I am perfectly happy with Mk2.

[Ganmeyde]

Given all the negativity about "last minute changes" and "falling skies", I figured we need a thread for those of us who like the new format.

For me, I enjoy:


Epics in any point level (I barely ever played 750, so now my eSevvy will see some use!)
Jacks are back! (I love seeing big metal monsters on the field, and infantrymachine is still viable for those who enjoyed that, despite what some people say. It's just not quite as powerful as a combined-arms approach.)
The new points system (I no longer need a calculator just to put together a 500 point army)
Rebalanced units (autoincludes are not totally gone, but you see much more varied lists now. And many previously unused units were recosted or buffed)
Themed lists (We haven't even seen them yet, but I enjoy the fluffy elements of the game, so fielding Kreoss and his personal posse of exemplars, or Feora's Flameguard holds a fair bit of appeal to me.)

[Garth]

Yes, MK II is a great game. A lot of things are better now. But what do we know about MK II ? We know the old stats from the "final" rules. In a few weeks we will finally see if the rules are still great...

[Ganmeyde]

Yes, MK II is a great game. A lot of things are better now. But what do we know about MK II ? We know the old stats from the "final" rules. In a few weeks we will finally see if the rules are still great...
We've had one spell changed into an upkeep with a much more badass name.

I'm shaking in my boots, here. ;)

[Aries37]

Yes, MK II is a great game. A lot of things are better now. But what do we know about MK II ? We know the old stats from the "final" rules. In a few weeks we will finally see if the rules are still great...
You know they won't nerf anything major. It took an epic 12 page thread just to get rebuke to go sideways. The biggest nerf was bloodgorgers who PP notified Cryx about. The prime book is out and there are 3 buffs with no nerfs.

If even the Broke 13th get to stay at 4 points I think it's a safe bet that Menoth stays at faction #1 for mk2. Calm down, your easymode will still be there :p

[maciak]

We've had one spell changed into an upkeep with a much more badass name.

I'm shaking in my boots, here. ;)

But you can't be sure there are no other changes, can you?

[Invader Larb]

We're going to be fine. We're just as likely to see a few small boosts like the Sentinel change as we are to have changes like Rebuke.

Don't get too mired in our own individual models. Remember how incredible the core rules changes are. Remember how Shadowshift is gone and eVlad was toned down. Remember what Temporal Barrier used to do versus what it does now.

[Soylent]

I think the changes are fine and we'll play like we have been for the past few months.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

But you can't be sure there are no other changes, can you?

But you can't be sure they are going to release the cards can you?

[Soylent]

But you can't be sure they are going to release the cards can you?


Play nice ;)

[Ganmeyde]

But you can't be sure there are no other changes, can you? Nope, and that's a good thing. People will rethink lists, tweak their armies, and change their strategies to compensate for minor changes. You won't be able to run everything the same exact way as you did in the field test, which adds a bit more variety to the game. I'm anxious to see what changes happened, because buffs are just as possible as nerfs or sidegrades. Ask the Sentinel!

If you want every rule set in stone forever, then perhaps wargaming is not for you.

[Warpriest]

The thing that bothers me most, which is pretty trivial, is the recommended points levels. 100 points before you can officially use 2 casters is too high. I'm sure we'll play some 2 caster games at 70-75 points.

[Ganmeyde]

The thing that bothers me most, which is pretty trivial, is the recommended points levels. 100 points before you can officially use 2 casters is too high. I'm sure we'll play some 2 caster games at 70-75 points.
My LGS will probably do the same, but people already run different point values than the recommended levels. Two Caster 70 is no different than the old 500 point with Epic Caster games some people used to play.

[darisus]

Getting rid of invisibility was great. Toneing down out of turn movement, superb. Actually letting Protectorate have a chance, genius.

All in all i love the mk2 changes as games are faster less confusing and i can actually use epic casters, as getting a 750 game in my local meta was really hard.

[maciak]

Well...

It will be two very long weeks before the MK2 decks show up.

They changed Harbi. My question is - what else? Covenant went 2 points up? Or did he lost it's "no-knockdown" ability? Or maybe Vanq lost fire under template? Or Vassal got nerf?


PP did say about that cryx unit nerf, but didn't about Sentinel or Trenchers boost. So I thought our stuff is safe. Nothing is gonna to be nerf and maybe we'll see some good changes, like cygnar in MK2 Prime.

[Loveless]

To answer maciak a bit:



On sidenotes. The vassal...did not change. Nor did the covenant of menoth. Still 2 very strong pieces.

[paradox]

Faster games.
More jacks.
Easier time adding points.
Cleaner rules (for now).

[MenothJohn]

Faster games.
More jacks.
Easier time adding points.
Cleaner rules (for now).

Aaaaaameeeeennnnnnn (sang in a chanting way)

[Yertle4]

What faithless people we are.

[Invader Larb]

Don't forget Paradox - more Vanquisher!

[Loveless]

Don't forget Paradox - more Vanquisher!

Mmm...Vanquisher...

Actually, I think I'm happy about all of our 'jacks, really. There isn't a one I would never use. With the potential exception of the Avatar, they're all quick to comprehend and tend to be full of fun little rules - even in streamlined Mk. II.

[SnakeEyes]

I love that our faction took the biggest paradigm shift in design and we as Protctorate players embraced it and have excelled with it. We went from a heavily infantrymachine faction in Mk. I to utilizing jacks more heavily more than any other faction in Mk. II.

I love the fact that our faction has embraced what Mk. II was meant to address - more jacks. Of course, it's by design - our jacks are good, our support is great, and our infantry is just adequate. But we really have rolled with it. I've been playing a bit of Cryx lately and it feels kind of "Mk. I'ish" with a heavier reliance on infantry. It's old school. The Protectorate is new school.

[paradox]

We went from a heavily infantrymachine faction in Mk. I
Speak for yourself. :P

[jandrese]

You know, the funny thing is that I use just as many jacks in Mk II as I did in Mk I. I've always been a fan of combined forces. The only difference is that I'm more likely to take a Vanquisher or a Reckoner over a Castigator or a Guardian these days.

[Warpriest]

Back in the early days of '03, Menoth wasn't considered a troop heavy army. The jack wall backed up by 1 or more choirs and some infantry was the accepted standard.

I remember when I proposed an all troop army with The High Reclaimer, it was a radical idea. I never played an army like that, I've always preferred having at least 2 jacks, but it became pretty standard in later years.

So really, MK 2 Menoth is making the actual Old school style of play viable again, multiple jacks with supporting infantry.

[Lanz]

I find that I'm much heavier infantry now than before, and it's exactly because the 'jacks are better that fewer are needed. I can have fewer 'jacks, and more focus on the 'jacks themselves, because they do their jobs quite reliably. It also makes taking the character 'jacks that much more practical, so for the most part, I just run the warcaster with 2-3 'jacks depending on who the caster is at 35 pts. The rest is support, and exemplar.

[Warpriest]

2-3 jacks is jack heavy compared to what worked the best in Mk 1.

[Lanz]

In mk1, my 500pt tournament list was 4jacks, warcaster, support elements, solos. It was devout-heavy though, which is a different matter in and of itself. Mk1 was terribly one-sided. Either super-heavy infantry, or super-heavy 'jacks. It's more balanced now, an army does best with a balance of both troops and 'jacks.