Thoughts on Kraye, Sentinel after tourey experience

[GrimmRiggins]

Anyway, at the Resurgence event today I tied for 1st place out of 13 (lost due to strength of schedule) and won best of Cygnar (out of 4) with...

wait for it...

Kraye.

Badmouth him all you want, I have not had any Mark II experience with Kraye that gives credence to his naysayers. Hell, even the Sentinel performed swimingly--though I must say the collective crying about him that I've been hearing at night while I try to sleep has ebbed somewhat since Prime Mk II threw him a bone with shield guard (which, incidentally, jives nicely with Kraye).

It was mainly my 2 chargers (right!?!) that dropped my opponents' casters, so the argument could be made that any focus battery could have acheived similar results, but I submit that they would not have been nearly so effective without Kraye's highly adaptive compliment of spells and abilities.

Cheif among them is Kraye's ability to have the 'jacks drop two shots and move almost full speed back to safety...or to engage an opponent's piece...or to block line of sight or charge lanes to something worth more than their paltry 4 points. Let me emphasize how huge this ability is in practice. We've long known that boosted power 12's kill 'casters, and now we have the added utility of being able to reliably deliver them from 18" away without sacrificing models to do so. The net effect of this tops our current snipe by 1" (since you can't retreat quite as far as you advanced), for NO FOCUS. This ability alone makes Kraye uniquely powerful.

All too often, people forget that Kraye HAS A GUN, can HIT CRAP WITH IT FROM FAR AWAY and it can SHOOT TWICE, TOO. If hitting (not necessarily damaging) is your primary concern, Kraye and 1 charger make guided fire efficient enough to cast, and its utility only increases when you add in other multifire jacks, even the lowly sentinel. Is it God's gift to ranged 'jacks? No. Is it usable? Moreso than "they" would have you think. (in case the good-natured sarcasm didn't transliterate, I'm not trying to incite "them." Just stating my case for a beloved caster.) Don't even get me started on how excited I'll be once Cyclone is here.

Right then: Jack bullet. Easy to see coming? Absolutely. It's the first thing your opponent expects. But so is the Kreoss drop and pop or the Caine infantry shred or... fill in your favorite caster and condition here. You get the picture. Easy to avoid? Sure, but then you face the charger/Kraye/shooting-flavor-of-the-day trifecta, which is not that difficult to have coming from an angle such that your opponent must choose the lesser of two evils. And with an upkeep spell that lets your melee heavy go anywhere it wants and still be able to get anywhere it's needed, Kraye has an unprecidented knack for being able to shift his entire army where it needs to go. If you're fighting your opponent's battle and not your own, you might not be getting the most out of Kraye.

Seriously, people. You can win with the horseman. I can't even list all the ways that his spells were useful to me, though with so many jacks (sent, charger, charger, IC and then TH for the higher point lists) I became somewhat focus-starved without my squire and Arlan, though I don't foresee leaving home without them in future tourneys with less restrictive comp rules.

Bottom Line is, Kraye has enough survivability and is just slippery enough to make him a tough caster to pin down, and instills the same benefit in his warjacks, who now are significantly more survivable themselves. Is he a beatstick? No. Will he assassinate many 'casters on his own? Probably not. Does he change the way you can play the game? Absolutely. And when you realize that in a game where the way you play is just as valuable as the P+S of your 'caster's trebble-headed murder flail, you'll find out that while Kraye's saber and carbine may not win you the day, the smart use of his many virtues most certainly will.

[Defenstrator]

Can you tell us more of how you're games went and who you were fighting?

[WisebloodJ]

Yeah, as a fan of Kraye I'd love to hear a more detailed description of events.

[TimBuckToo]

Well written. Never even thought about Kraye until now because of all I've heard. It's to bad too because I really love the model. Gonna look closer.

Mind sharing some of the lists you like running him with?

[Mar]

But can he roll 4d6 + 12POW on a 14 inch range 2x a turn?

[whats82]

How do you tie for first ? The last round should have been the two highest points players, and then there's strength of schedule and then match points..

[admanb]

How do you tie for first ? The last round should have been the two highest points players, and then there's strength of schedule and then match points..

Resurgence is fixed at three rounds. And he did say he got second due to strength of schedule. :P

[knight_actual]

what were your compositions through the rounds?

how did you deal with khador or menite wall of heavy warjacks and cautious casters?

[jking_3rd]

How are you getting 4d6 out of the charger?

especially if you are running 2 chargers and want to buy the Boost & Extra attack.

Kraye = 6 focus
- 3 to charger A
- 3 to charger B

each Charger:
- uses 1 focus to boost Atk & dmg #1 for 3d6 to hit & dmg
- Uses 1 focus to buy 2nd atk
- Uses 1 focus to boost Atk & dmg #2 for 3d6 to hit & dmg

[whats82]

Resurgence is fixed at three rounds. And he did say he got second due to strength of schedule. :P

My bad for not reading.

[Tamwulf]

Obviously, we need to re-evaluate the effectiveness of our (Cygnar) warcasters in the wake of MK II changes. I too, would like to hear about the kinds of lists the OP faced, and how he dealt with them. Also, what was all in his Kraye lists besides the Warjacks?

It's not that Kraye got worse or anything. It's that a lot of things changed around him, and he didn't change much at all. Now it's just a matter of finding the things that work the best with him all over again.


But can he roll 4d6 + 12POW on a 14 inch range 2x a turn?
Let's see the rest of her abilities before then, eh? If that is the only thing she can do, then color me unimpressed. :) After all, there are more then a few other models that can do something similar to that.

[Creaux]

I've been really enjoying Kraye, and finding him a really successful guy. Since you didn't have a lancer, I guess you must have had Kraye casting Persuit personally. Did you use the charger's light cav movement to then protect Kraye?

I'd like to see your list straight up...I've been playing with diferent builds, and I feel most comfortable with a defender or cyclone, Ol' Rowdy, a grenadier and a sentinel, with a charger on Junior. I fill with mechanics, rangers and trenchers.

I've also been trying to get as much benefit out of ride by attack as I can...it's great stuff! Guided fire makes grenadiers totally fantastic--they are hard to beat as light cavalry!

But, in other words, I'm falling deeper in olve with the Reconnaissance Service.

[Mar]

How are you getting 4d6 out of the charger?


I was refering to Kara Sloan's new gun, Spitfire. There are a bunch of threads on the Cygnar board that explain how it works.



Let's see the rest of her abilities before then, eh? If that is the only thing she can do, then color me unimpressed. :) After all, there are more then a few other models that can do something similar to that.

I know we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves, but you have to admit that gun is damn sexy.

[jking_3rd]

His biggest danger is the Large Base. Gotta keep him behind Trencher Smoke or Big Jacks (like the new Cyclone)

[brotherscott]

Resurgence is fixed at three rounds. And he did say he got second due to strength of schedule. :P

Resurgence is fixed at three encounter levels (35, 50, & 75; or 25, 35, & 50; depending on venue) and number of rounds is still based off number of players (3, 4, or 5 rounds).

Found the info here. (http://privateerpress.com/files/resurgence%20rules_WEB_0.pdf)

Also previews the new shiny coins....

On the OP, nicely done and congratulations!

I can be counted among those that are interested in your army build as well as opponent armies. I believe Kraye is a solid 'caster and just needs more table time to figure him out (rather than Forum time decrying how bad he is).

[whatawookie1]

I'd like to know what the OPs list was.

[Gorbad]

Seriously, people. You can win with the horseman.

I don't think anyone have claimed you can't, at least I haven't. His trick is still a good one, the problem is more that Kraye himself is boring. It's not a MK II change though, I played him a lot in MK I and it was mostly true there too. He just does slightly less in MK II than he did in MK I.

Kraye can do some good things for your jacks, and if you get the army balance right he can certainly win. But you have to want to play him for what Iron Horse does for your jacks because that's most of what Kraye does.

Now that doesn't mean people shouldn't play him. I would encourage people to break him out once in a while and try him out, just to play around with Jack Cav. He is just a fairly limited caster in my experience and so I find more dynamic casters more interesting to play.

[tensteam]

Now when we got Cyclone I can see Kraye having a good chance to win games against almost any foe. Kraye himself isn't probably doing much except granting Iron horse and allocating focus. But if I am reading this correctly OP did have success without. That's well done and I'm pretty curious to hear more! For example the list composition as well as the opponents faced.

[W0lf]

What was your list?

what were the 3 lists you faced?

[GrimmRiggins]

I'm glad to see that people are interested!

Sorry for not posting any hard numbers in the opening post. I was writing in a mixture of elation and exhaustion.

Since this was the first MK II event, and since there were a few less experienced players attending, our point values were 25 and 35, and we were going to play a 4th round but had to cut it due to the closing time of the game shop, hence the 3 rounds.

My list was as follows:
Kraye
Sentinel
Charger
Charger
Ironclad
Journeywoman Warcaster
Min Precursors with UA

23 points. I considered bringing the squire along, but I really wanted to see what the Mk II Thunderhead could do.

My first opponent was playing a combined arms Kreoss List, to the best of my recollection something like this:

Kreoss
Guardian
Redeemer
Vassal
Choir
Full Temple Flame Guard
Daughters of the Flame

What follows is a detailed battle report. I know I can be a bit long winded, so I'll try to sum up each round in a paragraph following the report, in case you want to skip the nitty-gritty.

I won the starting roll and elected to go first. Turn one basically involved Jr. casting Arcane Shield on Kraye and then moving into a flanking position on the right, then Kraye casting Full Tilt on the Ironclad, which moved into a threating left flank position, just out of reach of the TFG and Guardian. The precursors advanced under shield wall, unfortunately for them just within deviation range of the Redeemer. The light jacks ran for free and found cover, with the Sent hanging within 2" of Kraye.

My opponent ran his Protection of Menoth'd (don't remember the spell's new name) Daughters to tie up my IC and one of my chargers, then advanced and shieldwalled his TFG, bating my Ironclad, I assume. The Guardian took center stage in order to arc spells, but with few choice targets this didn't yield him too much. The Redeemer was the real star, taking out 3 precursors with its first volley after benefiting from the choir and ancillary attack. Kreoss hid in among the choir and camped a few focus.

Turn two saw me fail to knock down the daughters with a tremor attack, though the sentinel under guided fire got lucky enough to take out two of them. The charger disengaged with perhaps 2 damage from the free strike, but I botched both attack rolls (even with guided fire) and failed to take down any more of them, though luckily I was able to move it back to within a threatening distance of Kreoss. Junior moved farther up and got a bead on Kreoss, hitting and rolling a 6-6-5 for damage, which spooked my opponent pretty badly. My blunder here was not having the free charger close enough to get a decent shot, but having it able to reposition after its attack remedied this. The PK's were now close enough to break shieldwall and charge the Guardian (in Morrow's name, naturally) and engage the Redeemer.

My opponent's second turn looked like this: 4 Daughters ran to surround Kraye, but my opponent failed to close the gap completely. I informed him ahead of time that Kraye is immune to free strikes, but this didn't seem to factor for him. He allocated 4 focus to his 'jacks, 2 of which went wasted after he dropped the PK's engaging them and then took out another with the Redeemer's ancillary rocket shot. Kreoss camped his remaining focus and tried to hide behind the choir. Seeing too late that his force was spread a bit thin, I think he was expecting to get lit up next turn. He was right.

Between Jr. and the repositioned chargers, I was able to find two decent firing lanes (about 1/8" to 1/4"). Two shots later, no more Kreoss.

To recap: Ironclad's enhanced speed and light 'jacks repositioning enabled me to quickly set up the battlefield in my favor, holding the two major melee threats (TFG and Guardian) somewhat at bay with the IC and PK's, while the chargers and JWC skirted the conflict and quickly put the pressure on Kreoss. The game's star was the JWC, who (for me, anyway) has put more damage on enemy casters than just about any other model in all Cygnar. Still no promotion. The chargers and sentinel get honorable mentions for cappig high DEF models pretty reliably under Guided Fire.

*edits: Forgot I actually used the PK's effectively this game to draw out focus and keep the 'jacks from moving to shield Kreoss.

[GrimmRiggins]

Round two pitted me against the Searforge Commission. Same list on my part. My opponent fielded:

Durgen Madhammer
2x Blaster
2x Gunner
Ogrun Bokur
Full High Shields
Full Forge Guard

I lost the roll and went 2nd. My opponent moved his dwarf brick forward, putting 10 ARM 19 and 10 ARM 18 models between my shooting and his caster. The gunbunnies (1 of each) flanked on either side, and the Bokur kept Durgen company.

My 1st turn was very similar to that of the previous game. I ran the IC 20" to tie up the two left-flanking 'jacks, then advanced the PK's forward with Junior behind, and ran the two chargers into cover. The Sentinel stood guard by Kraye. I misjudged the distance by a little, needlessly putting Kraye in harm's way. Had the IC not been able to keep the two gunbunnies from shooting, that might have been the game right there.

My opponent advanced the Forge Guard, then activated Durgen and sent a case-cracker in Kraye's direction. However, with AS and 2 focus, my 1/2 Arm was still at 14, so even with a boosted damage roll he only netted about 5 points. I didn't have the Sentinel take the shot because I knew the Highshields were sending a massive CRA in my direction. Durgen then inhospitabled the ground, limiting my options severely. The Highshields moved up to block Durgen, and then fired. The sentinel soaked up more than half a gridful of damage in Kraye's stead, knocking out the shield and its movement. The unengaged gunbunnies chewed big gaping holes in my PK's, but failed to kill Junior by 2 points.

I debated casting Easy Rider and really mixing it up, but I opted to go the precision shooting route instead. I let Full Tilt expire since I knew I had been given a rare opportunity of a focusless caster behind a (albeit strong) relatively thin wall of troopers. I loaded up the nearest charger with focus and kept the rest for Kraye, then set the sentinel loose. Luckily I rolled a 6 on the strafe roll. I allocated 4 shots to the Highshield blocking Kraye's LOS to Durgen, killing him on an exceptionally lucky last shot. The charger then moved up and let fly, doing about 5 damage to the bokur (who shield guarded Durgen), and a little more to Durgen himself. Kraye then made use of his massive range to stand still and cap the dwarf. I don't recall the exact rolls, but one average and one slightly above were enough to knock the angry little dude on his butt. Game over.

Recap: Again, a fairly bloodless battle, with only 2 dwarves (including Durgen) and about 4 PK's biting it before the end. A gentlemen's quarrel, if you will. Sentinel gets mad props for almost singlehandedly saving Kraye's hide, but Kraye's full tilted IC is what really sealed the deal. Sadly for my opponent and I, our troops never even engaged one another. Charger, as we all know, is full of win, and gets the assist, but Kraye's own rifle has another 'caster notch in it today. A great weapon in its own right.

[GrimmRiggins]

The very last battle was against Cryx (who I seldom get to face) and was by far the longest, bloodiest, and most interesting. The list was an excellent counter to mine.

My list now includes the Thunderhead and falls at exactly 35 points.

His list:
The Coven
Slayer
Stalker
2x Bonechickens (not sure exactly which ones)
Bloat Thrall
2x Pistol wraiths
Scarlock Thrall
Rengrave
Minimum Revenant crew
Minimum Mechanithralls
Brute Thrall

I won the roll and went first. Two standard upkeeps (full tilt and AS), advanced PK's, Ran TH into a central position, advanced IC beside it, off to the right, kept Kraye central to support all of the 'jacks, and had the Sent guarding him and the two chargers off to the left with the JWC on a ridgeline extending well into the engagement zone.

He advanced his infantry units to just without charge range near the left-of-center, backed up by the Infernal Machine'd Slayer. He then sent the Stalker careening down my right flank, with a pistol wraith, Bonechicken and Bloat Thrall fanned out behind it. Another Bonechicken and Pistol Wraith moved up my left flank. Already he was beginning to effectively neuter my key strategy.

Between them, Kraye and the Sentinel pretty effectively got rid of the pirates with guided fire, though a veil of mists concealed the final unit leader and Rengrave, who would prove to be thorns in my side from then on. The chargers began picking apart the tougher models, but I didn't deal impressive damage to any of them. The other models were too far back to be a primary concern at this point, except for the Bloat Thrall and the Stalker, the latter of which I ran to engage with My IC... though I screwed up and left it an inch out of Kraye's control zone. Probably my costliest mistake of the tourney. The PK's marched ever on, unabated.

On his second turn, my opponent really made life miserable. He advanced the coven and feated, knocking my Mat and Rat down by 2 and limiting my LOS to 5", then selectively engaged all of my primary shooting models with his higher DEF solos and with his Slayer. He got his chain attack off on one of my chargers, eliminating it as a threat to his caster this round. My entire force was tied up and practically useless, just too far to advance and shoot at anything really valuable. He didn't inflict major damage, but he set himself up to do so on the next turn, with minimal retaliation possible from me. Kudos!

Things looked pretty dire. I charged a pistol wraith with My JWC and failed to hit by 1 point. I disengaged a focus-loaded Charger from Rengrave, suffering some damage and almost knocking out the gun, then failed to hit any of the coven. I did manage to get off an energy pules from the TH, rolling just enough to hit most of my opponent's models in range but not quite enough to hit Kraye, who was within the 6" by fractions. The mcThralls fell, and a little damage went to some of the bigger things. I withdrew Kraye from the Feat's effect and blasted the Bloat Thrall, failing to kill it yet again, and then disengaged the IC from the Stalker and engaged the fat %&$# from behind. It was only then that I realized that I had put my focus-less self within possible augmented charge distance of the now disengaged Stalker. I was not excited about the outcome of this turn.

My opponent readily capitalized on this blunder, sending his bonechicken near to the stalker to arc infernal machine on it. I thought that was it. Thankfully, he was out of range by 1". The Stalker couldn't reach me on his own, and his 'caster had wasted a few focus. I could finally breathe. His Slayer picked up and threw my Thunderhead at the precursors, but becuase he hit it only effected one model. He then lit up the TH with the pistol wraith, nullifying it pretty effectively for my next turn. He took out the foremost charger with the Brute Thrall, got Kraye with the second Pistol wraith's chain attack, and stealthed his caster. Shooting was no longer an option.

I spent a little time thinking about my next move. I decided to go for the melee sucker-punch, unleashing my PK's on everything I could reach, charging in Morrow's name and wreaking havoc. I had no vector by which to shoot the Eregore, so I sacrificed Kraye's action, moved him to within 12" of the floating ball of doom, feated, and sent a full-focus Ironclad screaming in from 15" away where it had gone relatively unnoticed. 4 Quakehammer attacks later on the now ARM 20 model, I managed to drop all 3 witches by 2 points.

Recap: My opponent shut down my shooting very effectively, nullified many models with feat/pistol wraiths/good old fashioned melee combat, and forced me to deal with his threats, rather than the other way around. The IC under Full Tilt was the obvious star, reaching the Eregore from an absurd distance and a place where its killing power had almost been forgotten. Kraye's spell/feat combo in this instance (aka the "Jack Bullet") worked very well, as the bulk of his army was concerned with taking down my shooters, Thunderhead and even Kraye himself en masse, freeing up the IC to run willy-nilly through his deep flank. I made a few critical blunders, mainly mismeasurements, but thankfully they were answered in kind when it really mattered. However, I'm not sure even a full-focus stalker could bring down Kraye in one go, with nothing really to back it up. This game was great fun!

[Oniwasabi]

One quick question on your third battle recap, were you saying that the Egregore was ARM 20 when the Ironclad attacked? Because the Egregore doesn't get an ARM boost from focus points left on it. Not that it mattered in your case since it seems you still crushed all three witches, but something to remember for the future!

[GrimmRiggins]

To conclude this monument of text, I will say that clever use of other models was key to acheiving victory with Kraye. I took Precursors because they are immune to enemy spells (lots of Menoth around here) and are very survivable, and on the turn when they break (and you usually only get one, anyway) they can dish out tons of damage at high MAT. Plus, Kraye has one of the only buff spells (Easy Rider) that can actually benefit them.

I love, love, love the IC with Kraye, as it is cheap, cost effective and benefits highly from his spell list, as does the Sentinel. The Sentinel now has the added bonus of being able to soak up damage for Kraye, which as you saw was key to achieving one of my victories. Never leave home without your JWC when playing Kraye.

The downside to running so many 'jacks was the lack of focus. I debated putting the second charger on the JWC, but I really wanted the versatility of potentially giving it Guided fire. A squire and Arlan will mitigate this lack of focus. Iron Horse makes all light 'jacks much more focus independent, but I still felt torn practically every turn when it came time to divy out the little plastic tokens. I didn't have occasion to cast Mage Sight or Hot Pursuit, though in retrospect both of those spells could have probably come in very handy in the Cryx game, had I only a focus or two more.

Kraye has no easy button stategy, though a 'Jack Bullet works 9 times out of 10. As far as him being boring, I have to disagree. I love skirmish-style forces most of the time, and it is because of Kraye that I get such utility and enjoyment out of warjacks. An Ironclad with Haley or Caine just doesn't excite me like one that can charge from 15" away for free with auto-boosted attack rolls. And with the exception of Caine's similar
Shenanigans, none of our casters can move a fraction of an inch, shoot twice from 13" away, and then move into a more advantageous position. None of our casters are natively immune to knockdown and freestrikes (please correct me if I'm wrong), and none of our casters change the basic way in which you use a good portion of your army. Until we see Sloan's compliment of rules, Kraye stands firmly as one of our best ranged and ranged support casters, in addition to all of his other features.

I'm interested to see what experiences others have had running him with different 'Jacks/units. I'll probably throw in the B13 in place of one of the 'jacks in the future and switch up the infantry and solos. Then there's Cyclone. Yummy. Your thoughts?

[GrimmRiggins]

One quick question on your third battle recap, were you saying that the Egregore was ARM 20 when the Ironclad attacked? Because the Egregore doesn't get an ARM boost from focus points left on it. Not that it mattered in your case since it seems you still crushed all three witches, but something to remember for the future!

I was saying that. That's good to know for future games. Thanks!

[whats82]

I usually find the lack of heavy punch to be the biggest hurdle, doesn't help that the first few games I tried with Kraye I ran into Karchev more than once, when even 2 heavies weren't enough for the job. Henceafter I always take at least two heavies, usually an ironclad and a hammersmith with FT on the HS, though stormclad has been awesome (as befit a 10 pt jack) as well.

I found B13 to be very useful, if not for their usual purpose, then for their black penny shot to peel off engaged infantry to my lights (sent usually), this is before sent got shield guard and I run them way up front as distraction and jack baits, so they get engaged by running models often. Stormsmith does similar job on this as well.

[OniBeowulf]

Thank you for the in depth battle report. Sadly I have yet to use Kraye in MK II but with the sentinel with shield guard and the cyclone coming out I'm just waiting lol. I'm really glad he treated you well and I can't wait to give him a shot myself.

[Jorek]

Nice to see some Kraye love on this boards. Well done, Sir and gratulations on the solid showing.

[whitekong]

Very interesting read, good job.

[RetributionBomb]

Hey all. I was also in the Tournament with my Rahn army. I was able to secure First Place and if the store didn't close by the end of the third game I most likely would have faced GrimmRiggin.

I'll say the threat of two Chargers with Kraye is pretty big, especially for Rahn's force that has pretty much no defense against Shooting. Its pretty easy for him to eliminate key blocking models with percision shooting, and then go for the kill with Kraye himself or other shooting models in his army.

Everyone at the tournament was pretty surprised with how Kraye did, although I think this just proves that in capable hands the caster can get the job done. Hes no 'I hit one button and win' like Kreoss, eGaspy or eSkarre, but he can put out the pain for sure.

And we haven't even seen him with the Cyclone... hes going to be a force to reckon once that bad boy comes out.

[Lazlo]

But can he roll 4d6 + 12POW on a 14 inch range 2x a turn?

No, but he can do 3d6 + 11 POW at 17" range 3x a turn. Oh, and he can boost all those attack rolls and all the ranged attack rolls of his battlegroup at the same time.

1. Pull a focus from Squire.
2. Have Reinholdt reload for him.
3. Cast Guided Fire (down to 4 focus now)
4. Announce a ride-by attack.
5. Advance 4"
6. Shoot 13" boost damage (down to 3 focus)
7. Buy second attack, shoot 13" boost damage (down to 1 focus)
8. Use reload attack, shoot 13" boost damage (down to 0 focus)
9. Continue advance to move 4" back.

[Ysthrall]

Nice reports and well done!

I'm pleased to hear the Sentinel does fairly well as a bodyguard.

Did you get much use out of guided fire? Mage sight?

An interesting thought I had with Kraye was using Firefly with him if the light bug can indeed act as a Stormsmith for Triangulation. A Firefly under Full tilt should be able to run for free... 24".... to the back of your opponents force, positioned for the 'smiths to step forwards and all triangulate.

Course, at that distance, you may have to have it run back next turn out of combat :p

[Lazlo]

I did manage to get off an energy pules from the TH, rolling just enough to hit most of my opponent's models in range but not quite enough to hit Kraye, who was within the 6" by fractions.

Thunderhead automaticall hits everything within 6". There is no attack roll.

[GrimmRiggins]

Did you get much use out of guided fire? Mage sight?


Guided Fire, yes, though it's a bit more corner case than before at 3 focus. You really need a firebase of 2 'jacks to make it great. A single 'jack with more than one shot is still a decent return, if your'e planning on shooting twice with Kraye anyway.

I didn't really need Mage Sight until the last game since the terrain was tournament sparse and I didn't face any stealth until then. Even then when I finally had the chance to use it, my firebase was totally out of commission. Luckily I had a 'jack bullet in reserve.

[GrimmRiggins]

Thunderhead automaticall hits everything within 6". There is no attack roll.

Say huh? Is that really how it works? I was a bit confused on the wording myself, since it is a special attack. I figured it just functioned like the new Thresher. Can you still make additional attacks after it? Is there an official ruling on this? Seems too awesome.

[mrhuettel]

aw... if we only had a solo to cast "snipe"!

still: i am seriously taking a kraye-list into consideration for resurgence, loads of fast light jacks with boosted attack rolls are just nice to dominate a field.

however, i am still undecided about the best heavy to accompany kraye... cyclone or defender or ironclad or stormclad?
the obvious three points for squire and reinholt do not leave too much points to waste and all of these three have their advantages...
still, thanks for the writeup, grimriggins, i guess i'll give kraye a try with sentinel and some more light shooters and an ironclad.

[Jorek]

While you are at it, give the Hammersmith a try. Nothing says "movement shenanigans" as a ride-by beat-back surfing HS.

[JamesDiGriz]

Say huh? Is that really how it works? I was a bit confused on the wording myself, since it is a special attack. I figured it just functioned like the new Thresher. Can you still make additional attacks after it? Is there an official ruling on this? Seems too awesome.

Last I knew yes... and they all count a sustained... so run up, auto hit, buy some more hits without rolling.

[Killionaire]

How on earth are you jackbulleting your opponent with one Heavy Jack? 25 point games aren't exactly the normal size. Likewise, what did that Sentinel do that couldn't have been done by the Black 13th or a Squad of Rangers?

It looks to me like you had fantastic matchups by pure chance based on their list.
1. Kreoss only has drop and pop. If you're stable, he's done. Just like in normal games, if he blows his feat early and doesn't do enough, he's done.
2. The madhammer list looks fairly decent, even if it sadly lacks a heavy jack. But you got damned lucky for killing ARM18 troopers with POW10. Anyway, how did you cast Easy Rider, allocate 3 focus to the Charger, and yet buy 2 shots with Kraye's gun?

Likewise, how did you do 11 damage to Durgen with a POW11 gun, when he's ARM17 or higher?
3. Bizzare list. He only has one Slayer for one and McThralls as anti-armor. And that's a min unit too. And Rev Crew min unit with Rengrave? So bizzare. Also of all the casters around, the Coven should be far from any jack bullet, or able to drop the threat with stygians and their blockers. It was good for you that he focused so much on T-Head of course, but wow. Just one slayer? Min units? Rengrave? Sorta disjointed.

Good job on the win, but those sound like rather odd enemy lists and game occurances, especially the freak set of rolls that are required to kill Durgen.

[Defenstrator]

Say huh? Is that really how it works? I was a bit confused on the wording myself, since it is a special attack. I figured it just functioned like the new Thresher. Can you still make additional attacks after it? Is there an official ruling on this? Seems too awesome.
Yes, the Thunderhead auto-hits everything within 6" when it does its special attack. It can then make additional attacks at the regular range 10 POW 14, which will also auto-hit due to sustained attack if targeting someone who was auto-hit by the purge. You do not let the T-Head get within 6" of your warcaster if you want to live.

Note that while the T-Head goes off like a bomb, auto-hitting 360 degrees around it, the purge is still a range attack. Reach troops can be quite good at engaging it or holding it back far enough that it can't decimate the opponents army. Also, since the purge is a special attack, things that prevent those prevent its use as well.

Those were some great write ups. I have to say that I had been having real trouble making Kraye work, and it's nice to see someone weilding an army that manages that fine line of shooting and melee, and light jacks and heavy ones. Hopefully the improved Sentinel and Cyclone herald a new age for our mounted caster.

[GrimmRiggins]

How on earth are you jackbulleting your opponent with one Heavy Jack? 25 point games aren't exactly the normal size. Likewise, what did that Sentinel do that couldn't have been done by the Black 13th or a Squad of Rangers?

Anyway, how did you cast Easy Rider, allocate 3 focus to the Charger, and yet buy 2 shots with Kraye's gun?

Likewise, how did you do 11 damage to Durgen with a POW11 gun, when he's ARM17 or higher?

To answer your questions in order:

The ironclad was more than effective enough to take down the Coven by attacking the Egregore, which must transfer its damage to the witches as I'm sure you know. This was accomplished with 4 POW 18's, one of them boosted due to the charge, with my opponent incorrectly informing me that it was ARM 20 due to its camped focus. The IC had no problem hitting, and even at dice -2 was dealing 8, 5, 5, and 5 on average rolls... more than enough for most warcasters, even some camping focus, and in this case rolling 1 above average would kill.

As said, the Sentinel, now with shield guard, saved Kraye from taking a heavy dose of shooting from a full unit of High Shields. I'm not saying his damage output is better than Rangers or B13, but his survivability most certainly is, and that transfers directly to your warcaster in such instances.

And I didn't cast Easy Rider. As I said, I was debating casting it, but elected not to, then dropped Full Tilt as well, saving 3 focus for Kraye. I didn't bother Boosting Kraye's attack rolls, since he was standing still. I don't remember the exact rolls, but on average boosted damage dice a POW 11 weapon will deal 4 damage per attack to ARM 17 no focus, so the rolls must have either been both slightly (2 and 1 points, for instance) above average or one of them was significantly above average. The charger's damage may have been higher, too.

[GrimmRiggins]

3. Bizzare list. He only has one Slayer for one and McThralls as anti-armor. And that's a min unit too. And Rev Crew min unit with Rengrave? So bizzare. Also of all the casters around, the Coven should be far from any jack bullet, or able to drop the threat with stygians and their blockers. It was good for you that he focused so much on T-Head of course, but wow. Just one slayer? Min units? Rengrave? Sorta disjointed.

Don't know if I mentioned this befofe, but I do not play Cryx and I rarely see them fielded, so I wasn't sure what his list could really do or how effective it might be. The caster and pistol wraiths seemed to shut down shooting with ease, while the infantry was there to muck things up. I do not fault my opponent for poor list making (primarily because I do not know), nor for poor playing. I'm a fairly experienced player, and despite how his list may appear, it did pose serious challenges.

[Mr_Chuffy]

Nice write up and congratulations for placing 2nd! You've given me a reason to try Kraye again too :)

[Spooker]

Very good write up. I to have had issues with Kraye. But it looks to
me like you played him quite well. Congratulations.
Very well done battle report.


I feel like I should take him out of mothballs.

Take care.

[phreaker187]

I've seen Kraye used effectively, just not as effectively as our other top casters. He get's a lot of hate because he's not even close to the tier of eHaley, Siege, and eCaine. If you want to have a good time and not use the "easy button" use Kraye, he's a good time.

[Caecus Scius]

I've used Kraye to GREAT effect, and my list only got better with the sentinel helping out more. With his shield guard, it makes him very effective.

I tend to run a list that is stick and move. Moving into range, shooting and moving back, or moving out from behind cover and shooting, and moving back. I like to take either gun mages or sometimes just GMCA, stormsmiths and eiryss, to complete the whole, I'm shooting you and you can't see me....

I think the cyclone is going ot be the one thing that completes Kraye...

[brotherscott]

Thanks for the write up and information. Well done and congratulations. Good to hear that Kraye makes the table and does well.

[basicbob]

@GrimmRiggins First off thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed report on the tournament games you played. Secondly I always like it when someone refuses to bang the drums of "doom and gloom" and present things in a positive light. It is very beneficial to all and good for the game when someone like yourself spurs thought and discussion on game play heretofore regarded as unfavorable or poor. Good job man!

I want to inquire about a comment you made about Kraye. You said you like to play "skirmish" type games with Kraye. I am wondering if you are suggesting that Kraye should not be used in games at the 75 point level or higher because he is a better caster at "skirmish" gaming. What exactly do you mean by that comment ?

Also about the Cyclone and Kraye when that model comes out ( this week in fact!) what will that do to your lists ? For instance in this past tournament what would your list have looked like ?

Good show and congratulations on your performance.

[GrimmRiggins]

By "skirmish" style play I merely meant having my 'jacks, units and solos--and in this case my caster--in a very loose, adaptive formation. For the most part I prefer all of my models to be of higher speed and defense, able to move quickly into and out of combat and to be able to get an attack vector on whichever model they need to, not just whichever model presents the greatest opportunity. This playstyle lends itself more to shooting than melee, and Kraye suits it very well.

This is not to say that I don't enjoy slow-moving slugfest type armies as well, I just prefer speed and precision over toughness and power. At higher point values, this might look more like a modular army... that is, Kraye and his light 'jacks, along with the B13 and maybe Rangers would make up the "skirmish" style shooting base, while the heavy 'jacks, along with Stannis and the Steelhead cav/halberdiers might be the initial contact melee force. There might be room in there for a shieldwall of precursors backed up by trenchers, long gunners or gun mages for more of a static "come and get me" type fire base. Other than the PK's, I don't have/really care for Cygnar's melee troops, and since I split my time between Cygnar and Mercs, I prefer the steelheads as my primary swift melee module.

Knowing what I do now about the Thunderhead, I'd say its synergy with Kraye is mostly lost. Had I the Cyclone, my first list probably would have included the squire to make it an even 25, and then I'd add the Cyclone as my second heavy and fill in the last point with the Gobber, most likely.

[PUFNSTUF]

Very excellent write up and Battle reps. With more play time using him you should do a tactica on him.

Have you considered other options with kraye such as hunters or defender, or tried them at all?

Would you ever run all jacks? Minus the knights that is, but still keeping support solos.

[basicbob]

By "skirmish" style play I merely meant having my 'jacks, units and solos--and in this case my caster--in a very loose, adaptive formation. For the most part I prefer all of my models to be of higher speed and defense, able to move quickly into and out of combat and to be able to get an attack vector on whichever model they need to, not just whichever model presents the greatest opportunity. This playstyle lends itself more to shooting than melee, and Kraye suits it very well.

This is not to say that I don't enjoy slow-moving slugfest type armies as well, I just prefer speed and precision over toughness and power. At higher point values, this might look more like a modular army... that is, Kraye and his light 'jacks, along with the B13 and maybe Rangers would make up the "skirmish" style shooting base, while the heavy 'jacks, along with Stannis and the Steelhead cav/halberdiers might be the initial contact melee force. There might be room in there for a shieldwall of precursors backed up by trenchers, long gunners or gun mages for more of a static "come and get me" type fire base. Other than the PK's, I don't have/really care for Cygnar's melee troops, and since I split my time between Cygnar and Mercs, I prefer the steelheads as my primary swift melee module.

Knowing what I do now about the Thunderhead, I'd say its synergy with Kraye is mostly lost. Had I the Cyclone, my first list probably would have included the squire to make it an even 25, and then I'd add the Cyclone as my second heavy and fill in the last point with the Gobber, most likely.


Okay play style is more what you were referring to. You mention the Steelheads which is just where I was going next in my questions. Since you brought them up I 'll mention the Stormlances. What are your thoughts on those troops to make a Kraye force extremely mobile ? I'm thinking their presence is best at 50 points. Do you agree?

The Cyclone in your list in combination with the Ironclad based on the way you play Kraye will be a deadly combination for you. Look forward to hearing reports from you on your game play with the Cyclone.

[GrimmRiggins]

I'll have to do a little more playtesting before I can offer a decent opinion on actual Cavalry used with Kraye in MkII. I used the Steelhead module to decent effect in MkI, but the main problem is that Kraye does absolutely nothing for his troops, apart from giving them pathfinder. Unless the wording is changed (don't have my cards handy), this spell only affects Cygnar troops, so there's not a lot of inherent synergy with the Merc Cav, though the Storm Lances would probably benefit somewhat.

The other problem with actual cavalry in this playstyle is that Cygnar only has access to Heavy Cav. Granted, the Storm Lances and Steelheads play a little differently, but the main disadvantage of Heavy Cav is that while you can reach out and touch someone from a tremendous distance, once you do you usually get mired in melee combat and it can be tough to break yourself free. I typically don't get more than one good turn out of Heavy Cavalry, whereas light cav (read: light 'jacks under iron horse) can stay outside the battle, directing their firepower wherever they please.

In essence, I would agree that cavalry should be used at higher point levels, though I'll have to try a 35 with them first to be sure. It seems like, with the price of 'jacks down and their utility and surviability greater than ever before, it's tough to justify such expensive 5 wound models like cavalry that won't net you much past a really impressive charge turn--though sometimes, that's really all you need.

[moz]

Charge cavalry in, hit hard, then place cyclone covering fire templates on anything stuck in melee with them. Stick around and die to pow 12s before swinging?

[knight_actual]

mmm.. covering fire triggers on enter and on end of activation, so covering fire on cav will force death on the swingers only after they swing.

[PUFNSTUF]

mmm.. covering fire triggers on enter and on end of activation, so covering fire on cav will force death on the swingers only after they swing.

exactly. They either swing and die, or leave and take a free strike. Either way they should get offed, where as if there was no template they would just swing without repercussion. I've used this same tactic when useing egaspy and his caustic mists.

[MkNalsheen]

exactly. They either swing and die, or leave and take a free strike. Either way they should get offed, where as if there was no template they would just swing without repercussion. I've used this same tactic when useing egaspy and his caustic mists.

On me, i might like to add. It's incredibly frustrating, and i can't wait to do it myself.

[Top]

Grimmriggins thanks for a well written and informative thread.

-Top

[GrimmRiggins]

exactly. They either swing and die, or leave and take a free strike. Either way they should get offed, where as if there was no template they would just swing without repercussion.

I want my Cyclone. Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

[PUFNSTUF]

I want my Cyclone. Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

indeed! I'm wanting to try the cyclone with both Kraye and Siege

[sanj]

I ran a cyclone with Kraye last night.
It makes great use of guided fire.

There we a couple of moments in both my games when I considered casting full tilt on the cyclone so I could walk 10" and double handed throw or walk 5", throw then walk back 5".
Then not unpkeep it so I could shoot next turn.
I even had a stormsmith running around with the cyclone to zap any jacks knocked down after a throw.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to try that out.
I did get to shred plenty of infantry under guided fire though :)

[brotherscott]

I ran a Kraye 50 point list a while back that included a decent amount of Trenchers and the Storm Lances. It worked out pretty well, but Kraye did seem a little one dimensional and the army pretty much did the same thing every turn.
Not terribly exciting to play, but very effective.

[mrhuettel]

i have just played kraye in our local resurgence tourney and we (kraye and myself) managed to win the first round against pvlad. i fielded kraye, a lancer as tank and melee-assassin, a sentinel, a hunter and a charger together with a min sword knights + ua, squire and jr. khador came with a destroyer, a kodiak and min uhlans, accompanied by widowmakers and a manhunter under vlad. best scene in the game: the sentinel took out three of the four widowmakers under guided fire with tremendously nice rolls - it's great that widowmakers usually stick together to attack the same targets.
the list was very effective, the light cav rules made it almost impossible for my opponent to get his hands on my light jacks. all jacks performed rather nicely, the hunter is an enormous threat to all cavalry, even more with advance deployment and pursuit - to get it into a good shooting position, i even rotated full tilt between it and the lancer

losers of the day: sword knights! they couldn't take down or even severely damage the kodiak (engaged by the hunter in a kamikaze-manoeuvre) on the charge... i rolled an average of seven (7!) on the 4d6 flanked charge-attacks in that round - average rolls of three pow10+4d6 and two pow 10+3d6 should usually get a big hole into any jack... not on friday, though.

final thought on kraye: he's still very efficient and benefits hugely from the new shield guard of the sentinel. and: he makes armies disgustingly mobile

[Creaux]

I'm not sure if I'd want Storm Lances with Kraye, although this is theorymachine. In other games, I've found they only really seem worth their points when you can get something out of their guns as well as their charges, and Kraye doesn't help their shots (Lack of the arcane shield that I put on Rowdy or whomever is my main beatstick doesn't help, either). So, you are stuck with a unit that is a little calorie-light, or you get Laddermore.

In a 50-pointer, it might provide a nice anti-infantry element, but I'd only consider it against, perhaps, a stormclad with storm blades and/or Strangewayes. The idea of having a really fast-moving army sounds pretty nice, but with a lot of 'jacks, you sort of need mechaniks, and only light 'jacks (and one melee) will be going all that quickly. A wing of lights and storm lances just doesn't have the muscle that I want to make the enemy respect my battlefield control.

[Professor Lust]

No, but he can do 3d6 + 11 POW at 17" range 3x a turn. Oh, and he can boost all those attack rolls and all the ranged attack rolls of his battlegroup at the same time.

1. Pull a focus from Squire.
2. Have Reinholdt reload for him.
3. Cast Guided Fire (down to 4 focus now)
4. Announce a ride-by attack.
5. Advance 4"
6. Shoot 13" boost damage (down to 3 focus)
7. Buy second attack, shoot 13" boost damage (down to 1 focus)
8. Use reload attack, shoot 13" boost damage (down to 0 focus)
9. Continue advance to move 4" back.

That sir is actually pretty impressive.

[Frank Austin]

What a rad thread. I am really excited by Kraye, mostly because of his model, and it's nice to read such a good writeup of some games with him. Thanks a lot for this!

Would love to hear more about Kraye and the Cyclone, too, once people start running it more often.

[GrimmRiggins]

Assembling... need... magnets!

Rest assured I'll be sharing some more Kraye stories soon now that I've got my Cyclone in hand. I'll also be giving him a go with the Hunter and Defender, and probably some different troops. I'm really looking forward to the Trencher Commandoes, just 'cause.

On a related note, knowing that the Hunter has Parry makes it a pretty powerful melee assassination tool. It won't be doing tremendous amounts of damage, but with the followup move from Iron Horse getting it just back to safety, it is a pretty effective solo killer, and decent against Low ARM 'casters. 3 boosted to hit POW 11's (2 boosted damage, 1 unboosted) in melee on feat turn is about as good as 2 double-boosted POW 12's at range. I did that a time or 2 in MkI when none of the lights suffered free strikes. Perhaps 2 hunters would be better for this. Not very effective 'jack bullets, but surprising. Parry & Pathfinder make them surprisingly agile and able to get the charge lane.

[GrimmRiggins]

Oh, and thanks for all the encouragement, everyone! I'm surprised that this thread is as well-read as the odes to Kara Sloan, especially since I misspelled tourney in the title. :rolleyes:

[TsavongLah]

Well, we appreciate the optimism and determination. Not that we have a whole lot of doom going on around here, but the community seems... disillusioned with how mkII turned out for Cygnar.

[kbloodslear]

Speaking of which Grimm, our new Boot Camp (http://privateerpressforums.com/showpost.php?p=114590&postcount=2) appears to be missing a tactical write-up on Kraye, while you happen to have some quality experience with the Lone Rider in Mk II.

Coincidence? I think not! ;)

[jking_3rd]

Just thought I'd throw in that my most recent battle w/ Kraye and a Pair of both Sentinels & Chargers was super Vicious.

Trenchers provided the Smoke wall, Kraye moved up & cast Magesight, & Guided Fire, 2 Sentinels moved forward into smoke wall and fired Srafe x5, followed by Srafe x6, Light Cav move back into def. position & Shield guard 4 Kraye. Charger Moved forward w/ 1 focus each, fired initial round, & purchased 2nd round. Then Light Cav rules back behind the smoke wall.

End result, turn 1, 14 enemy infantry dead including UAs & Standard Bearers, destroying my enemy's retaliation.

Turn 2 was spent re-deploying to the other side of board for Flank manuever.

Zero casualties.

[LordRaif]

I have a question: How did you get the Chargers to perform so well with Kraye? Throwing 6 focus on the Chargers means that you're not casting or upkeeping anything else (considering you didn't bring a Squire). Spending all 6 of his focus on the Chargers also means that he's not firing accurately nor is the Sentinel. I've always found that running him as support for his ranged 'Jacks is far too difficult because of his shallow focus pool (and the fact that, while Guided Fire is nice, it doesn't boost all of the damage of the shots from the Chargers, which makes me sad).

[Griffin839]

The trick is target priority. You need to know whats the best target for the chargers. Whats the best target for the sentinels and so on. If your opponent's front line is made up of single wound infantry with low armor, then you want as many shots to hit as possible, because warjack shots will kill them easily. So you give each charger only 1 focus for a second shot and then cast guided fire so you know you can hit. But if you are facing something bigger, like a small group of annoying heavily armed infantry, then you know you want to make sure your shots kill them. So you give each charger three focus each so it can boost each shot and shoot twice. This will probably kill 3-4 of the heavy infantry, basically cutting their effectiveness in half. How this effects the game state, is that by hurting his more elite unit before it can do damage to you, it makes up for the shots your sentinels and cyclones will miss on basic infantry without having guided fire.

[jking_3rd]

I did have the squire but didn't use him that turn. Usually I use the extra focus to fuel my Upkeep Full tilt.

First, I had to get Kraye dangerously close to the front line. He had to cast Mage sight where the infantry's UA was located. -2 Foc. Then cast Guided Fire to boost Avg. RAT 6 +2d6 => RAT 6 +3d6. He also gets 1 initial shot. I can buy the 2nd shot for 1 Foc. And if Reinholt is included he gets a 3rd boosted attack shot. Brutal for clearing infantry all by himself.

I had the Sentinels Move up and I admit that I got lucky rolling a 5 & 6 for my Strafe shots. But out of those 11 Strafe rolls I only missed 1 shot. I cleared as many of the Grunts away from the Standard bearer & WA's to ensure they couldn't be Picked up. And with Light Cav, I made sure to move them close enough to Shield Guard Kraye just in case.

Then I moved my Chargers in, each with 1 Foc on them to either Buy a 2nd attack, or Boost a single shot, depending on the target. If I want a sure kill, its gotta be the boost. Otherwise, POW 12 + 2d6 will usually give me 19 points of damage. which is enough to take out most Standard Bearers.

[Sapphon]

How often do you find that you can actually hit multiple models with your Sentinel (outside of maybe a pair of Shieldwallers it probably won't hurt anyway?) It seems to me that if an opponent sees a Sent across the table he/she just needs to spread out to >2" formation.

[Dyoria]

Necromancy?

[knight_actual]

Kraye really likes a sentinel.
.kraye needs shield guard for protection.
.kraye's carbine, sentinel's chain gun, and cyclone cannons synergizes well with guided fire.
.sentinel can stay out of trouble with light cav move.

Even if opfor spread out his infantry to avoid strafe, that's a victory in itself.

[Agamemnon]

The first time you get hit by Eyriss in either form you will be happy to take a Sent with him from then on. His large base makes him almost impossible to hide when coupled with his relativly low def that makes him ranged target #1.

[jking_3rd]

How often do you find that you can actually hit multiple models with your Sentinel (outside of maybe a pair of Shieldwallers it probably won't hurt anyway?) It seems to me that if an opponent sees a Sent across the table he/she just needs to spread out to >2" formation.

in this instance, I'd say my opponent was hoping his buffs would protect his troops as he set up for the Charge. And he thought to hide behind a forest, as his charge was aimed at my trenchers, Jr. & an IC holding an objective.

I also think, despite me telling my opponent about my spells list every turn (it was a friendly match), he didn't realize the dangers of Kraye's jacks shooting through Smoke. Mage sight is brutal. And to save him 2 focus, I would have used the B13 Fire Beacon if they hadn't been dealing with a seperate flank all on their own. :)

[MadJack]

How often do you find that you can actually hit multiple models with your Sentinel (outside of maybe a pair of Shieldwallers it probably won't hurt anyway?) It seems to me that if an opponent sees a Sent across the table he/she just needs to spread out to >2" formation.
In bigger games with more models on the board, it may be very difficult for him to spread out effectively. Also, depending on the situation, spreading out like that can reduce his ability to concentrate force effectively, and/or open up easy LOS to any squishier models which may be behind his front line. Having said that, when I field a Sentinel, this is usually not an issue, because I almost always seem to roll a 1 for my strafes. The few times I roll higher than a 1, I'm usually in a situation where I want to pile all of my shots on a single target anyway (this only seems to happen when shooting at high DEF solos and casters where my odds of hitting are low, and I'm unlikely to kill with a single hit in any case).

[Pantheon]

How did you cope with scenarios with Kraye?

The dancing light jacks idea is interesting, but does not offer much in a take and hold. So how would you deal with a scenario that forces you to engage a bit more.

[ZeeWulf]

Hi. I'm brand new here, but I wanted to jump in quick with my experience using Kraye for the very first time.

I paired him up with a list that shouldn't have really worked that well, Synergistcally:

Kraye
Laddermore,
3 Storm Lances
Stormclad
Hunter
(And for filler, Strangeways and a Stormcaller)

Versus Trollbloods, I sent them forward in a wedge formation behind some woods, with just the Hunter forward playing sniper. Dead center was the Stormclad, and Kraye took up the rear. My opponent kindly approached with his leader and some trolls, and I utilized Kraye's Easy Rider spell to let the cav charge through the woods and take out the biggest troll and ding up another one...and then that, plus doubling the speed of the stormclad, and Kraye's feat let me run the Stormclad down the other guy's throat.

It was obvious from the start what my plan was..but it was surprising, nonetheless. And lucky, too. But I will be trying again versus someone else, hopefully at the 35 point level, on Sunday...see if it works again.

[jking_3rd]

How did you cope with scenarios with Kraye?

The dancing light jacks idea is interesting, but does not offer much in a take and hold. So how would you deal with a scenario that forces you to engage a bit more.

The dancing light jacks is Great, but his Feat is all about the Charge. Since his light jacks become Light Cav, the still get the Cav Charge on attack +2. its an easy one to forget. But Kraye should never be w/o his Beat Stick or Jack bullet simply b/c of his feat. Boosted melee rolls for his Turn, & free charges + 2" of movement on those charges. The focus spent on the charge can be used for extra attacks, or boosted DMG, since your ATKs are already boosted.

And with his feat, who wouldn't run a couple of awesome Heavies!

And don't forget, one of his Heavies is probably already running with Full Tilt which doubles its SPD. My fav combo is the Stormclad with Full Tilt SPD 5 => SPD 10. +3" for charge. +2" for Feat. +2" of Reach. With POW 10 Electro Leaps on every swing. Oh, and its considered Heavy Cav, so it gets an Impact attack on everything within 0.5" @ POW 11 (STR) as it makes its way to its Charge Target. Those Impact attacks are boosted also. Pretty much everything that's a single wound dies. And Tall in the Saddle lets Cav pick a Target that is behind an infantry line. So no reason to select a target in front and waste your Impact Attacks.

Or, you need a Control Point, that jack with SPD 5 just became SPD 10, and can RUN 20 to the other side of the board. Ol' Rowdy is great for this. ARM 20, Free runs & Charges, Tremor. and Counter Charge, what's not to like. He can hold a point all by himself.

And Heavies still get Trample for a Focus. A Jack with a 13" trample is pretty deadly to Infantry.

[Dan from Chicago]

I like a Hammersmith with Kraye. Kraye's feat, Iron Horse, and Full Tilt pretty much negate the two weak spots of the Hammersmith, SPD and MAT.

Something I'm toying with though is running a melee heavy list which is not focused around 1 Full Tilted Jack Bullet. Ironclads have a 10" inch threat range on a feated charge, two of them could really ruin somebody's day ... no Full Tilt is one more focus to give to a jack for the charge turn.