Thoughts on Marauder combo slam

[schuwa]

Hey everyone,

Just got Mk2 and pretty quickly flipped to the Marauder, seeing as how I've had this model when it first came out many, many moons ago. Trouble was, I had *such* a difficult time pulling off the Combo Slam, as one of the arms was almost guaranteed to get destroyed before it reached melee. And that Combo Slam was really what made the jack even worth taking.

Enter Mk2, and little change with aforementioned problem, except that Battle Mechaniks are a lot more resilient, which might mitigate the problem. Seems like a hefty use of 3 more points, though. And for the same 7 points, in my view, I would almost rather have a Juggy with the open fist and the ice axe.

But maybe I'm just seeing this from the wrong angle. Or maybe just personal preference. Give me a sense of what people's thoughts on using the Marauder in Mk2. I want to pull this model out of the case, but I just cannot find the reason to do it.

[Avecrien]

If I'm running jacks these days, I'm definitely bringing mechaniks, so that's not much of an issue. For 7pts, if I could bring a Jug I could bring a Marauder. I've always had better use out of the Marauder. One harder hit and slamming it around to knock down other models and get what I want in range of the other jacks or guns is great.
I don't think I'm in the majority on that though.

And the Kodiak is shining bright as ever(though I miss the extra die on KD models) so I'd rather find a point to spare and bring one of them instead.

[ShockwaveIIC]

It all depends on how much focus you have spare.

If you have the focus to allow a Juggernaut to beat face all is good, but if your focus is tight, the Marauder works.

[Beastman]

It all depends on how much focus you have spare.

If you have the focus to allow a Juggernaut to beat face all is good, but if your focus is tight, the Marauder works.

That is a really good point. I have been wanting to get a Marauder in a list, and with that in mind, it makes it seem more viable.

[malfred]

Regular Slam: Must aim right at the center of the model.

Combo Slam: Charge in a straight line and turn to direct the slam. Or just advance
and position your slam in the best possible position.

At least, that's how I think it'll work.

[ShockwaveIIC]

That is a really good point. I have been wanting to get a Marauder in a list, and with that in mind, it makes it seem more viable.The idea came to me when thinking about what to run with pIrusk. One focus for Superiority, if it needs to charge it can get it's second from the Koldun.


Regular Slam: Must aim right at the center of the model.

Combo Slam: Charge in a straight line and turn to direct the slam. Or just advance
and position your slam in the best possible position.

At least, that's how I think it'll work.That is how it works.

[i_like_tool]

The idea came to me when thinking about what to run with pIrusk. One focus for Superiority, if it needs to charge it can get it's second from the Koldun.


Huh? Am I completely misunderstanding your post?.....

The Jack will still only have one Focus from the Koldun lord right? Irusk can't give him focus if the Koldun does

I'm assuming you mean it will only cost Irusk 1 fury to keep Superiority up while the Koldun can actually fuel him

[ShockwaveIIC]

The idea came to me when thinking about what to run with pIrusk. One focus for Superiority, if it needs to charge it can get it's second from the Koldun.


Huh? Am I completely misunderstanding your post?.....

The Jack will still only have one Focus from the Koldun lord right? Irusk can't give him focus if the Koldun does

I'm assuming you mean it will only cost Irusk 1 fury to keep Superiority up while the Koldun can actually fuel him
Of sorts. It is in Irusk's battlegroup, so if he needs to he can give it 3 focus, but for the most part will be paying only 1 for upkeeping Superiority. For the most part, the Marauder will only need one to charge, and it can get that from the Koldun, better if the Koldun casts it as part of Battle wizard.

[etherya]

Marauder is a good choise if you run mechaniks instead of classic juggernaut. Last one is better choise if you don't run any mechaniks, I think, 'cause if Marauder lose an arm cannot avail the special attack.

[BlitzR]

Hey everyone,
Enter Mk2, and little change with aforementioned problem, except that Battle Mechaniks are a lot more resilient, which might mitigate the problem. Seems like a hefty use of 3 more points, though. And for the same 7 points, in my view, I would almost rather have a Juggy with the open fist and the ice axe.


Or you could simply look at it from the other angle...if you have both a Marauder and a Juggernaut, both of which have lot their right arms, which would you rather have?

I understand your argument, but a Juggernaut with a dead right arm just lost its primary selling point. In MkII, it is not all that bad as the open fist now does fairly good damage. Although in the good ol' days of MkI, I found both to be as good as each other. I still use both to this day.

You cannot underestimate just how awesome combo slam is. You simply have so much more control over the slam direction it is cruel.

[whats82]

Problem with combo slam is.. it prevent you from beating the model afterward.

When you charge or after you get charged, you want to load up a jack with focus and beat something until it stops moving, slamming it away from you means you get one good power hit and nothing afterwards. Pow20 is nice, but you only get one as opposed to a Jugg who gets up to 4 with 3 focus at Pow19, which really wrecks heavy targets much much better.

The marauder have some cute utility, but without the follow up ability, he does not justify his 7 pts.

Besides, it's actually not that hard to prevent the combo slam from affecting you greatly. The marauder is spd4 and can charge 7" under normal circumstances, your opponent can position his jack such that you can't angle it to the side too much, or simply leaving some space behind it. If they charged you, chances are there's nothing good to slam against behind whatever just charged you..

[Mutton]

There is one 'caster that likes the Marauder; eVlad. Assail on it ends up with some brutal combo-slams, and it's not like he's taking anything other than a Marauder, Juggernaut, or Drago anyways.

[Marth]

On the plus side, the Marauder, if aimed properly, knocks at least two things down, the slam target and what it got slammed into. The rest of your army can certainly benefit from that.
If you want the Comboslam to be seriously damaging, give him another focus to boost the damage, and if possible super-slam him into something as big or bigger.

[whats82]

Slamming two things down depend on your opponent letting you.

Problem is, even a boosted damage on a POW20 does not even reliably cripple a heavy, much less destroy one. To superslam it into another large base model, again, rely on your opponent setting it up to let you, and you rolling high enough on the slam distance. Those 2 factors are not controlled by the controller of the marauder, and makes his output very unreliable.

[Marth]

I did not actually intend to say that this would be completely reliable or an everyday situation. But I think you can't neglect it - after all, even the best laid plans can die do a die roll. And, after all, your opponents are human and make mistakes.

What I mean is: You can always say "your Opponent won't let you." But I wouldn't take that as a reason not to take something if I want to. I'll just find something else it can do. The boards aren't always empty and nobody's perfect. But I do agree that it's not simple to really capitalize on the opportunities that do present themselves.

Yes, it's probably not going to outright trash that Arcane Shielded Ol'rowdy, but it at least get's that thing outta my sight, and right into his adjacent centurion. And my turn is still going on.
(Now this situation was in Mk1, but: Even in Mk 2, Stryker only has 6 Fokus, so...)

[Ger]

Superslams are easier to finagle on small based models. If you can manage to catch an enemy warcaster with a Marauder charge and slam it into pretty much anything. Your doing heavy damage and setting it up to be stomped if it's not dead already.

The Marauder is the only Khador model I own. It was also my first WM model painted and assembled, so I have some love for it.

Here's how I'd try to use it. Second wave, after a melee force. With some sort of heavy damage dealing melee. (Possibly MoW) The jacks job is to smite enemy stuff out of my lines and where they can be charged, or to come in later to play billiards. If half the models in a skirmish are mine, I can do some tricks.

Knowing when to beat on something with Ram Piston's instead of smiting seems important. Another mention is how well it performs while disrupted or autonomous. It looses less from these counters.

Some possible situations
-Enemy model ties your unit up. Smite and charge the unit at something else. (Further thought, may be good with MoW Bombadiers.)
-High value target enemy heavy survived being beat on by one of my other jacks. Marauder walks up and smites it into that jack to finish it.
-Juggernaut on an enemy heavies left. Marauder on the right. Smite toward the left. It barely moves and takes a Super Slam. My Jugg takes what? Pow 12 in collateral? (Break the focus down for this. Could probably crack a target with an allocation of 1 to each.)
-Smite an enemy trooper into an enemy solo.
-Smite MY trooper into a high def enemy solo/warcaster.
-x5 P+S 16s. I got P+S 17 x4 to smack your heavies with. It's not as bad as you think.
-Slam an enemy heavy. It's KD. 3 Ice cages/stationary. Two focus to get it all shaken off. Max focus for charges/boosts/additional attacks? 1. Name something that can kill one of your heavies with just 1 focus.

It's a finesse piece. It supports the rest of your army and can be very low focus. It can also be a good Jack Marshal as in most cases you'd only need 1 focus. The Koldun Lord thus seems like an excellent choice to Marshal him with.

Troops wise. I don't know much about MoW, but it seems like they'd work well with him. It would grant the option of smiting medium bases into medium. With you controlling one of the mediums. Further they hit hard which makes you less reliant on your Jack hitting hard.

[GorBLiTZ]

I think the Marauder is great for setting up favorable situations. The combo-smite is a P+S20 and allows you to direct the slam. I remmeber an article a while back about if a good slam was as good as a good charge. I think this still applies here. I know most folks completely discount KD as utterly and completely negated by shake effects ability, but I say it still costs the opposing WC a focus per model and if you are slamming right you will hit 2 models or more with some collateral plus KD. I like my Marauder, he can set up some real beat face turns for his friends in a Karchev BG or either Butcher BG by KD-ing a chunk of the opposition.

Im in love with all our Jacks now. Their giant damage grids and armor keep them a nuisance till the bitter end. The Marauder isnt my first choice jack but he does compete for second.

[Waaargh]

Having faced the Battle Mechaniks several times with my trolls, I can vote for them being highly resilient with Iron Sentinel. DEF 15 and ARM 15 make them a nuisance that is a drain to get rid of, and so they can keep repairing or standing in front of a warjack to shield it from melee attacks. For 3 points.

[Pickles]

It all depends on how much focus you have spare.

If you have the focus to allow a Juggernaut to beat face all is good, but if your focus is tight, the Marauder works.

The Marauder also supports shooting pretty well. His slam target will be easy to hit with Mortars & the Decimator Cannon & the usual suspects.

[whats82]

The Marauder also supports shooting pretty well. His slam target will be easy to hit with Mortars & the Decimator Cannon & the usual suspects.

But then you're using 16 points of heavy and some focus to deal with 1 (maybe 2) models who probably got the charge on you to start with, and there's a good chance you still dont' kill it with that kind of resource investment.

Don't get me wrong, I want the marauder to be useful, and I've tried using it many times, but he never earns his points either in models destroyed or assisted destroys.

[Critical]

I had a slamfest vs Madhammer last week and squared a Marauder up against a Basher. I got a Karchev powerslide combo-smite into him an tossed him into a forest and dealt 16 points of damage. The next round he was so flummoxed he forgot to recover and the basher did nothing of note. Next round dropped a couple of focus on it and URed with Karchev and finished off the Basher and a Gunbunny. Later slammed one Bokur into another Bokur and killed them both.

Pretty much steamrollered his lines. I like applying pressure to the depth of an opponent's lines, and not just the surface as the Juggernaut does.

Cheers!
Critical

[Avecrien]

Whether we got the charge or took a charge depends more on infantry use and a few other things, but either way saying we have some bombards doesn't detract but rather reinforces the marauder's value. A range focused army that is still able to blow holes in things during and after the major clash is much better than one that shoots to start and then tries to compensate somehow after melee ensues.

We have multiple ways of applying the gas and having the Marauder set up favorable slams. Even if we aren't using the casters that do, we can set up our lines to encourage it. He's a model that only hits once or twice, but he can create tremendous focus efficiency as a result. Even if the opponent sees him and reorganizes his lines to avoid collateral damage we can use that as leverage.

Of course if you guys can get the Marauder buffed somehow, I won't complain :D

[malfred]

After you slam, run troops into the gap to prevent a counter slam. Then when
the opponent kills them (or not) do it again, muahaha.

[Malebolgia]

Or you could simply look at it from the other angle...if you have both a Marauder and a Juggernaut, both of which have lot their right arms, which would you rather have?

I understand your argument, but a Juggernaut with a dead right arm just lost its primary selling point. In MkII, it is not all that bad as the open fist now does fairly good damage. Although in the good ol' days of MkI, I found both to be as good as each other. I still use both to this day.

You cannot underestimate just how awesome combo slam is. You simply have so much more control over the slam direction it is cruel.

You're MKI-thinking here. A juggernaut without right arm can still whack around with it, only less efficient. Under the Butcher or Karchev it's still a terrific weapon. Okay, with MAT6 you'll only hit low-medium DEF models, but P+S19 still hits HARD.

But I agree that the Marauder is a great cheap choice for warcasters who don't invest a lot of Focus in their warjacks. Either take a Jack Marshall or give it 1 Focus for charging. The Kovnik is a great JM for the Marauder. The Drive & Jack Marshall is all you really need to get the slam going.

Only thing people really need to remember is Shaking. That one is a big hit for the Marauder. If you don't make sure the slammed jack isn't going anywhere, it will shake and hit you instead. Surrounding it with cheap troops (Risen, Winterguards) is a good way to keep the machine away from the Marauder.

[TurboNitroMonkey]

Malfred hit the point exactly.

The Marauder is one of the few models in the game that can AIM its slams.

The slam power attack forces the model to move directly toward, so the slam direction is governed by initial placement (and the ability to charge).

Combo-Smite can be done after a charge, so you can aim the slam, not entirely unlike play pool, the Marauder is your cue ball. And, like pool, a good shot is useless unless you've set yourself up for a good following shot.

The Marauder used to be the Kodiak's best buddy in MKI, because it could move 'past' other jacks/models, and slam them laterally, for the Kodiak to charge and get the bonus dice against knocked down models.

In MKII he still some friends though.

In the warjack column, Mr Marauder enjoys the company of the Spriggan and Devastator. Using bulldoze to clear lanes and/or reposition models, you can set up nice 1-2 combinations between the Marauder's slam target and juicy collateral behind it.

And while Epic Vlad was mentioned as a good caster combo, for the sake of the Assail spell giving slams an extra 2", there are two other casters the Marauder gains benefit from.

Kommandant Irusk's Superiority, while good on any jack, allows for 2" of extra movement, letting the Marauder get more ideal positioning for slamming, and in extreme close quarters situations, its even possible to walk a full 180 around a jack without reach and slam it further towards your side of the table.

The Old Witch is also nice for the yo-yo effect of using gallows to pull a target closer to you, in order to get it into range for the Marauder to slam back towards the opponent, or again, position it in better range for slamming in the direction you want to.

Above and beyond that, every time you attack with a Marauder, you have the opportunity to knock down at least two models. What the marauder does better than any other jack, is CHOOSE what the subsequent models are. Remember slammed models move through anything with smaller bases and stop when they hit anything equal sized. The things it moves over or hits take a POW 12, and even if they don't get killed they're knocked down.

In that sense, Mortars <3 Marauders. They can hit DEF 5 no problem. How's that for a synergy. Marauder knocks one model into another, or through a few smaller bases, and two mortars light them up while they lay down.

Somebody complained that slamming it out of range of melee was crummy because now it couldn't follow up with more attacks.

How about a boosted POW 20 + 4D6 (if it hits something as big or bigger) + a series of POW 12 + 2D6s to anything it hits. Followed by as many 16 + 2D6s as you have mortars and 14 + 2D6s as you have bombards to shoot.

There's another synergy, Epic Irusk. Marauder to slam/KD hard targets, Mortars with Fire For Effect to clean up afterwards. 20+3D6 (4D6 if your aim is good and the distance is right), 16+3D6, 16+3D6, plus collateral.

Even better if the 16+3D6s are on the warcaster you just knocked down by slamming a screening jack over him.

Not to mention, Combo Smite is a *Attack, meaning you can 'jack marshal him if you'd like and not have to worry about not having focus to put on him for other shenanigans. But then the MoW Kovnik and Koldun Lord have their own tricks. I'm personally not a fan of Marshalling, but all things considered, even if the Marshal dies... the Marauder, I believe, is the only jack in the game that can slam while autonomous, given that its a *Attack and doesn't require a focus for a power attack.

So yes, while the Juggernaut will pulverize more readily for the same points value, the Marauder is more of a utility jack, but with more possibilities than most give him credit for.

I think I just turned a simple answer into a good core for the Marauder Strategy Guide. Heh. Let me know if I've made any mistakes or left any glaring omissions.

[69Lazarus]

Problem with combo slam is.. it prevent you from beating the model afterward.



That's why I pair my Marauder or Kodiak with the Decimator. I slam/throw a model followed by pumping 2 POW 15 shots into it. Being able to knock other stuff down is often worth it...