Trying to figure out Kossite Woodsmen...

[tedwin183]

I have heard from several sources that they are pretty good in MKII. I like the idea of them and they're a pretty cheap squad to buy...I'm just having trouble seeing how they can be effective...

[almond]

They ambush squishy support units that like to hang out in the back of the army.

They might cause your opponent to bunch up his army in the middle, steering clear from the edges.

They tie up troublesome models by engaging them in melee.

They screw up charge lanes to your important units/'jacks/caster.

They make your opponent question your logic in even fielding them in the first place.

But really, mostly because they got a bump in their stats. And they're cheap.

Just don't expect them to be awesome gods of war. That's what Beast-09 is for.

[thrasymacus]

Had them fail miserably the other day.

They ambushed a Journeyman and his Charger. I chose to make melee attacks with 4 of them, but only three were able to get the back strike. The other two went for a Stormsmith and the Charger as they couldn't get to the Journeyman.

I missed with all but one Kossite and only did 2 points of damage. Killed the storm smith, but other wise all they did for the rest of the game was slowly die to the Journeyman and the Charger. Still, 4 points killed 1 guy and tied up 7 points. That's actually pretty good.

[Gnoa]

Had them fail miserably the other day.

They ambushed a Journeyman and his Charger. I chose to make melee attacks with 4 of them, but only three were able to get the back strike. The other two went for a Stormsmith and the Charger as they couldn't get to the Journeyman.

I missed with all but one Kossite and only did 2 points of damage. Killed the storm smith, but other wise all they did for the rest of the game was slowly die to the Journeyman and the Charger. Still, 4 points killed 1 guy and tied up 7 points. That's actually pretty good.

I think that is kind of key. It is like Almond said, they are not awesome gods of war now...the biggest change is they are more survivable and make excellent harassment tools. I would put them in the same category as Reavers (forgive me!)...it is all about how you deploy them and how much luck you get from the back strike.

Right now i have them in two lists:
Karchev - because it is funny watching them get ignored as Karchev and the three amigos (Behemoth, Berserker, Berserker) charge right at the enemies.

eIrusk - a) because a Kossite with tough is just hilarious b) they help drive the enemy into my mortar lanes.

[Khador247]

I played a MKII game with them where they killed 8 out of 10 Steelheads on their ambush turn with shooting. They killed the other 2 in melee in the next turn.

I think the keys with them are 1. make sure you shoot stuff in the back and 2. stick to attacking single wound models with them or at least lightly armored 5 hit point solos.

[whats82]

You have to go after soft targets. Jr at 14/15 or 14/16 is NOT a soft target, neither is a charger.

Support unit/solo, artillery pieces, choir, vassal, that kind of thing. 2pt solo that's easy to hit are their favourite targets as they can semi-reliably earn their costs back.

[itcamefromthedeep]

Covenant hunters right there, methinks. Lots of pings are what you want to deal with a sucker that usually takes at least 5 hits to kill.

Hitting the back of a shieldwall would be nice.

Running into melée with the back of a warjack could ruin its day. Nobody likes taking free strikes from anyone. Destroyers might not mind, and neither might a Centurion with arcane shield, but even Eiryss doesn't want to risk one of those Kossites rolling a 9 to hit.

[thrasymacus]

I just tend to roll abysmally with my kossites. With the Reform rule, shooting might be the way to go now. You get more back strikes, with less chance to hit, but more opportunities. No charge bonus, but POW 10 is decent. If only they had the Assault & Battery rule I wouldn't have to decide. Then I could simply miss with both attacks!

[whats82]

To describe their performance as a distribution, it would stretch from useless(at worst) to above average (at best), with the biggest chance sitting at below average. Relative to their points of course.

What that means is most of our other choices which consistently perform average or above average will always be chosen first in a competitive environment. Play for fun, sure, but they don't have what it takes to make a good player concerned.

[thrasymacus]

I agree. I'm amazed how many ppl will neglect to simply tilt their sideline dudes at an angle to deny me back strikes. That's all it takes totally cripple kossites. You basically just have to look at them and they fail.

[Shadow37]

I agree. I'm amazed how many ppl will neglect to simply tilt their sideline dudes at an angle to deny me back strikes. That's all it takes totally cripple kossites. You basically just have to look at them and they fail.

You also have to understand that their strength also lies in their ability to make your opponent go in the opposite direction.

As a Khador player how would you deal with a unit of Kossites in your back ranks? If a good opponent is putting pressure on my front ranks I will be very hard pressed to allocate resources to take out the Kossite threat.

[whats82]

But that good opponent is putting less pressure on my front because he's 4 or 6 points short !

[thrasymacus]

If Kossites is in my bases spanking my support dudez I'd actually use my Mortar and Field Gun crew to gun them down, possibly the mortar field gun as well...at close range it will probably hit. DEF 12 on the Kossites is easily hittable even by gun crews.

One other thing I ran into when trying to ambush the Journeyman was that I had 4 Doomreavers waiting to assist (the original target of the Charger) but I didn't want to abominate my own Kossites as they're only CMD 7.