Place safe bets here.

[wazatdingder]

I am finding myself pretty anxious to get my hands on Thyra. Honestly, a girl hasn't got me this worked up since Freshman Homecoming, and that was a while ago. I wanted to open a thread where we can make "safe" predictions on her and her tier to hold me over until I can get her in my hands.

First of, FOCUS. There seems to be a trend of assault oriented models being 5 so I am assuming the worst here. This means she will also have a rather short spell list. Most are looking for stealth in some form. I doubt this, Menoth is the faction that deals with stealth, not the one that has it. I'm sure somewhere there is a list of things somewhere that each faction should never have, Stealth is at the top of ours. Flashing Blades may show up here, and hopefully some sort of free charge for battle group as well as a Knock Down protection spell.

We know she gives Daughters some form of Vengence, which means she already has it too, most likely. I'm cool with this, Daughters often end up running to engage and hoping for the best, this helps there and with "auto-ping" it helps cut down light infantry. Hopefully, as a Daughter, she has Acrobatics, which would make her sweet as an assassination caster.

Feat- I don't even want to pretend here, but a SPD and DEF buff would be sweet.

Tier- Obviously, Daughters should be FA U, beyond that, I am hoping to see a bit of the variety we get with eKreoss. Strong access to the elite close combat units, buffers not needed. I would like to see a list that can be easily swapped with eKreoss with minimal changes and some sort of Exemplar needs to be included to compliment the Daughters.

I don't feel this is hoping for to much, I am trying not to get to invested in these ideas, but I think they are reasonable.

[Alviaran]

I am guessing FOC 6. It won't be higher than that, but I just have a feeling they won't give us another 5. 5-6 is the norm for assassin casters. Five is kind of the exception though honestly. And even then, most 5 FOC casters have some way to extend that (Arcantrik Turbine, Sacrifical Lamb, etc.).

I'm guessing Acrobatics OR Perfect Balance. If she has neither I will be VERY surprised. Most likely Anatomical Precision. Much more and she starts getting dangerously close to pMorghoul.

My only real hope is to not be a FOC5. I can play, and really enjoy, 5 casters (pMorghoul and Xerxis being the top of that heap for me) but I just do not WANT one. 6 is annoying enough but I can understand it.

[Lanz]

I'm suspecting she will allign closer to models like Ashlynn and Garryth, than Morghoul.

[Bastion5]

I'm suspecting she will allign closer to models like Ashlynn and Garryth, than Morghoul.

This.

6 FOC

4-5 Spells. Hopefully DW, Ignite, Carnage, and a unique spell for her that boosts speeds hella fast.

She and BoM might AD, because why not. I'd like to see her AD actually, new is always good.

As far as a feat, I'd like to see something heavily in denial and speed. Maybe warrior models gain acrobatics and jacks gain parry, and everything gets +2 or +3 SPD.

[Sygerrik]

6 Focus. Carnage. Elite Cadre Daughters: Vengeance.
My guesses:
2x POW 11 Weaponmaster with Blessed/Arcane Assassin and/or Grievous Wounds
Acrobatics/Perfect Balance
No DW. Maybe Ignite. Hopefully Occultation.

I would be very surprised if she were FOC 5. There are a grand total of four casters with FOC 5 in the entire game and three of the four have ready access to more (HR, eHR, Karchev and Gorten).

[darisus]

Pretty sure focus 6. we know she has carnage, and elite cadre (daughters) vengance. Hoping for 3 more decent spells one most likely to be immolate or hexblast cause almost ever caster gets an offensive spell, could be convection... the other 2 will be some form of troop buff, but i doubt we get DW, i figure something that ignores blast damage on unit/model, maybe a suprise spell to buff speed on jacks, mobility maybe...escort would be kind of cool.

For inate abilities i can see her having parry, acrobatics and maybe even the one morghul has that lets you get 2 strikes for one focus and she better be spd7 and at least def 15 hoping for 16, and not super squishy in arm like amon. I would like to see her get def 16/ arm 15.

[Gavriel]

I doubt she'll have DW, that spell only seems to pop up on our support oriented casters. It would be pretty cool if she had Ashen veil or Holy Ward though, since those two give the daughters pretty much what you want out of DW. If I really wanted to get people's hopes up I'd suggest Ashlynn's Quicken, but that would just be broken beyond belief. (If a daughter died, the rest of the unit would have an effective charge range next turn of 15.5")

If she has focus 5 she will likely have something to make it worthwhile, but I would bet she would be focus 6, seeing as our focus 5 shtick is to collect souls.

[Razhem]

I wouldn't expect DW either. Ignite is a very real posibility, though I'd prefer to change things up. I'm also still hoping for occultation. Aside from that, I just hope she doesn't suck or isn't too bland (I'm in the Vindictus is bland camp, not that he sucks).

[delar]

I'll be extremly happy if she has Holy Ward unless we get a UA for the daughters that provides parry as a tactic. Then I'll settle for more offensive spells that buff a unit or model.

[marijnh]

We know she has Elite cadre: vengeance.
We know she can cast carnage.

I expect: 6 focus, 2x P+S 11 with anatomical precision and acrobatics.

What I hope: Occultation, True Path. That would be REDICULOUSLY Awesome.

[malfred]

My safe bet is that I will buy the model and paint it up before Gencon.

[wazatdingder]

My safe bet is that I will buy the model and paint it up before Gencon.

I was hoping to have time to practice as well :)

[Hashmal]

We know she can cast carnage.


We do? I missed that. NEAT.



I expect: 6 focus, 2x P+S 11 with anatomical precision and acrobatics.


The thing that makes Morghoul nasty with his low P+S is that he can generate a pretty insane number of attacks. What you've listed here just doesn't inspire me and makes me kind of wonder how, as an assassin, she'd deal with any target that actually has armor worth talking about. I wonder if she'll have Finisher on her swords.



What I hope: Occultation, True Path. That would be REDICULOUSLY Awesome.

Yeah. Yeah I'd like that.

[tzeentchling]

Foc 6. Weaponmaster P+S 9s, anatomical precision. Occultation, Carnage, Flagellation (or another similar spell that gives her the effects of Arcane Assassin or the other no-tough abilities). Spd 7, acrobatics. Feat that moves models around.

[malfred]

I was hoping to have time to practice as well :)

Dude. Title of the thread is SAFE bet.

[darisus]

I'll be extremly happy if she has Holy Ward unless we get a UA for the daughters that provides parry as a tactic. Then I'll settle for more offensive spells that buff a unit or model.

Parry would be useless as they already avoid freestrikes with acrobatics.

[zulu81]

17/13 defensive split maybe? Carnage is a given. Almost guarantee 6 focus. Speed 7 should be a given but amon is slower than his monky brethen so we shall see. I would say we are more likely to see Parry or Perfect Balance to Acrobatics (Acro or PB would be great, parry - meh). Probably 16 hit boxes. That is about all I feel SAFE predicting.

As to wild guesses and desires... I agree that DW is not likely. I think we will see and armour boost not a Def boost. Something like Inviolable Resolve. But if we get a defensive buff maybe Blur. Ignite does not feel like a fit to me as with carnage it maybe over the top. A speed buff on the feat would be much appreciated. Perhaps Sacrosanct? And instead of Occulation I want somthing like Shadowmancer or Shadow Pack. Stealth for battle group? Why thank you. I know it will not happen as stealth POM Heavies would be just riduclous but that is on the top of my wish list.

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

Spd 7, Def 17/ Arm 14, Mat 7, Acrobatics, 2xPow 11, Anatomical Precision

That is all I am going to say SAFELY

[SugarlessLlama]

I'm still thinking Weaponmaster on the swords. Most of the Assassination casters have it. Also this would make Thyra the ONLY Menite warcaster that is a weaponmaster. And for some reason I like the fluffy idea of Thrya looking over at Kreoss practicing with his spearmace thingie and shaking her head, "Amateur".

[Sygerrik]

We do? I missed that. NEAT.



The thing that makes Morghoul nasty with his low P+S is that he can generate a pretty insane number of attacks. What you've listed here just doesn't inspire me and makes me kind of wonder how, as an assassin, she'd deal with any target that actually has armor worth talking about. I wonder if she'll have Finisher on her swords.



Yeah. Yeah I'd like that.

Garryth has dual POW 11 Weaponmaster attacks with Grievous Wounds and Arcane Assassin, and he's pretty terrifyingly killy. If Thyra gets that I will be happy, especially if she has Sprint and/or Overtake. Sprint + Acrobatics is a very, very nice combo, so let's hope she gets both.

[Lanz]

She'll have Decapitation in some form. Either natural, crit, or a special ability.

[TheSanityAssassin]

Ok, so forgive my lack of knowledge of other faction spell lists, but what does Carnage do? Already owning a crap-ton of Daughters makes it a pretty sure bet that I'll be running Thyra regardless, but it's nice to start planning.

[Marius]

Carmage is +2 to melee attack rolls within CTRL area for friendly faction. Costs 3, isn't an upkeep and lasts for a turn (so you don't get it on free strikes etc).

She better not be a 5 focus caster with a spell like that or i think i might just replace my eyes with cream eggs and headbutt the pavement.

;)

[Cronix]

MKI eFeora +2 damage rolls for continuous effect fire, would be nice.

[Lanz]

Carmage is +2 to melee attack rolls within CTRL area for friendly faction. Costs 3, isn't an upkeep and lasts for a turn (so you don't get it on free strikes etc).

She better not be a 5 focus caster with a spell like that or i think i might just replace my eyes with cream eggs and headbutt the pavement.

;)

Just make sure you have a buddy film it and put it on youtube, then I'm fine with Thyra being Foc 5.

[Alviaran]

If they made a new spell that gives Force Barrier, it would be pretty awesome. +2 DEF against Ranged and immunity to Blasts on Daughters? YES PLEASE!

For spells, I expect Carnage, some offensive attack spell (because IIRC all casters get an offensive attack spell. There is probably a few, but none I can think off the top of my head without some kind of offensive spell, even if it is just a debuff), some kind of defensive buff spell (Holy Ward, a force barrier spell, Occultation, etc.) and MAYBE Ignite or some other mysterious fourth spell. I don't expect her to have more than four spells though. And if she had two upkeeps and Carnage with six focus, it gives her enough to upkeep and caster every turn with one to spare for a warjack to charge, which seems kind of par for the course.

I do know she is probably the first model with banners where I am actually considering letting her keep her banners.

[Razhem]

Carmage is +2 to melee attack rolls within CTRL area for friendly faction. Costs 3, isn't an upkeep and lasts for a turn (so you don't get it on free strikes etc).

Not exactly, it gives +2 to melee attacks WHEN attacking enemy models inside her ctrl area. It's still a solid spell, but it demands to be close to get any effect. The reason why I wish she could get the equivalent of Karn's animus on herself, she does her magic, carnages and at the end of the turn, retreats.

[darisus]

Admonition would be a nice spell to have for just such a thing...

[Lanz]

Admonition would be a nice spell to have for just such a thing...

Admonition + Enliven on the Avatar...

...

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Kyultu]

Admonition + Enliven on the Avatar...

...

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Damn battlegroup requirement.

[Lanz]

Damn battlegroup requirement.

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Not used to having a non-battlegroup 'jack eligible for it.

Oh well.

Admonition + Enliven on a Reckoner...

...

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[meleemadness]

Carmage is +2 to melee attack rolls within CTRL area for friendly faction. Costs 3, isn't an upkeep and lasts for a turn (so you don't get it on free strikes etc).

She better not be a 5 focus caster with a spell like that or i think i might just replace my eyes with cream eggs and headbutt the pavement.

;)

****!! I never heard that....btw, I didn't know what carnage was either.

[malfred]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Not used to having a non-battlegroup 'jack eligible for it.

Oh well.

Admonition + Enliven on a Reckoner...

...

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

On a Blood of Martyrs. I don't know what it does, either, but
a Dervish Crusader seems like a good target.

[Mr Gaspy]

SPeculation:

SPD 7
MAT 7
RAT 4
DEF 17
ARM 13
CMD : 9

wARJACK POINTS: +7
Damage: 16
FOCUS: 5

Feat: Warjack in battle group gains Acrobatis and pathfinder for a round.

WEAPONS
[2x] (None) POW: P+S: 11

Elite Cadre [Daughters of Flame] - Friendly DoF gain Vengeance
Acrobatics -
Anatomical precision

SPELLS:

1) New spell: COST 3 RNG: 6 UP : YES
Target model/unit in melee weapons gain Reach ICON and Continuos fire icon.

2) Blight Field

3) Sacrificial Lamb

4) Holy Ward

5) Convection

[Lanz]

Stats

Oh gawd I hope not.

[Marius]

stuff

Just letting you know, posting full stats is against the forum rules. I know Thyra's stats aren't her actual stats, but, the stats/rules for spells/abilities already in the game, such as Sac Lamb, Holy Ward, Acrobatics etc, are the actual rules.

Also, you need to label your post as wishlisting/homebrew, otherwise it could be taken as posting fake spoilers, which is another no-no.

[wazatdingder]

@Gaspy

While I appreciate your thoughts ideas, I hope you never become a designer (or maybe you are Mat Ward in disguise) :)

I kid. A few things though.
-Even our half naked casters have ARM14.
-Thyra is more than likely an infantry caster so the JPs and feat make no sense. Now if the feat was Friendly Faction models, it may have potential, but it is similar to Testy's and her elite units which should be a must include already have half that.
-The spells are almost laughable, she will probably have 3-4, 1 that is shooty and the rest UP and support. Your "new spell" is insane, and beyond that would NEVER be an upkeep. Blight Field- just no, doesn't seem right, she's not blighted. Sacrificial Lamb- While we do not know her fluff, I imagine she is not the sort of heartless character that would use this sort of spell.

Remember, We are looking for safe bets here, not wild speculation.

[jandrese]

Isn't the "new spell" just firey lightning tendrils? I don't see where it would be that far out of line.

I think there are some balance issues with the one posted, and it's the opposite of a safe bet given how caster design seems to work these days.

I think FOC 6 and 6 Jack Points are safe bets. MAT 6 would be unsurprising. SPD 7 is a distinct possibility. DEF 16 ARM 14 or DEF 16 ARM 15 both seem likely. I suspect that she has P+S 12 daggers, but they might be P+S 13 like Feora.

Holy ward would be an excellent spell on her, but I'm not banking on it. Carnage is pretty much confirmed and Elite Cadre: [Daughters] Vengeance seems to already be in the cards.

I don't know what attack spell she will have, but chances are I'll almost never use it, like most attack spells in the game. The rest of the spell list is a mystery, but I'm not expecting anything particularly good. If we have been especially good she might have Defenders Ward, but since Vindictus came with it I somehow doubt it.

[Moonblade]

Since Thyra and Feora are both Daughters, what similarities do you think we'll see between them?

So far it's just the twin daggers. Perhaps the FOC stat too.

[jandrese]

Feora isn't a Daughter, she's the head of the Flameguard order. She represents all Flameguard.

[Moonblade]

Yes, I thought she was a Daughter before that. You know, since she has no last name.

[wazatdingder]

Feora was a natural powerhouse since childhood. Her fluff says she was trained in the Incindium, while I don't know much more about that, I get the impression that it is far more elite and advanced than the desperate housewives that become daughters. She was an officer in training from the beginning.

[Sygerrik]

Feora was a natural powerhouse since childhood. Her fluff says she was trained in the Incindium, while I don't know much more about that, I get the impression that it is far more elite and advanced than the desperate housewives that become daughters. She was an officer in training from the beginning.

Absolutely love that quote.

"The Real Housewives of... Sul."

[Moonblade]

I also never see another female Flameguard other than Feora. But perhaps it's better suited for another topic than this one.

[wazatdingder]

It's amazing what a sports bra and executioners hood can do for gender identification.

[burninator]

I'm surprised no one else has said anything about this yet, in her fluff it states that she effortlessly travels between wordls, or something to that effect. So i believe she will have Soul Gate or something similar. Maybe 1 focus to teleport 6".

I think she will have Invaliable Resolve, arm buff plus give out fearless. Ignoring Carnage because it's a given.

After that, Foc 6, Spd 6, Def 16, Arm 14, 16 hitboxes. Feat will be something unexpected for her I think, or look kinda lame on paper but be sweet. HOPING for Acro, probably just parry though. Instead of AP, she'll have Grevious Wounds or Finisher.

[darisus]

I kepp thinking she will have finisher, as that seems to be the ability PP is handing out to everything lately. They tend to have that one rule they put in alot of models each wave/expansion.