Gator Tossing?

[wildhermit]

Hello all. I have been lurking on the forums for about a month now and just now joined, second post as you can see. I have read the "getting started" post and have ironed out most of my rule questions, list choices.

My question is this? I have seen numerous people mention throwing your own gators, or gator tossing? I guess I am missing something, as my son and I just now got into Hordes/Warmachines. I have read the book and the Blackhide Wrastler listing over and over. I have searched here..

How do you throw your own gator? Is this a "faction wide" rule that I missed? I am pretty certain that I bought the current codex as the points are MKII range and not the old MKI range.

Any help would be appreciated...

[thag-rush]

It's the wrastlers animus, rise. It allows us to throw a model and then use the animus to rise it before it activates.

[TinRobot]

Gator throwing is pretty much a minion specific "tactic" due to the animus rise and the gator's ability wrastle. Basically what you do is take one of your heavies be it a wrastler or an ironback spitter and two handed throw another wrastler of yours. You can then use the rise animus from either your Warlock, the blackhide wrastler who threw him or the wrastler that was thrown. The thrown wrastler is able to use the animus due to the wrastle special ability and then can activate normally.

But to sum it up use a heavy to throw another heavy in your army and then use rise to stand it up so it can activate normally.

[thag-rush]

Or throw your caster if you're feeling lucky... ;)

[LeSquide]

Or throw your caster if you're feeling lucky... ;)

I recently got a Warlock kill on pMorghoul by doing this; tossed Barnabas through a stand of forest, picked him up with the animus, and then a feat, a few gator attacks, and it was all over.

[mr_tibbs]

I too have never used this ability and enthralled about how players are using it...

So can you throw a Snapper?

When you say Warlock, do you mean that a warlock can use the animus because the beast is in its battlegroup (as Barny and Calaban do not have Rise...)?

Also was there any errata to do with the throw/rise like the thrown creature can not cast rise on itself after being flung?

Apologies for the questions and a great topic to raise Wild Hermit

:O)

[wildhermit]

Ah I see now.

My mistake was that I did not realize that you could throw your own unit.

Thanks for the speedy reply.

[GlassJaw]

So can you throw a Snapper?

Yes.


When you say Warlock, do you mean that a warlock can use the animus because the beast is in its battlegroup (as Barny and Calaban do not have Rise...)?

Yes.

The thing to remember though is that the Wrastler can use its animus while it is knocked down (it's the only model in the game as far as I know). If you throw your caster (or anything else), you need another model that can cast Rise to stand the thrown model up.

If you throw a Wrastler, it gets knocked down. Per Prime/Primal, a model that is knocked down can't stand up until its next turn. However, that model still activates. So in the case of a thrown Wrastler, it can activate, use its animus to immediately stand up, and then activate normally.


Also was there any errata to do with the throw/rise like the thrown creature can not cast rise on itself after being flung?

No. The errata was due to the original preview in NQ. The errata made Rise Faction only.

[warlorddrax]

because Molik needed a nerf...

[Space Donkey]

Oh I remember those wonderful cries of DOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!1

[wildhermit]

Ok... One more series of questions just to clarify...

If I had Wrastler A and Wrastler B. A wants to throw B. Would A have to make an "attack" on B? Would it be possible to miss B? Or, would this be a "free" attack that hits automatically?

Thanks for baring with me here, brand new to game...

[loftybloke]

Ok... One more series of questions just to clarify...

If I had Wrastler A and Wrastler B. A wants to throw B. Would A have to make an "attack" on B? Would it be possible to miss B? Or, would this be a "free" attack that hits automatically?

Thanks for baring with me here, brand new to game...

Throwing models always requires a "to hit" to pick them up and a passed opposing strenght check (for the throwing model) in order to then throw the target. Regardless of enemy/friendly

[GlassJaw]

If I had Wrastler A and Wrastler B. A wants to throw B. Would A have to make an "attack" on B? Would it be possible to miss B? Or, would this be a "free" attack that hits automatically?

Yes, you have to make an attack. If you want to set this up, one trick is to keep one Wrastler behind the other to get the +2 back arc bonus to your attack roll.

[khadoran wargod]

activating them in the right order is the tricksies business for the back arc bonus and being able to cast rise on model x. the nice thing is that since the model will go the strength of the model halved (12/2=6"), you should still be able to cast rise on the thrown model with the throwing gator, keeping your caster's activation in case something else goes wrong. I really like this idea...gator bombs!!

[GlassJaw]

the nice thing is that since the model will go the strength of the model halved (12/2=6"), you should still be able to cast rise on the thrown model with the throwing gator

You still have a good chance to get a deviation that will put it out of range. Unless of course you throw the Wrastler at a target within 6" and hit (like a Feralgeist).

The thrown Wrastler can always use Rise on itself if it's out of range as well.

[ChristopherY]

I have been wondering about this tactic as well, having heard about it on the various podcasts as well as here on the forum. I am assuming the thrown friendly still takes full damage or is there a way to ameliorate this? I'm still a total newbie so forgive me if I've missed an obvious rule...

[LiamPiver]

No but it's a PS 12 damage roll so it's not really going to do much to a Wrestler or the casters due to their armor or transfers if it just happens to roll really well.

[dboeren]

You still take damage from being thrown but it's generally negligible. Couple of points maybe. You're talking about a POW equal to the throwing model's strength versus the thrown model's ARM. The thrown model is generally a Wrastler or your warlock, both of whom have reasonable good ARM compared to the STR. I think Wrastlers are STR 11? Anyway, maybe a couple of points but I wouldn't worry about it compared to the gains you're going to make if you're considering this tactic.

[GlassJaw]

Wrastlers are STR 12.

Cast Spiny Growth first on whatever you are throwing. If it's a Wrastler, that's ARM 21, which is dice -9 if thrown by another Wrastler.

[LACK OF SUBTLETY]

Wrastlers are STR 12.

Cast Spiny Growth first on whatever you are throwing. If it's a Wrastler, that's ARM 21, which is dice -9 if thrown by another Wrastler.

Of course, the throwing model will take 1d3 in this case. Still often worth it.

[Duckboy]

So the key to this throwing is Double Hand throwing at Feralgeist (because they take no damage from the attack), I double hand threw barnabas twice (with two different wrastlers) at two feralgeist up field and stood barnabas up, popped feat and proceeded to kill strakhov.

[FiddyBucks]

The thrown wrastler is able to use the animus due to the wrastle special ability and then can activate normally.
Does this still work? in second hardcore (at lock n load) it was ruled against a gator player saying that because the wrastler was knocked down he had to give up his movement or action still... After reading his card it seem like he should be able to use it but I was looking for an erratta and I cant find one.

[GlassJaw]

Does this still work? in second hardcore (at lock n load) it was ruled against a gator player saying that because the wrastler was knocked down he had to give up his movement or action still... After reading his card it seem like he should be able to use it but I was looking for an erratta and I cant find one.

That ruling was incorrect. A knocked down model - even one knocked down on its own turn - still activates. Normally, a model knocked down on its own turn can't do anything, even though it still technically activates.

The Wrastler's ability allows it to use its animus while knocked down. So at the beginning of its activation, it simply uses its animus and immediately stands up.

That ruling was doubly wrong because again, a model knocked down during its own turn normally can't stand up at all, but it still activates.

[ozmo]

That ruling was incorrect. A knocked down model - even one knocked down on its own turn - still activates. Normally, a model knocked down on its own turn can't do anything, even though it still technically activates.

The Wrastler's ability allows it to use its animus while knocked down. So at the beginning of its activation, it simply uses its animus and immediately stands up.

That ruling was doubly wrong because again, a model knocked down during its own turn normally can't stand up at all, but it still activates.

To confirm then,
A wrastler can raise itself after being tossed?

If that is the case why do folks run 2 wrastlers , instead of 1 turtle? Is it just a strength thing?

[Wispur]

To confirm then,
A wrastler can raise itself after being tossed?

If that is the case why do folks run 2 wrastlers , instead of 1 turtle? Is it just a strength thing?

Yes.
The Wrastler's Wrastle rule specifically says it may use it's Animus even if knocked down.
Nowhere in the rulebook does it say that you must skip your activation if knocked down on your turn, it just says you cannot normally stand up on the same turn you were knocked down (but the animus skips that).

As far as running two Blackhides, to my understanding it's partially because Blackhides are our best beast at breaking through armor, but also so that you can have the tossing gator raise his friend and save yourself some Fury on the attacker.

[GlassJaw]

If that is the case why do folks run 2 wrastlers , instead of 1 turtle? Is it just a strength thing?

As Wispur said, Wrastlers are the best option Barnabas has for dealing with armor. I also find having 2 Wrastlers make it easier to setup the throw and conserves fury.

Plus, if you throw your Wrastler and get a bad deviation, it could land farther than 6" away. But I also try to bring along a Feralgeist to mitigate that.

[StompyStomp]

OH MY WORD! That Gator player was me! I would have been in the hardcore finals!!!! ARGH!!!!

I was 2-0, then lost in the 3rd round... anyone got a link confirming this ruling?

[StompyStomp]

Confirmed it myself, thanks to GlassJaw: http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?62558-model-knocked-down-during-its-own-turn-does-it-still-activate&highlight=rise%2C+animus

[Thamarite Merc]

So the key to this throwing is Double Hand throwing at Feralgeist (because they take no damage from the attack), I double hand threw barnabas twice (with two different wrastlers) at two feralgeist up field and stood barnabas up, popped feat and proceeded to kill strakhov.

Unless I am mistaken, you don't need the Feralgeist, as you technically don't throw AT something, but INTO a direction of your choice. If some stuff happens to be in that direction and within 1/2 STR range, it will get hit, but its totally legal to throw into empty space.

[GlassJaw]

Unless I am mistaken, you don't need the Feralgeist, as you technically don't throw AT something, but INTO a direction of your choice. If some stuff happens to be in that direction and within 1/2 STR range, it will get hit, but its totally legal to throw into empty space.

The Feralgeist is so your Wrastler (or whatever you are throwing) lands exactly where you want it to. If you throw in a general direction, it will deviate, which can screw you up if you get a bad roll. I learned my lesson early on when I threw my Wrastler and it hit the side of a building after a bad deviation.

[Woldwrath]

Confirmed it myself, thanks to GlassJaw: http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?62558-model-knocked-down-during-its-own-turn-does-it-still-activate&highlight=rise%2C+animus
Ouch man, you'd think such a large PP event would have judges more keen on rules and FAQ's....that's gota sting.