The big differences between the stormnouns

[Mar]

So I haven't gotten any infantry yet, and I was looking at nabbing some on my next go around. I just can't really tell any major differences between all our infantry units. Stormguard? Stormblade? Stormlance? Okay, I know that one is cavalry. But what are the strengths and weakness of them? I'll lay down what precursory (pun not intended) knowledge I have.

Stormblades: Hit really hard and can shoot lasers. Apparently the UA gives them a rediculous Assault order.

Stormguard: They have reach and can be shot over by ranged units, but no ranged.

Stormlance: They ride horses.

Precursor Knights: They are tankish I think.

Sword Knight: They look sweet, other than that I have no clue.


I'm running Siege now, and I'll probably get eHaley too. But which of these models do you guys reach for when you want to win? Do I need to run a Stormclad or a THead for them to be effective?

Edit: Clarified

[malfred]

Stormguard and Precursor Knights with UA: Both can stand in front of your
gunline and your gunline can shoot over them. Stormguard also have Set Defense
to help them fend people off while the PKs are immune to magic. Finally,
stormguard attacks build up power for their leader model to release in a big
hit.

Sword Knight are second wave anti-heavy counter chargers. After you've
spent your resources weakening a warjack or warbeast, send them in to
finish it off 1 damage point at a time. Definitely not a frontline unit, as
they'll get eaten before they can fulfill their primary role.

[Jice_]

They don't hit as hard in melee as the guard

I'd like to know how you've come to that conclusion?

Both have CMA so that's not it, and the storm blades start one power higher than the Storm Guard and gain two more as long as they are within 5" of the leader. That's POW 15 total, 17 in CMA's. Guard would require 5 models CMAing to acheive the same power.

It really depends what you need them for, if you need a unit of numbers that clear lots of guys while allowing you to shoot over them you use Guard, if you need a ranged unit that's good at clearing lots of guys and hits rock hard in Melee, you use blades + UA. If you need fast multitask guys to get the primary charge off, or annoy units from affar use lances.

With siege I'd say you can't do wrong with Guard, the guard would pump out volume during feat turn, and allow other shooty guys to fire over them. Bring a Jr for shield and they'll hold up against everything but Errants and Magehunters. Plus with the new storm tower, having guys to bounce off of when you can fire it twice with Haley once you get her will provide usefull when other targets just aren't available. If you plan on getting stormtowers anyway.

[malfred]

I'd be careful with the Stormguard on Siege's feat turn. Just make sure that
your next electro leaps don't hit something you wanted to hit with a really strong
attack, or you'll waste your damage roll.

[Jice_]

I'd be careful with the Stormguard on Siege's feat turn. Just make sure that
your next electro leaps don't hit something you wanted to hit with a really strong
attack, or you'll waste your damage roll.

You can chose not to take an electro leap..:3 (I'm pretty sure anyway, no way to check at the moment)

[Mutton]

Assault is only awesome if you have some way to drop your target's DEF. So if you have Rangers, Deadeye, or TB, take the UA. If not, generally not worth it.

[malfred]

Ooh, that's right. Just remember to choose not to take it.

[Mar]

I'd like to know how you've come to that conclusion?


I'm not sure where I got that.

I was looking for something to slow down people in melee so my Defender, Charger, and B13s could lay some damage into them. So it looks like Stormguard might be my best bet.

[GunMageinTraining]

I like stormblades plenty, and yea... Fix your post. Stormblades hit much harder than SGs any day of the week.

I tend to use SBs more often, as they are cheaper still than SGs, and though reach is awesome, I occasionally find myself shooting with them. We have no end to accuracy buffs, and if they hit stuff, it hurts almost as much as if they had wacked in in CC.

[TKaz84]

With SBs at an effective P+S 15 I can't see any reason to CMA at all unless you are trying to crack a Khador Heavy or hit a Cryx Bonejack.

[Dark Fledgling]

Assault is only awesome if you have some way to drop your target's DEF. So if you have Rangers, Deadeye, or TB, take the UA. If not, generally not worth it.

You kidding me? Assault is always worth it. Not to mention the extra POW 14 on the chance they get a direct hit, but because your in base to base with them, the blast cant scatter and so you get your blast damage roll on the enemy guaranteed and if your lucky it might hit something else as well.
Then of course, theres the fact that you get two more models, one with 5 wounds and the other with a banner.

But yeah, I always assault with my blades, every chance I get : )

-DF

[Jice_]

You kidding me? Assault is always worth it. Not to mention the extra POW 14 on the chance they get a direct hit, but because your in base to base with them, the blast cant scatter and so you get your blast damage roll on the enemy guaranteed and if your lucky it might hit something else as well.
-DF

I'm afraid you've missed something about the UA's AoE, it doesn't scatter on a miss it just doesn't happen, so to even get an AoE they still need to directly hit, thus why you'd want to have the added accuracy.

[malfred]

Too bad it's the Standard's RAT 5 you use for the STorm's Eye, too.

[GunMageinTraining]

Which hits Khadoran Jacks on a 5. Providing a second pow 12/14 hit for every assaulting SB.

It's decidedly worth it, especially in a faction of ranged buffs.

[mrhuettel]

i usually assault anything within reach - your pow14 ranged attacks hit khador and menoth heavies below average and inflict damage on average, not speaking of the following charge attack at pow15+3d6 - inflicting 10 points of damage on average rolls - usually enough to bring any heavy to its knees. if not: be grateful for any additional point of damage inflicted by your ranged attack during assault.

[McDevious]

*Rather than start a SG thread*

Are SGs still frowned upon? I recall them being rated pooly in terms of useability. They seem to fall into the same niche as Precursors -> Screen an incoming force using ranked attack to allow your ranged to operate.

[NaCl Catapulto]

If I can charge it, I'll assault it. The ranged element often puts the extra hurt I need on multiwound models (especially MOW, Cetrati), it rarely has trouble hitting 'jacks, and is just plain fun to pull out vs. low-def swarms (Thralls, Banes)

[NaCl Catapulto]

*Rather than start a SG thread*

Are SGs still frowned upon? I recall them being rated pooly in terms of useability. They seem to fall into the same niche as Precursors -> Screen an incoming force using ranked attack to allow your ranged to operate.

Precursors & their shieldwalls often end up slower than the SG, taking a more defensive bent. The +4 ARM coupled with spell immunity means PK are primo vs ranged options, whereas ARM 18 & single wound crumples to a charge from any remotely competent melee model.
My SG, if not engaging/charging, are often running into position. Set defense offers them greater survivability than the PK's vs melee, and (properly) used electroleap allows the survivors to take down close to double the numbers of light-to-medium infantry.

I think the PK are more of an "anchoring" element, meant to shield against ranged & magic assaults, whereas Stormguard are an offensive anti-melee screen, with a predisposition to dealing with quantity over quality. It's a theme we've got going with all our Stormnouns - they are the most aggressive of all our units.

[Mutton]

*Rather than start a SG thread*

Are SGs still frowned upon? I recall them being rated pooly in terms of useability. They seem to fall into the same niche as Precursors -> Screen an incoming force using ranked attack to allow your ranged to operate.

I think Stormguard are something we've come to accept as a necessary evil; they are overpriced, but hey, it's all we really have in terms of in faction reach infantry.

That said, if you're running a unit as a screen for your ranged units, use PKs. If you want a fairly hard hitting unit you can buff, take SG.

[Dyoria]

Last game I played with the Stormblades they wiped out:
Widowmakers Squad -wiped out in the assault before they swung in melee
Man-o-War Demolitions Corp (min unit) -wiped out in the assault before they swung in melee
Iron Fang Pikeman (min unit) - 1/2 SBs were made stationary by Sorcha's feat, then charged by the IFP and survived (lost 3 men, combination of AS and nStryker's feat arm 23 SB ftw!) of the 4 remaining ones (I had lost one to a random mortar shell) 3 could activate and assault the 6 IFP. They wiped them out.

I cannot stress who the Stormblades are the best infantry we have. Possibly the best infantry in the game.

[TKaz84]

With Stormguard we pay extra for the Electro-Leap. It can be kinda tricky to get it to work the way you want ti too, particularly if another unit has closed to within standard melee range, but when it works well you can easily annihilate a unit in one turn.

[dukeandfrank]

I use the SG to play bodyguard for squishy people like eNemo. Max unit does a semi circle around Nemo's fron arc. Nemo stills sees everything, but is also blocked by them.

[GunMageinTraining]

SG are good, if you can make use of Ranked. If you have shooting elements to hide behind them, then your golden, even jacks such as Cyclones, Defenders, Hunters and Chargers make a good backstop, and can shoot straight through SG units as needed.

Plus... yea, only reach unit we have so we don't have much in the way of options. They aren't bad, but their hitting power is low against all but light/medium infantry.

[whats82]

What stormguard struggle with is the lack of faction buffs to let them hit harder, which is usually their biggest weakness for such expensive infantry - they excel in clearing out other infantry but .. cygnar is oversaturated with infantry denial anyways. Positive charge is the only spell available in cygnar that increases their damage output.

[Gorbad]

Precursors & their shieldwalls often end up slower than the SG, taking a more defensive bent.

They can be, but you don't have to go into shield wall, they can run just as well as any other of out units.
And don't forget there attack power. While not our best offensive melee unit they are MAT7 POW12 with magic Blessed weapons.

And if you bring the UA you can have a turn of weapon master with that.

IMO there biggest drawback is that you pretty much have to bring the UA for them. Making them a 7/10 unit effectively.

[Dyoria]

At Pow 12 they dont really need extra damage buffs. Avg Shield wall (which is not that common) is ARM 18. You need an average roll to kill that unit. And with reach and CMA you can double/triple up on attacks.

The SG work tremendously well with the Thunderhead. They hold the line while it spams lightning. If the SG get charged, the TH simply pulses, frying whats attacking the SGs.

[Defenstrator]

Are SGs still frowned upon? I recall them being rated pooly in terms of useability. They seem to fall into the same niche as Precursors -> Screen an incoming force using ranked attack to allow your ranged to operate. The Stormguard suffer from the rather basic problem of being overpriced. If they were 5/8 like the Stormblades they would see more play, but as is it's a bit of a stretch to stuff them into lists. Another part of the problem is that they aren't very good at being ranked troops. The Precursors with their Shield Wall and Spell Ward are far better at absorbing damage at range. And while the Stormguard have Set Defense, the point of Ranked Attack is that your opponent is forced to close with you because of the shooting that's coming at him, which means the Ranked unit then counter charges the enemy. Also, with their mini-feat the Precursors can mangle most targets they may have to face. Add to that the gimpy electro-leap that often does nothing because it is bouncing onto your own models and the fiddly gun the leader is dragging around and you can't help but feel they aren't really giving full value for what you pay for them.

I'm really hoping they get a kick *** UA in the Cygnar book. I would rather have them be a unit you always take with the UA than be a unit you only take for fun.

[whitekong]

I cannot stress who the Stormblades are the best infantry we have. Possibly the best infantry in the game.

*cough* forgegaurd *cough*

[Defenstrator]

Forgeguard are pretty awesome. With Ashlynn's Quicken spell to speed them up there really isn't much they can't take on. That said, I don't think there's a reach weapon master unit in the game that isn't pretty sweet.

[TKaz84]

Forge Guard don't have a ranged attack, don't give free focus to one of our best jacks, and aren't lightning immune (useful for running the THead and/or bouncing CL). They may do more damage straight-up, but they don't have the synergies the Blades do.

[Defenstrator]

Actually Forge Guard do have Ranked Attack. They just don't have it with Cygnar because we're not faction. And with Arcane Shield on them and Defensive Line they are ARM 21, which is better than any Stormnoun we have. Plus they're 5/8.

[Corevak]

Siege (to me) is more of a gun line caster so you don't want Stormblades, and yes they are very good. Stormgaurd and the Precursor knights (with UA) both work good with the gun line as they have ranked attack. As far as which one you should bring that depends a little on you opponent. If you are going up againts cryxs I'd say Precursor knights with UA they can't be targeted by spells and there hitting power is not that bad. A POW 12 will kill most if not all of the units in cryxs. The stormgaurd with an armor buff can take a charge better that the Precursor knights can and can hit pretty hard with the CMA.

On a different topic I'd try and bring 2 defenders with Siege.

If you do go agains Cryxs then ranged attacks can be a bad idea as they have a lot of stealth and incorporeal.

I have not tried Siege outside the gun line yet.

[Angelus]

Siege (to me) is more of a gun line caster so you don't want Stormblades, and yes they are very good. Stormgaurd and the Precursor knights (with UA) both work good with the gun line as they have ranked attack. As far as which one you should bring that depends a little on you opponent. If you are going up againts cryxs I'd say Precursor knights with UA they can't be targeted by spells and there hitting power is not that bad. A POW 12 will kill most if not all of the units in cryxs. The stormgaurd with an armor buff can take a charge better that the Precursor knights can and can hit pretty hard with the CMA.

On a different topic I'd try and bring 2 defenders with Siege.

If you do go agains Cryxs then ranged attacks can be a bad idea as they have a lot of stealth and incorporeal.

I have not tried Siege outside the gun line yet.

Siege definitely is not relegated to gun line only, and is at his best when he's given a combined force. The ubiquitous defender is never a bad idea, as the POW 15 on feat turn is nasty.

Stormblades are fantastic with Siege. With Foxhole they'll be DEF 16 while advancing, which protects them from most non-CRA ranged attacks. On feat turn, forget about it. On a charge they are dice+5 on a Khador heavy, rolling 3d6, not counting any CMA's. Rift is also another spell that helps the Stormblades, as Siege can use it to stifle charges. Finally, Force Hammer lets the Blades hit with their assault order, which means POW 14's followed by POW 15's. That kills almost anything.

And in regards to Stealth, Mage Sight says that Siege and his battlegroup don't care ;).

[Gorbad]

If you do go agains Cryxs then ranged attacks can be a bad idea as they have a lot of stealth and incorporeal.

That's what Gunmages are for as they don't care about either of those things:D

[TKaz84]

Actually Forge Guard do have Ranked Attack. They just don't have it with Cygnar because we're not faction. And with Arcane Shield on them and Defensive Line they are ARM 21, which is better than any Stormnoun we have. Plus they're 5/8.

I was referring to the fact that the SBs have a ranged attack, not ranked attack. Still I agree that for raw damage and staying power the Forge Guard is better. The Stormblades simply work better with the other faction models we have.

[Jorek]

I have not tried Siege outside the gun line yet.

Give it a try. You will be suprised how well it works. In MKI, Siege and the tower of power was one of the most reliable delivery mechanism for SBs. And the damage output a CC-list has on feat turn is amazing.