So... yeah... Templar.

[Lanz]

So I got to use a Templar for the first time yesterday. I was running Reznik, with Fire of Salvation and Templar, against normal Magnus' Agenda Tier 4(Which I gotta say, is pretty gross to deal with, magnus is practically a warlock for how many assets he can run without resource trouble).

I had Ignite on the FoS, and Aggression on the Templar, and I gotta say, the Templar is pure, refined win in a warjack. Overpowered as the FoS is, he was able to charge the Mangler and scrap it without buying extra attacks or boosting, but the templar pulled off stuff that no other Menite 'jack has been able to do for now.

Magnus' pair of renegades had been operating pretty close together, so I let a Perdition fly into a Steelhead(which was only possible because I had a reclaimer to give focus in Reznik's stead), and moved the Templar closer to the Renegades, then when it charged, I charged to one Renegade's left side, turned and faced, and started wailing on it, pushing it to the right(and into the other renegade), two attacks later, the first renegade was stripped down to nothing but it's melee weapon, so I dedicated the other two attacks to the second renegade(now within range), and cut it down to nothing left but it's movement and cortex, the combined charges of the FoS and Templar crippling magnus' battlegroup in a single turn(Magnus himself was wracked the following turn personally).

The templar allows an interesting manuver, where if you charge the correct angle, you can essentially pull yourself up to 3" towards another target and still be able to buy an attack on it. This easily makes up for the Templar's low speed, as Reach allows it to succeed on charges fine, then beat-back lets it keep moving. In this case, I used it to pummel two renegades that any other Menite 'jack would not have been able to pull off, and the same process could be applied to pushing back a 'jack/beast to get at a squisher solo protected somewhere behind it. Beat-back basiclally adds 3" to the Templar's threat range, when used correctly, and a potential(not always reliable) threat range of 12" gives the 'jack a lot of utility.

My only problem is the aesthetics of the shield being 2 POW weaker than having no weapon at all. You'd think a man-sized iron plate with spikes would be more destructive than a 'jack's bare hands. Essentially, you'll never be using the shield as a weapon. At POW12, it's hardly worth getting into melee range for.

Doom on you, who don't like the Templar, you all suck :p

[Demeritus]

I've used it as well and I must say it is quite powerful. I never got a charge off with it as my opponent (Cygnar) took out its cortex early but despite that it was able to put some serious hurt on the Lancer and a Stormclad (gogo Vassal). The beat back is more powerful than I would have thought at first glance.

[Cleveland]

the Templar looks like quite a good jack...I am waiting for the plastic kits to come into my LGS so that I can make at least one to use with either Reznik or Kreoss, since they are two of the casters I use most often (the High Reclaimer being the other, and I might use the Templar with him also)...

[albertcamUsjr]

The Templar will be nice to add to the stable.

If I want to play it offensively, I've found him to be quite a focus hog (effective though) - but if I use him to anchor a point or a line, he's a huge pain to get through.

[vintersbastard]

My only problem is the aesthetics of the shield being 2 POW weaker than having no weapon at all. You'd think a man-sized iron plate with spikes would be more destructive than a 'jack's bare hands. Essentially, you'll never be using the shield as a weapon. At POW12, it's hardly worth getting into melee range for.

Try hitting somebody (or rather something) with a big shield, and then try it with an armoured fist. The fist hits more easily, and because of this also delivers a greater punch. Especially if you're trying to protect yourself with that shield at the same time.

[Lanz]

I do, frequently. The shield is usually better. The impact from a shield can knock someone right down, especially if they're in armor. A fist? Doesn't do much to an armored target at all, even a gauntlet'd one.

It's pretty straight forwards really, a shield is heavier than nothing, so swinging a shield is going to hit with more force than a fist. That's not even counting the rim of the shield, which is lethal if used right, a lot of force on a reletively thin ridge can break bones pretty easily.

[Seon]

Give shield critical knockdown for lols :D

my plastic warjack kit just arrived this morning. going to be running the templar all week ^_^

[Mutton]

I do, frequently. The shield is usually better. The impact from a shield can knock someone right down, especially if they're in armor. A fist? Doesn't do much to an armored target at all, even a gauntlet'd one.

It's pretty straight forwards really, a shield is heavier than nothing, so swinging a shield is going to hit with more force than a fist. That's not even counting the rim of the shield, which is lethal if used right, a lot of force on a reletively thin ridge can break bones pretty easily.

It really depends on how you hit someone with a shield. One of those old weapon catching wooden shields it won't hurt as much because the force is spread out. A pointy one though...

[Mod_Redphantasm]

I do, frequently. The shield is usually better. The impact from a shield can knock someone right down, especially if they're in armor. A fist? Doesn't do much to an armored target at all, even a gauntlet'd one.

It's pretty straight forwards really, a shield is heavier than nothing, so swinging a shield is going to hit with more force than a fist. That's not even counting the rim of the shield, which is lethal if used right, a lot of force on a reletively thin ridge can break bones pretty easily.

It's about the spread force of the impact. A fist can accelerate faster and land more accurately where you want it. A large heavy shield (and they are heavy) accelerates more slowly, and the force of its impact is spread out. Remember too, Warjacks can't adjust their grip and position of weapons like you can. If your shield was physically bolted to your arm, and your other hand locked shut around a flail, your fighting style would change significantly

[Soylent]

I do, frequently. The shield is usually better. The impact from a shield can knock someone right down, especially if they're in armor. A fist? Doesn't do much to an armored target at all, even a gauntlet'd one.

It's pretty straight forwards really, a shield is heavier than nothing, so swinging a shield is going to hit with more force than a fist. That's not even counting the rim of the shield, which is lethal if used right, a lot of force on a reletively thin ridge can break bones pretty easily.

A shield may be heavier but the force per unit area is greater with a fist. Big shield, more surface area, less pressure. Smaller fist, smaller surface area, greater pressure. P=F/A

[Mod_Redphantasm]

A shield may be heavier but the force per unit area is greater with a fist. Big shield, more surface area, less pressure. Smaller fist, smaller surface area, greater pressure. P=F/A

Fist can also usually generate more force, though it's mass is lower it can do much better acceleration, especially when you factor in the relative air resistances of fists and shields.

[Soylent]

Force(F=ma) would likely be a wash between the two. Fist, lower mass, greater accelration where the shield is greater mass, lower acceleration...though there would be some minor variables like resistance. The big difference is pressure(force/area) which gives the fist a greater blow.

It's really a mute point. Fist is P&S 14, shield is P&S 12, it's on the card and no use debating it.

[Invader Larb]

If you're talking about physics, you could also look at conservation of momentum. The shield has a heck of a lot of mass.

But anyway... I'm looking forward to getting a Templar on the field soon.

[Seon]

just pinned up my jack kit to allow for any of the arms. and spent all day painting it :D

templar is ready to battle tomorrow night ^_^ will come back and tell you guys how it goes :), might enliven people if they get lots of good reports about THE TEMPLARRRR

[MoDination]

My biggest fear about running the Templar is that I will beatback it right out of my control!

[Steampunk Jim]

Argh! The physics! They BURN!

[bamburn]

My biggest fear about running the Templar is that I will beatback it right out of my control!

The movement is optional right? You can always measure your control so I don't think this should be too big of a concern.

[Invader Larb]

You can also get the job done with the Templar and then activate your caster to move the control area to cover it.

[Blackraine]

While on the subject of physics still, keep in mind that a shield (being a large, flat object) can be rotated to have a much smaller impacting surface area than the fist, while still conserving it's mass advantage. Doing so also negates the penalties of air resistance to move the shield. Thus, a "shield chop" can deliver a much heftier blow than the aforementioned gauntleted fist, assuming that the shield is indeed heavier (which it generally is).

Also, I'm excited about the templar. I think I'm going to have to try two templar, the Avatar, and a couple units of Bastions with Epic Kreoss at some point just to make the opponent cry at all the armor.

[Soylent]

shield chop

Good point. Guess they haven't thought of that in the IK so it will remain a POW12;)

[cryptomancer]

Huh... I never considered using it to "pull" my threat ranges quite like that... it's an interesting notion. He does seem like he'll be a Focus hog, though.

-Crypto

[Lanz]

I found the reclaimer worked wonders with the Templar, both for allowing it to range out of the caster's control area, and for providing focus in a case where you wouldn't want your caster running low.

[Zenzi]

one question about the Templar is it actually temple flame guard, at least fluff wise?

[High Templar]

one question about the Templar is it actually temple flame guard, at least fluff wise?:confused::confused::confused: It's a heavy warjack. But if you are asking if it is something like the guardian then i don't think so

[Zenzi]

I was just wondering because the name Templar one could kind of assume its fluff/creation would have came from the flame guard, like the Guardian, but more of a question for someone who currently has the prime book with them. Sorry if my first question was confusing.

[Warpriest]

Templars were first created to guard the Tower of Judgment. Guarding temples/fortifications, then marching to war are the only thing they have in common with the Flameguard.

[Zenzi]

Thanks for the info.

[Marius]

If anything, i'd have associated the Templar with Exemplar. The Templar's were a knightly order during the crusades, so it would seem more likely that if the warjack was associated with any order, it'd be our knightly order.

Of course, that's largely irrelevant in the light of it's actual background.