Protectorate: 'jack faction?

[Lord Xalys]

When I just started Warmachine, and I was browsing the various battleboxes, I discovered the slightly subpar stats of Menite 'jacks. It wasn't until later that I found out they should be played with a Choir, to compensate for this.

Now, with MKII, it would seem as if Menite 'jacks are quite viable even without the Choir. The MAT/RAT increase is very substantial, and the resilience of the 'jacks (best armored after Khador) has magnified. The support is still there, and now seems more to enhance instead of to compensate.

Really, it seems as if the terrific support the Protectorate can give their 'jacks (Choir, Vassal, Reclaimer, Menofixer) has made it the premier 'jack faction. At any rate, it makes me feel like playing a lot of 'jacks, which is why I started this game so many years ago in the first place.

What are your thoughts? Is the Protectorate MKII's 'jack faction?

P.S. It is interesting to note PoM's lack of 'jack marshals. I do expect the Menofixer to be one though.

LX

[Invader Larb]

Well, we do have the best array of non-warcaster support for warjacks.

I think in MKII it is harder and harder to say that X is the Y faction. The factions are getting too diverse. You can however say that Protectorate can make a very solid jack-heavy list.

In general I think we are almost always better served with a unit or two, some jacks, and some support. We just have so many support choices that it can be tough to decide.

[SnakeEyes]

Yeah, I think it's fair to call us the "premier jack faction" in Mk. II. Which I love, since that's the game's core draw.

[malfred]

The game's core draw for me was the Zealots with holy hand grenades.

Oh well! At least I can still bring those bad boys up to POW 15 with Severius!

[SteveinNYC]

I think we are the best aggressive melee jack faction. We have the best balance of speed, MAT, P+S and armor. Plus, the Choir and the Vassal's Enliven help our jacks get into melee. I don't know if that makes us the jack faction (I think most casters in every faction can run a strong list with two heavies), but my favorite part of MKII is that the jack-heavy armies I always fielded are now much more effective.

[Steampunk Jim]

Protectorates jack capabilities are what brought me back, as opposed to playing, say, Khador. Protectorate can run some mean jacks.

[Lanz]

We are definitely the most 'jack-heavy faction. The only other faction that has nearly as much jack-related support elements is Cygnar, and they are pretty much ALL just mechanicks of varying flavors.

We can push our 'jacks like no other faction can, and while they aren't the fastest(ret) or the toughest(khador), they definitely hit the hardest. Even a Crusader, with Ignite and choir, will scrap just about any 'jack on the charge. We can make more attacks(vassal) have the best buffs(choir, covenant), the best focus efficiancy(Reclaimer, wracks, heirophant).

Yeah. We're the best 'jack faction.

And we have a mechanic incomming.

[Fishman]

And boy has it been hard to adjust.... I still look at my jack line up and ask myself

"Creator why did I take these Mechanika abominations instead of the faithful?"

Than I Infused Trample and buy for a caster kill and go...

"Because they are AWESOME "

[jandrese]

I think it's more accurate to call the Protectorate the Jack Support Faction. We may not have the best jacks (ok, we have the best lights, but moving on), but we have the best jack support by far.

[mobiusdeep]

Protectorates jack capabilities are what brought me back, as opposed to playing, say, Khador. Protectorate can run some mean jacks.
I did love that particular change. All of the cool, big things that I wanted to run originally could be run. Yet, I am a huge fan of infantrymachine. It's what I wanted to play in Mk. I the most, and it's still what I like to play.

So, I picked up Khador as my second :P


In a lot of my games with the Protectorate, I've felt as though my infantry has fallen a bit flat. Well, maybe that's not fair. At the very least, their role has changed from the end to the means. What I mean by this is that I think that we have cheap, tarpit infantry that does its best by being a delivery system for our amazing jacks/casters.

[Lanz]

I think it's more accurate to call the Protectorate the Jack Support Faction. We may not have the best jacks (ok, we have the best lights, but moving on), but we have the best jack support by far.

Why they do better isn't remotely as interesting or important as the fact itself.

Though, if you want to field an army of support elements on their own, feel free.

The 'jack support is part of the 'jack. Just as in real life, even though mechanics and engineers keep machines running, it's the machines that are still the stars of the show, doing the work.

Support just enables the 'jacks, it's still all about the 'jacks.

[SteveinNYC]

In a lot of my games with the Protectorate, I've felt as though my infantry has fallen a bit flat. Well, maybe that's not fair. At the very least, their role has changed from the end to the means. What I mean by this is that I think that we have cheap, tarpit infantry that does its best by being a delivery system for our amazing jacks/casters.

Agreed; for me this is a huge plus.

[jandrese]

That's always been the job of the TFG IMHO. Put them in front and let them take the charge so your Jacks and Knights don't have to.

Zealots used to be pretty good at this too, but with the nerf to the Monolith Bearer they sort of lost that.

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

I think Prime mk2 says it best.

"The Protectorate thrives on protective spells and abilities that use the enemy's actions to make its own forces stronger. It's army contains a strong theme of magic nullification and fire."


That's always been the job of the TFG IMHO. Put them in front and let them take the charge so your Jacks and Knights don't have to.

Zealots used to be pretty good at this too, but with the nerf to the Monolith Bearer they sort of lost that.

They're still good at it. Most jacks still don't have magical weapons. They just aren't as good at retaliating as they used to be.

[Clan]

Anda MAP of SR 2010 ??

[Archibald]

And how about Protectorate in Mangled Metal scenario without all our beloved support?
Do we still have some chances?

[dboeren]

Yeah, I think it's fair to call us the "premier jack faction" in Mk. II. Which I love, since that's the game's core draw.

Other than a few specialized jack casters, I think we've been the premier jack faction for quite some time now.

[Razhem]

And how about Protectorate in Mangled Metal scenario without all our beloved support?
Do we still have some chances?
With our support, we are the best jack faction in the game, plain and simple. Without it though, we really start struggling.

[Oilslick]

And how about Protectorate in Mangled Metal scenario without all our beloved support?
Do we still have some chances?
It's rough. Amon with a light jack swarm is probably out best bet. The Avatar is really nice but the random focus works against him more here.

[Lanz]

And how about Protectorate in Mangled Metal scenario without all our beloved support?
Do we still have some chances?

Using a jack caster like Reznik, or Amon, or anti-caster like Kreoss, with 'jacks that support them, we're about even with any other faction. I've won plenty of mangled metals. Support makes a big difference, but we have enough 'jack/caster synergy to not need it.

[dboeren]

And how about Protectorate in Mangled Metal scenario without all our beloved support? Do we still have some chances?

We have a chance, but it's not a format we tend to excel at because a lot of what makes our jacks so great is the support that won't be there in Mangled Metal.

[Justicator]

Depends on how you want to define "the jack faction"

If your looking for the biggest meanest hard to kill jacks then Khador
If your looking for the jacks that are the most 'technologically advanced' with solid stats and a lot of "hey nifty"s then Cygnar

We don't have the best jacks - our jacks are solid and kind of vanilla on their own. Both Khador and Cygnar and even Mercs outshine us on strait-up comparisson (no caster or field support).

Now which faction has the most TLC for their Jacks - we're probably up at the top or very near it. We have 3 major jack casters - eFeora, Reznik and Raza - which do some pretty cool stuff with our jacks. And of course our on field support does amazing things.

So, are we the best Jack faction? No, our jacks are plain, solid and vanilla but don't necessarily stand up w/o support. We do however have some of the best, if not the best light jacks.

Are we the Jack Support Faction? Yes, our support takes our [ok to good] jacks and often makes then great

Does this make us The Jack Faction? Hard to say, it makes us a good jack faction, but not necessarily The Jack Faction.

We are still definately The Denial Faction and perhaps even The Infantry Faction

[SnakeEyes]

...perhaps even The Infantry Faction
No, that's Cryx.

[Soylent]

So, are we the best Jack faction? No, our jacks are plain, solid and vanilla but don't necessarily stand up w/o support. We do however have some of the best, if not the best light jacks.



I would disagree. There is much envy for the Crusader, Vanquisher, Reckoner and the Avatar(Templar too given a little time). Where we lack is Battlegroup abilities that replace focus such as Full Throttle though Amon comes close. Our jacks are on par if not better than most. It's just that what makes other factions jacks better lies in their casters where ours primarily lies in our support which makes it a tough pill to swallow at times in things like MM/TC. Still I think we fair alright.

[CaladanCid]

Couldn't find a more appropriate thread so let me ask this here, with what casters would you run 2 vanquishers or really 2 of any heavy outside the crusader?

[Razhem]

Couldn't find a more appropriate thread so let me ask this here, with what casters would you run 2 vanquishers or really 2 of any heavy outside the crusader?
With most of them. The only thing you need to get 2 vanquishers working is a min choir and 2 vassals, then just rain the pain.

Hell, most of my lists end up bringing 2 or even 3 heavies. Our light jacks just don't have the same flair lately, although I do love the vigilant.

[malfred]

I guess the new thing I'll have to boycott is two vassal two vanquisher. Time to try
to make the regular Reclaimer work as a focus factory...

[Necra-Chi]

Couldn't find a more appropriate thread so let me ask this here, with what casters would you run 2 vanquishers or really 2 of any heavy outside the crusader?

Razhem has it. that combo can go in ANY list.

But I think the casters it synergises with best are Reznik and E-Feora.

With Reznik the flame belcher become sthe threat that makes your opponnet never want to send a spell at your battlegroup. And he can turn it into a infantry threshing trampling machine with iron aggression, or buff it to take down heavies with ignite. It doesn't demand focus from him which he is a bit selfish with.

E-Feora - again ignite is good, E-Feora loves the fire spam, particularly with a bonded redeemer to really pile it on, and teh vanquishers love the speed boost. Match made in heaven really.

[dicegod]

I see people mentioning our light 'jacks. To me we really only have on premier light: the Revenger.
The Redeemer, Repenter and Dervish are all solid and work well with certain 'casters. The Devout is much in the same boat, but they aren't the best in the game.

I think our heavies such as the Reckoner, Avatar, Vanquisher and Fire of Salvation are really up there for some of the best heavies for their cost in the game - excepting Beast-09 and Death jack.

[CaladanCid]

Just to be a little more clear, I was referring to multiple of the same heavy, I always try to take two heavies...Avatar + one other haha. Efeora is definitely a caster I need to look into using a little more often. I assume that pFeora isn't as good because she wants the focus herself, although two vanqs might be ok with the lack of babysitting required.

[Necra-Chi]

The Vanqs are a little redundant with pFeora. They have perfect synergy with E-Feora.

[Razhem]

If bloody kommandos have taught me anything it is that fire is awesome till you meet a guy that doesn't care. I remember going against Feora with the ESeverius super ranged assassination force. I still got the win because the Feora player played too balls to the wall, but god is it a kick to the nads. So start praying Strakov sucks XD

[dicegod]

I like a reckoner for a second pFeora heavy. Has a gun for early game play and a reach, SPD5 for beating people down in melee.

Makes Feora DEF17 too.

[LordGrimlok]

I've had concerns about AK's too, but trampling heavies and thresher Chains (Vanq) deal with them well too.