the rangers are just better (Higher RAT and POW at longer ranges, -1 pow and PLUS THREE RAT at short ranges) +1 MAT will help stab people sure, but MAT 6 doesn't have much trouble hitting infantry and unless we're talking shield-walls, POW 7 works just fine on the charge against infantry.

If they cost the same it'd seem alright, switching the dodgier support unit for a more in your teeth unit that could possibly get very stuck into infantry. But right now I'm just not seeing any reason to spend more to get these guys over rangers. Even to -finally- have stealth in Cygnar.

The stormtower however is f***ing A+ material (and the utter, final death knell of the trencher cannon unless you love dig in JUST THAT MUCH).

Please tell me it's got an FA of two. Just think, we'll be able to bounce the electro-leaps off of stormstuff to hit stealthed things with mini-chain lightning.

More POW 14's for Seige! Hell two of them'll knock a good few points off of even heavy stuff without trying very hard.

Commandos I like, even if rangers seem on the outside to be better. Though we have yet to see the final rules for rangers, I think the commando's mix it up better in combat. The difference between MAT 6 and 7 is a big one, and anatomical precision just makes your attacks that much more effective, you don't even need to roll damage against single wound models.

Can confirm though, the Tower if FA 2.

[Bladestorm]

I figure when we get the trencher themed list, these are the melee/infantry chewing troops where the regular trenchers go after harder targets.

[leo_neil316]

can confirm though, the tower if fa 2.

can we get a hell yeah?!

[DarkLegacy]

True, but most likely it will be electrical damage, so you could blast one of your own troops and have the leaps take the range out to 18. It might also have some synergy with the ther storm smiths. It might have the same stormcall abilties of stormsmiths, thus ignoring LOS, and would then be effected by Eemo's cade bonus

You target a model, therefore, you need LOS to the model. Stormcalling can no longer go completely through forests or other terrain that blocks LOS.

[Lexington]

Never thought I'd see the day when Cygnar players complain about getting a Stealth unit.

Personally, I did a jig.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Never thought I'd see the day when Cygnar players complain about getting a Stealth unit.

Personally, I did a jig.

But its not as good as.....

[Killionaire]

Range 14? Ick!

Two points! YES!

[Dyoria]

Trencher Commandos + Finn...

MAT 9 with anatomical precision... and Desperate Pace meaning they can charge 11" before counting Piper. Thats a long distance charge for a non reach unit with stealth.

Plus you know they are going to get some sort of cadre bonus from someone and tier list bonuses.

[Killionaire]

Did we forget something else? Yes, the Scattergunner WA! 1 Point for a SPRAY on this squad? In CYGNAR? That's going to be absolutely insane. We're talking about +2 RAT from Rangers, and/or +2 RAT from TB, and/or +2 RAT from Finn...

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Trencher Commandos + Finn...

MAT 9 with anatomical precision... and Desperate Pace meaning they can charge 11" before counting Piper. Thats a long distance charge for a non reach unit with stealth.

Plus you know they are going to get some sort of cadre bonus from someone and tier list bonuses.

Since when does the piper give a movement buff?

[DarkLegacy]

Since when does the piper give a movement buff?
Agreed.

?Dirge of Mists - Affected models gain +1 DEF and Terror ICON for one round.
?Heroic Call - Affected models gain Fearless ICON and Tough ICON for one round.
?March - Affected models gain Pathfinder ICON for one turn.

[Mutton]

I could see myself taking Finn with these dudes, if only for DP. Outthreating SPD6 Reach units is awesome.

[otakud00d]

This pretty much means that the Trencher Cannon HAS to change for the faction book, and for the better.

If it ends up being worthwhile, I'm going to laugh because I bought one, damn it.

[Aries37]

Since when does the piper give a movement buff?
He's thinking of Mk1, march was different

[Karyle]

This pretty much means that the Trencher Cannon HAS to change for the faction book, and for the better.

If it ends up being worthwhile, I'm going to laugh because I bought one, damn it.

Hey man, I understand. I bought two, damn it!

...Of course I did trade one off on Bartertown, but that doesn't count! I still bought it!

[Mod_Redphantasm]

This pretty much means that the Trencher Cannon HAS to change for the faction book, and for the better.

If it ends up being worthwhile, I'm going to laugh because I bought one, damn it.

Sometimes AOEs > arcs, and normal > electrical.

[Typhael]

So now your assuming were using a snipe caster?

Again, we get hamstringed with that damn spell, for all it's only on two casters.

Honestly...it's not like most artillery has range in huge excess of 14". What's the problem?

(note: these numbers are from the pdf, not the new cards)
Cygnar - Trencher Cannon 15"
Cygnar - Chain Gun 10"
PoM - Sunburst 16"
Cryx - Bloat Thrall 12"
Cryx - Rev Cannon 14"
Khador - Mortar 20"
Trolls - Thumper 14"
Circle - Artillery? 0"
Skorne - Catapult 18"
Legion - Scather 15".

The Khador and Skorne artillery have always been "special cases" of sorts, since those factions generally specialize in up-close beatdowns, and need some sort of long-ranged support. As for the rest...really? You're being hamstrung? Did you want 18" on the artillery piece in the first place? How would that be even remotely reasonable?


I'm just saying, 14" is tied with the shortest "artillery" in the game with the Thumper, and granted it may be about as strong, so we need to wait and see what it can do.

Really? I was under the impression that 0" is technically the shortest range of artillery, followed by 10" for the Chain Gun, then 12" for the Bloat gun.


Two points! YES!

Exactly! The Tower looks like a reall cool and functional artillery piece! Then again, I might just be seeing things from the Land of Milk-and-Honey over here in Cryx...

[Defenstrator]

They look ok. A unit to tie up shooting or dealing with enemy shooting. They don't look like they'll do much vs warjacks or heavy infantry though.

[Killionaire]

Not that I don't think this Storm tower is going to kick ***, but the Bloat is a different case. It can move while firing. Other Arty can't. Aside from like, Herne and Jonne.

So real threat ranges go Chaingun (10), then Thumper, RevCannon and Stormtower (14).

[mrhuettel]

assault commandos: i have to admit - i like 'em. they fill a role that we currently cannot properly fill - with their mat and a nice buff by finn (desperate pace with veteran leader) they should be able to take down quite a bit of infantry. if they'd not get assault as an order on their (upcoming? who knows?) unit attachment, i'd be more than pleased. and: the scatter guns perfectly fit into a charge- blast - kill scheme.

go trenchers!

for the lightning tower - that could be a nice piece of artillery - hitting 2 to 4 enemy troopers or a jack with additional troopers (take THAT, mechaniks!) is nice and puts the trencher chain gun completely back to the "suppressing fire only". i'm in for it - and make it a double (it's perfect themewise!)

[Typhael]

Not that I don't think this Storm tower is going to kick ***, but the Bloat is a different case. It can move while firing. Other Arty can't. Aside from like, Herne and Jonne.

So real threat ranges go Chaingun (10), then Thumper, RevCannon and Stormtower (14).

That's fair. :) On the other hand, the Bloat doesn't get the benefit of aiming/target-finding (I'm equating them here) if it moves, so a little something is gained, and a little something is lost.

Even so, 14" is *nothing* to sneeze at. I don't see the problem.

[Arkady]

NQ 28, prepare to be fed blues:

Trencher Commandos:

Stats of Trenchers +1 MAT, 6/10 pts

POW 9 knives, POW 10, RNG 10 guns, POW 12, RNG 6 AOE 3 Grenades (Grenades have Cumbersome)

Anatomical Precision, Advanced Deploy, Stealth
Hmm... seems like a decent anti-light infantry melee unit with some guns to fall back on. Stealth is nice, but if they have the same DEF stat as Trenchers, they will not survive long being close to the enemy. The grenades suck... more POW6, whoopteedoo.


Not sure if those 10 points can't be better spent on dedicated melee troops that can kill hard stuff, as well as light stuff. I suppose if Finn gets changed at all (if he's the archtypical commando, how come he doesn't have stealth?), they may be worthwhile, but then you're devoting 13 points to a unit with very narrow use.

At first glance, I'm unimpressed.


The Cygner storm tower is also present, see the concept art in NQ 27 for the idea.

2 person light artillery, with all the rules trimmings such as range finder, light artillery, gunner etc etc. 2 points

Rng 14, POW 14 lightning bolts (RAT 5/7) with d3 arcs and crit disruption.
Hmm, not too shabby for only 2 points. The range is kind of iffy (but acceptable since we can shoot our own stuff), and it's surprising that disruption is only critical, but I'll take it. Would a Stormclad still be disrupted on a critical even though he's immune to the damage?

Were there no spoilers for the Stormnoun solo guy?

[Dyoria]

Anatomical Precision means they kill high arm infantry just as easy as low arm ones. Actually, since heavily armored infantry tend to have lower Def then lightly armored inf, the Trencher Commandos will have an easier time killing them.

If you meant killing off medium based infantry, well thats what the hunter and charger are for. :)

BTW when are we going to get some? Khador is on its third med based inf unit and we have still not seen one. (same with retribution).

[GunMageinTraining]

Retribution probably will some day, it's doubtful we'll ever get Storm-Style MoWs, though the third model in the preview in the old NQ the Stormguardish looking model with massive armor and the gun/coil/blade thingy might be medium size, but doubtful.

[Chuck B]

Anatomical Precision means they kill high arm infantry just as easy as low arm ones. Actually, since heavily armored infantry tend to have lower Def then lightly armored inf, the Trencher Commandos will have an easier time killing them.

If you meant killing off medium based infantry, well thats what the hunter and charger are for. :)

BTW when are we going to get some? Khador is on its third med based inf unit and we have still not seen one. (same with retribution).

I don't think medium based Inf is something we'll ever see, like Khador and arc-nods. But seeing how they got a 3rd MoW unit, it makes me hope that the Stormnoun guy we all know about is not actually a new guy but a new ranged based stormnoun unit :D

[Arkady]

Anatomical Precision means they kill high arm infantry just as easy as low arm ones. Actually, since heavily armored infantry tend to have lower Def then lightly armored inf, the Trencher Commandos will have an easier time killing them.

If you meant killing off medium based infantry, well thats what the hunter and charger are for. :)

BTW when are we going to get some? Khador is on its third med based inf unit and we have still not seen one. (same with retribution).

I meant anything with multiple wounds. Please, don't bring up the hunter, that thing is terrible for its cost.

[mrhuettel]

the MOW are getting bombadiers - an ranged unit, i guess, have not seen the nq yet.

[Bobby Hostile]

I'm happy with both of our new toys. I loves me some Trenchers. The fact that my favorite unit is getting another "version" makes me very happy.

IMHO, the Storm-whatever is our best Arty piece. RNG 14 is just as good as the Cannon and d3 arcs is better than the POW 7 3" AOE with the new formation rules. Add in a decent crit effect that we can have a decent chance at triggering (Deadeye) and I'm sold. Not to mention that you can Snipe plus a good selection of our own stuff can ignore hits from it. Plus it's cheap. Sorry, I can't see anything to gripe about with this addition to our arsenal.

[Bladestorm]

I see the grenades as a way for the commandos to land POW 12 hits when there is absolutely nothing better for them to do.

[TsavongLah]

That's fair. :) On the other hand, the Bloat doesn't get the benefit of aiming/target-finding (I'm equating them here) if it moves, so a little something is gained, and a little something is lost.

Even so, 14" is *nothing* to sneeze at. I don't see the problem.

We're Cygnar. Ranged combat is what we do. It should have been RNG16, or perhaps 15. Still, I'm pretty happy with it given that it only costs 2pts and we can field two.

[hackrune]

Sure, ranged combat is what we 'do' but that doesn't mean extreme long range.

Our longest-range unit is the Defender at RNG 16. That's only 2" more than the Stormsmith tower, and most of our guns go from RNG 10-12. Having artillery at 14" seems perfectly viable to me.

[Killionaire]

Sure, ranged combat is what we 'do' but that doesn't mean extreme long range.

Our longest-range unit is the Defender at RNG 16. That's only 2" more than the Stormsmith tower, and most of our guns go from RNG 10-12. Having artillery at 14" seems perfectly viable to me.

The Defender's threat range isn't 16. It's 21. Because Defenders can move an attack. While Trenchers have 16, Gun Mages have a nice 20.

14 inch stationary threat range is not treated the same way. Now, we have ways to get around this with a lightning bounce model, but it'd be good to keep this well in mind. It's partially why the Trencher Cannon and Chaingun are so bad.

[bouncymischa]

Honestly...it's not like most artillery has range in huge excess of 14". What's the problem?

(note: these numbers are from the pdf, not the new cards)
Cygnar - Trencher Cannon 15"
Cygnar - Chain Gun 10"
PoM - Sunburst 16"
Cryx - Bloat Thrall 12"
Cryx - Rev Cannon 14"
Khador - Mortar 20"
Trolls - Thumper 14"
Circle - Artillery? 0"
Skorne - Catapult 18"
Legion - Scather 15".

The Khador and Skorne artillery have always been "special cases" of sorts, since those factions generally specialize in up-close beatdowns, and need some sort of long-ranged support. As for the rest...really? You're being hamstrung? Did you want 18" on the artillery piece in the first place? How would that be even remotely reasonable?



People forget about the poor Sea Dog Deck Gun too. That thing's a PC 2 model with 14" range and a POW 13 attack, so our lightning-gun outclasses it. XD

I think RNG 14 is pretty fair for a PC 2 model. Not sure why people keep comparing it to PC 3 artillery...

[zephen18]

Just so people know, since it was asked but not answered, the arcs on the tower are POW 10. So POW 14, then d3 POW 10 arcs.

[Killionaire]

Wait, wait! The main hit of the tower does a POW14? That's surprisingly good. I was going to be content with it doing POW10 + d3 bounces.

[Ysthrall]

Yes indeed.

My main opponents at my LGS are menites, so with the new distributed choir, I think I'm going to be getting a lot of use out of this. At 2 points, even if I never use it, he'll be singing "no shooting" all the way....

For that matter, zapping stealthy little buggers using our stormsnmiths as lightning rods might also be fun :)

Would be nice if they acted as a 4th point for Triangulate etc. Ah well :)

Trencher commandos... not bothered, really. I'll want to see how they do in play.

[iknowinternet]

Overall?
Heavily psyched about BOTH of these badboys. I've been wanting 4 things for Cygnar:
- Decent artillery (CHECK)
- Low-cost Multiwound Storm-o-Wars (One can still dream)
- Stealth unit (CHECK)
- Extra sprays (CHECK IN THE SAME UNIT)

3 out of 4 seems great.

And the B13 stayed 4 points... what's not to love?

[Jice_]

Maybe it's just me, But wouldn't snipe add to the range of Commando's grenades as well? At Range 6 not great, but @ Range 10 there's some potential there, and anyone not tossing a grenade at least gets a RNG 14 POW 10. Seems like a really solid unit for snipe.

I don't know, I wasn't really planning on useing them at all, but they are pretty exciting and different as a Cygnar unit.

[Typhael]

Overall?

And the B13 stayed 4 points... what's not to love?

Case in point? This. ;)

[DarkWonderer]

Trenchers Commando: Well... the only exciting part for me is stealth. They're very specialised as living 1 wound infantry killers and we can allready do that pretty well. I will wait to see how others fare with them before I think of buying them.


Stromsmith Tower: Hmm... :) Pretty cool. I might consider buying it even tough I don't like stationary firing platforms... unless the model costs as much money as Trenchers Cannon.

[Lazlo]

Does anyone know how the arcs are worded? Are they like Chain Lightning arcs, or like Ashes to Ashes? And at what distance?

[Manse]

Please tell me it's got an FA of two. Just think, we'll be able to bounce the electro-leaps off of stormstuff to hit stealthed things with mini-chain lightning.

Sounds solid to me. It's not exactly hard to hit a stormnoun in the back to get to tag 1-3 higher def targets. I can definitely see times when that could be the best shot.

Heck, with proper spacing you can 14" to your stormnoun, 4" further to the nearest unit, and potentially two more 4" after that. Granted in most circumstances you're not going to be thrashing your opponent's deployment zone, but still that's a bit of threat. For 2 points count me in.

[The Glen]

Overall?
Heavily psyched about BOTH of these badboys. I've been wanting 4 things for Cygnar:
- Decent artillery (CHECK)
- Low-cost Multiwound Storm-o-Wars (One can still dream)
- Stealth unit (CHECK)
- Extra sprays (CHECK IN THE SAME UNIT)

3 out of 4 seems great.

And the B13 stayed 4 points... what's not to love?

I don't think you'll ever get #2. Or just cheap, or just multiwound. It's not our style it seems. Or our lot.

[iknowinternet]

I don't think you'll ever get #2. Or just cheap, or just multiwound. It's not our style it seems. Or our lot.

But that's the lovely thing about dreams... they don't have to be remotely realistic.

[otakud00d]

Khador already posted some changes from the early Faction Decks. Step it up, swans!

[Defenstrator]

Just picked up the NQ. The Tower is FA2, causes and is immune to electricity, has the now typical RAT 5 +2 with Grunt B2B, it Crit Disrupts, and the d3 bounces after the POW 14 hit are just like Chain Lightning. Has the usual Light Artillery rules.

What I find interesting is the Tactical Tip. ".... Damage from Lightning Generator strikes is not considered to have come from a hit or by a melee or ranged attack."

I'm not sure why that's there or what it means. Does the tower act like Stormsmiths? It doesn't seem to as it's a regular attack not action. But why the weird clarification saying that it isn't counted as coming from a ranged attack when it is?

[Wayton]

Hopefully it means we can laugh when someone says: "Can't shoot me!"

[Techcasualty]

to neutralize abilities that would give the enemy a benefit from being hit.

[Galitlan]

Just picked up the NQ. The Tower is FA2, causes and is immune to electricity, has the now typical RAT 5 +2 with Grunt B2B, it Crit Disrupts, and the d3 bounces after the POW 14 hit are just like Chain Lightning. Has the usual Light Artillery rules.

What I find interesting is the Tactical Tip. ".... Damage from Lightning Generator strikes is not considered to have come from a hit or by a melee or ranged attack."

I'm not sure why that's there or what it means. Does the tower act like Stormsmiths? It doesn't seem to as it's a regular attack not action. But why the weird clarification saying that it isn't counted as coming from a ranged attack when it is?

Well it might be away to give the unit stormcalling without the skill. If they had just given it stormcalling then these things would be amazing with eNemo. Still I think they are really cool and will still find a place with Nemo. With the Firefly coming and the new stormnoun we saw in the last NQ the all lightning army is coming along well.

[TsavongLah]

What I find interesting is the Tactical Tip. ".... Damage from Lightning Generator strikes is not considered to have come from a hit or by a melee or ranged attack."

I'm not sure why that's there or what it means. Does the tower act like Stormsmiths? It doesn't seem to as it's a regular attack not action. But why the weird clarification saying that it isn't counted as coming from a ranged attack when it is?

Does the card have something like Magic Ability that differentiates the type of attack from a normal ranged attack? That might explain it; it can get past the Choir or other anti-ranged attack stuff.

[bouncymischa]

Trenchers Commando: Well... the only exciting part for me is stealth. They're very specialised as living 1 wound infantry killers and we can allready do that pretty well. I will wait to see how others fare with them before I think of buying them.


One of the things I've realized is that they could fill a rather interesting role in my current Trencher list. Right now I have Finn and the B13th in the list to help clean off anyone that runs their infantry up to engage my front line of Trenchers. The Commandos could definitely help with this job as well...

[sniggles]

I like trenchers and have alot of them (fun stuff mk 1) so, i guess the commandos are pretty cool, especially the stealth rule :). the storm-tower-deal, however, is just another artillery piece. Its a bit slow and good at defending, but i like attacks better than counter-attacks and i dont play many scenario games, neat that it has disruption though.

[Jice_]

One of the things I've realized is that they could fill a rather interesting role in my current Trencher list. Right now I have Finn and the B13th in the list to help clean off anyone that runs their infantry up to engage my front line of Trenchers. The Commandos could definitely help with this job as well...

Especially since with Stealth, as long as the other trenchers are 5" away, commando's would act like they had ranked attacks anyway.

[leo_neil316]

I see the grenades as a way for the commandos to land POW 12 hits when there is absolutely nothing better for them to do.

The grenades are really really odd. The commando's RAT is (apparently) trencher standard, that's not good enough to hit infantry reliably.

Which would be fine, yay scatter into enemies! Except you have to be so close that you've only got a couple inches play before you stand a very good chance of hitting your own trenchers with their own grenades O.o

And the threat range on them is only slightly longer than their charge range.

And then you can give your (stealthed MELEE UNIT) we assume sprays as a weapon attachment.

Are we sure they didn't have assault in there somewhere?

[Bladestorm]

Just picked up the NQ. The Tower is FA2, causes and is immune to electricity, has the now typical RAT 5 +2 with Grunt B2B, it Crit Disrupts, and the d3 bounces after the POW 14 hit are just like Chain Lightning. Has the usual Light Artillery rules.

What I find interesting is the Tactical Tip. ".... Damage from Lightning Generator strikes is not considered to have come from a hit or by a melee or ranged attack."

I'm not sure why that's there or what it means. Does the tower act like Stormsmiths? It doesn't seem to as it's a regular attack not action. But why the weird clarification saying that it isn't counted as coming from a ranged attack when it is?

Could they be referring to the leaps ?

[otakud00d]

It does. The shot itself is a regular ranged attack, but the leaps aren't anything.

[CyrDraconis]

I'm actually a tiny bit bummed that the Storm Tower doesn't have anything to do with Stormsmith solos, but it's probably for the best - it's great on its own for 2 points, and if the Firefly works like people are speculating, that'll cause enough of an uproar!

One of my local stores used to have the old GF9 terrain sets - I wonder if they still have the Cygnar one. There's a visual for you...

Ed. - anyone have the scenarios that came with those sets? They're long-gone from the GF9 site.

Ed. redux - application of a little Google...NQ14. I even have that issue.

[Higgen]

I'm pretty excited about these Trenchers. A unit with stealth and anatomical precision is highly potent against one wound infantry, of which there is always going to be some of on the field. If you can buff the grenades they become very respectable ranged attacks and they have the option that most melee troops don't have of backing off and shooting with their normal guns. Tack on what we presume to be a spray and these guys are about as dedicated anti-infantry as you can get. Which means I probably won't be fielding them with normal Trenchers as they are also pretty much dedicated anti-infantry along with some support. With the same price tag, fielding both units becomes a huge investment that I don't think makes for a competitive army. One thing's for certain. Finn's stock certainly shot up.

[Arkady]

Their problem as an anti-infantry unit akin to Daughters or Bloodrunners or Kayazy assassins is their lame DEF stat. Those units have crap armor too, but at least they have good DEF to compensate. With Trencher DEF, I'm skeptical about their ability to survive any attention once stuck in, and they are still quite hefty at 1 point per model. Are we positive they don't have assault for those grenades?

[Defenstrator]

My initial reaction was the same. The Kayazy, Bloodrunners etc have high enough DEF that they can run to the target and then start the killing next turn. But they have ranged attacks as well and are able to take a full 10 man unit. They're Trenchers, which means that even their specialists are generalists. They definately need back up for higher ARM though.

[Higgen]

Well, keep in mind that these Trenchers have the potential to charge .5" less than those two units can run. They also have +2 ARM over those other two units with a not-uncommon ability to get to +5 ARM. These stats are not going to save them once they are stuck in, but the higher defense on the other models doesn't make them that much harder to kill, either. Sure, Stealth has some hard counters, but they aren't that prolific that you need to worry overmuch about losing all your Commandos before they can do their job. I'm also pretty excited about those grenades. In my opinion they're a free option tacked on for versatility that is going to pay off in spades against things like Winter Guard and Mage Hunters. Chalk me up as a believer.

[leo_neil316]

Well, keep in mind that these Trenchers have the potential to charge .5" less than those two units can run. They also have +2 ARM over those other two units with a not-uncommon ability to get to +5 ARM. These stats are not going to save them once they are stuck in, but the higher defense on the other models doesn't make them that much harder to kill, either. Sure, Stealth has some hard counters, but they aren't that prolific that you need to worry overmuch about losing all your Commandos before they can do their job. I'm also pretty excited about those grenades. In my opinion they're a free option tacked on for versatility that is going to pay off in spades against things like Winter Guard and Mage Hunters. Chalk me up as a believer.

DEF is way better than ARM for single wound infantry once your in melee.

And the trenchers only charge '.5" less than those units run' if you take a solo you would -not- be taking otherwise and you forget that some of those units are faster either through higher speed, pathfinding or both.

Not to mention they can all -also- get speed boosts.

[Higgen]

Both of those units are SPD 6. Bloodrunners have Pathfinder base, Kayazy do not. Kayazy have Boundless charge, Weald Secrets, and eVlad's feat to make them go faster, although boundless charge is very unlikely to be used. The Bloodrunners have Savagery, Road to War, and Press Forward. Press Forward by itself decreases their threat range overall, but combined with Savagery it gives the largest threat range of the 3 units being compared.

So, no, I didn't forget that those units are faster than the Commandos and I'm not seeing the ubiquitous SPD buffs that you seem to. The Piper lost his 2" March for a reason, so the chance to gain it back by taking a solo that synergises well with the unit he's buffing should not be sneered at. Yes, it is expensive, but you don't need to take it all the time. It's a powerful option should you desire.

On a final note, yes, DEF is better than ARM when stuck in, but +2 ARM is not insignificant on the approach. Many times an AoE would kill an ARM 11 that would not penetrate ARM 13. Not to mention that we have many options that incidentally buff that ARM even higher.

[Sevwall]

The commados have guns. This shouldn't be forgotten.

[Dino-Czar]

And grenades. Their ranged options are an odd mix, and I really wish the grenades had been a (weak) anti-armor option. As of now I have no real idea what to use 'em on. Popping holes in shield walls maybe?