New to Cygnar, starting with Kraye

[Rez]

Hey all. Ive been playing WMH for about a year now, and am currently playing Circle. I like to keep things fresh, so I want to do a small Cygnar force as a side project to my Circle armies. The model that really grabs me out of the Warcasters is undoubtedly Kraye. Probably one of my favourite models in the whole game, im dead keen on learning him.

So this is what im looking at for 25 points:

Kraye
- Stormclad
- Centurion
- Squire
Black 13th
Arlan
GMCA
Harlan Versh

Cygnar is pretty uncommon in my area for some reason (or I just dont seem to play the guys that have them), so im a bit unsure as to whats good in this faction. I had a read of the Kraye tactica, and it seems he wants a mix of melee and ranged jacks. 25 points obviously isnt ideal, so I figured I would focus on the assassination potential he has, and field a more balanced list at higher point levels.

For 35 points, I was looking at running this:

Kraye
- Stormclad
- Cyclone
- Hunter
- Squire
Gun Mages + UA
Black 13th
Arlan

So this list im a little unsure on. I guess the gameplan is to use the B13 and the Cyclone to funnel the infantry where I want them to go, while the Stormclad goes for the kill. Im not sure about the usefulness of the Gun Mages, but then again ive never used them and only faced them once. I was thinking of getting Thorn for them instead. Makes it a more assassination based list, but I think focus is a good thing. I read in the Kraye tactica someone recommending Thorn with Kraye, as you can have a 22" threat range on feat turn.

So yeah, any help here would be great. Would like to know if im on the right track with these lists before committing to buying anything. Cheers in advance. :)

[imweasel]

For the 25pt list I would simply recommend dumping the gmca for gorman.

After some play testing of my own, I don't like the cyclone with kraye. If you are going to keep the atgm+ua, have them marshall him. I just don't know if the atgm work well with kraye or not at 35pts.

[Rez]

Okay cool, cheers for the response. What is it about the Cyclone you dont like with Kraye? Without Covering Fire it seems like the list is really lacking for infantry control.

[Knarfy]

The Kraye list I ran for a while was:

Kraye +6
Centurion 9
Cyclone 9
Hunter 6
Sentinel 4
Squire 2
10 Sword Knights 6
Journeyman Warcaster 3
Arlan Strangewayes 2

The Journeyman tosses an Arcane shield on the Sword Knights, making them a big pile of def 13/arm 19 doods. That, plus the cyclone gives some decent board control. The Sentinel helps with kraye getting shot in the face, as well as being able to light cav around and chaingun things. I like Centurions, and full tilt allows you to have it move 8" and still use the polarity shield. You are losing out on assassination potential vs a stormclad, but it worked pretty well for me. Strangewayes is a must. Having a mechanic around is nice, but Evasive is really great. It lets your jack bullet ignore free-strikes, and just makes it SO much easier to get the assassination run. The squire helps Kraye out with his lowish focus and small control range, and the hunter plinks things.

Honestly, I think the cyclone is amazing in general, but Kraye really gets a lot of mileage out of it. its actually a great option for full tilt, since against low armor casters, pow 14's can still do the job, and it still has a 15.5 charge threat at MAT 7 on feat turn. In addition, since the covering fire is a star action instead of a ranged attack, you can still use covering fire while under full tilt, letting it move 10" and still lay down templates. It also lets you get the most out of the dual open fists, since you can walk 10" and do a power attack.

In addition, with the sentinel, Kraye, the hunter, AND the Cyclone, guided fire becomes halfway decent (though I know many people will rage and froth about it, but whatever, I got some OK use out of it)

Anyway, thats what I had the most success with. Though some stormsmiths and a firefly or two can also be pretty hilarious with Kraye :)

[imweasel]

Okay cool, cheers for the response. What is it about the Cyclone you dont like with Kraye? Without Covering Fire it seems like the list is really lacking for infantry control.

I can't use a ride-by attack and still lay down covering fire templates.

[imweasel]

In addition, since the covering fire is a star action instead of a ranged attack, you can still use covering fire while under full tilt, letting it move 10" and still lay down templates.

I thought you could use atgm's snipe with covering fire? If this is the way it is, you wouldn't be able to use rune shot with it.

[Rez]

Cheers for the responses so far. I haven't really looked at the sword knights yet, but they look like a decent tarpit. My only concern is they dont seem that hard to kill. There are a heap of Cryx players locally, and a lot if weaponmasters in general. High armour never seems as useful on a tarpit as high defense. Are there any good tarpit units in Cygnar that have high def? As a whole I like the idea of using infantry with Kraye, it makes the army less of a one trick pony (pun intended :D) and more versatile.

The only other thing I don't like in the list is the Sentinel. Is Kraye that prone to getting shot? I can't help but think the B13th would be better in an infantry control role. There aren't the many local players running eLyl or eCaine, but then I have no idea exactly what is dangerous to Kraye.

I think I will buy that 25 point list as a starter and mix things up from there. If I get that list plus the Cyclone, Thorn, Hunter, ATGM and a ranger unit or two I should have a bunch of different lists I can try out. Is his tier any good? The lack of extra focus generation seems limiting.