Khadoran board control

[zombie-a-go-go]

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Khador, at first glance, doesn't have a lot of board control (Old Witch notwithstanding) and its ranged options are somewhat scattershot, to say the least (though this may change with the Rifle Corps - still, stick with me here).

Being a pButcher player, I've been mulling over ideas on how to deliver Butcher and his jacks into melee without getting shot to pieces on the advance. Now, I have no inherent means of keeping my enemy from shooting me to pieces or preventing them from getting the charge on me - thus far I've just relied on a bunch of jacks and mechaniks to suck up the hits until I get there.

Having been made aware that I'm going to be facing a Xerxis + Cetrati + Tyrant Commander list this week, and being determined to stick with pButcher and his Juggernauts, what do I possibly have that is going to keep my jacks from being destroyed on my opponent's Feat turn?

How do I keep the core of my army from getting hit first?

The answer I've come up with - and believe could serve well against a variety of matchups - is to use Uhlans and Kossites as my unit choices.

There have been a few threats recently about the use of Uhlans' threat range to get the first devastating strike off on ranged jacks and other hard-hitters that will tear you up from range. The Uhlans are to be used as a first-strike against Defenders, Cannoneers, Vanquishers - anything that can outrange Butcher and his plodding melee jacks to deliver a fierce blow and then muddy things up until I get my battlegroup there.

Kossites are the ultimate infantry tarpit (obviously jacks will just trample out). They're cheap, come in anywhere on the board, and can Reform after the charge to tie up additional models if they killed their charge target. Furthermore, since they can come in behind a gunline (or a Cetrati brick) the opponent has to spend valuable resources that would normally be expended on shooting up or charging your battlegroup on removing the pesky woodsmen. Make no mistake - the Kossites are going to drop like flies once the enemy devotes their attention to them - but in a game that normally goes three turns, I envision something like this...

Enemy turn 1: Advance. Maybe get off a few shots.
Enemy turn 2: Deal with Uhlans and Kossites.
Enemy turn 3: Deal with Butcher and a handful of Juggernauts in melee.

Now, obviously it's not going to be that easy - but it's the start of a general battlefield strategy, which is to get skirmishing and cavalry units into the opponent's battle-line as quickly as possible so that Khador's heavy-hitting melee can minimize the attacks sent their way while they advance and maximize the chance of getting the first strike. Every turn force your opponent to react instead of act, and seize the momentum of the game.

Now, I welcome your thoughts, critiques, and refinements on this strategy so that we can crush our enemies beneath our feet, hear the lamentations of their women, blah blah yackity-smackity. :)

[Caecus Scius]

There are thousands of ways to be a first strike khador army... I'm late for work or I would go through them all, but needless to say, Welcome to Khador, try and read this board, you will pick up a lot more advanced strategies than run right at them with kossites.

[phantem2]

Hrm, I have much the same problem with my EButch list although I field Doomies which with a couple manhunters and widowmakers make for a lot of different options when choosing what to shoot at. and the later of the 2 of the 3 are very difficult to take out at range.

One thing that comes to mind is Manhunters, jut a thought mind you, since they have stealth. Its only two models but it may make the opponent sweat if he sees a pair coming his way as the front line force, tying up some vital models as he tries to get rid of them.

Just a few thoughts on my part.

[unbanned]

AD models with stealth work well here. I also love pButcher. Croes Cuts are cheap, stealth fodder. Poison ranged too, not too shabby. Yuri can wipe out trenchers and long gunners with ease, also stealth. Iron flesh plus gorman or greys makes Butch very nice against ranged. War dog is an auto include at 1pt. We have ARM 20,21 on our Jacks. Not too many things are gonna chop that down in 2 turns form shooting. If they do however, use some cheap mechs to fix the boxes.

I never have a problem with ranged with Butcher. The lack of pathfinder is much more his bane, IMO

[OrsusSmash]

I think you're on to a very solid start at how Khador does board control. We don't have the same tools as the other factions, but we certainly have some excellent options available.

I find that a "rushing" model/unit is one of the most basic, and typically effective, Khador board control strategies. All of our AD stuff and our cav models do a great job at either 1) drawing fire, or 2) warding off a chunk of the board. Plus, those models are typically resilient/fast enough that they can cause some damage in addition to being a good distraction.

And then there's the Kossites. I've used them extensively, and frankly I think they're more important now in Mk. II than they were in Mk. I, what with the prevalence of shooting models and powerful warjack support (*glances at Menoth*). It took me awhile to figure out the best ways to use the unit, but now that I have a good handle on them, I almost never make a list without them, and they're a scourge in my gaming group.

They aren't always easy to fit into a 25 or 35 point list, but I find them absolutely clutch when I need to build a "take all comers" list and I'm using someone who runs an army that is particularly vulnerable to shooting (such as either Butcher, or Karchev.)

[Caecus Scius]

Ok, now that I have a little bit of time, here is what I do to roll up with the butcher and put the hurt on people.


First off... Kayzay with Iron Flesh. Stealth against shooting, and Def 19 in close combat make them virtually immune to most everything and they run 10" a turn to get into combat as fast as possible. Just move them up and engage the enemy if you can't charge, they won't be able to kill but maybe just 1 or 2 models, and using the UA, they can then charge through the enemy they are engaged with to something behind and assassinate that target. They can kill light jacks with just 2 or 3 on the charge. AND once you get into combat with something u sometimes can cast fury on them to rape face... it makes them easier to hit by loosing def, so only do this when you positively absolutely have to kill everything around them (kill turn).

I use Kodiaks with the Butch, just for the chain attack and the ability to run through trees and stuff. The butch is going to be slowed down a bit, but if you can get him within range of his jacks but BEHIND some trees, that is ussually a safe place, while they can use the trees to provide cover a little.

Mechanics... just take a squad, move them up with the jacks and you won't have trouble erasing any damage they do to your jacks while you advance.

Flank with doom reavers or yuri and manhunters. With the kayzay on the feild and the wall of 2-3 jacks in front of butcher, the reavers become the only thing worth shooting at, so they will get shot and die, so you need to be careful to move them around a flank without exposing them to shooting.


These will help you to avoid shooting too much, but personally, I tend to outshoot my enemies with Khador, thats just my preferred playstyle. I like to take a few mortars and destroyers or a behemoth, and rain down tons of AOEs... which are the best type of shooting attack IMHO... very versatile. Winterguard can also be good with Ironflesh and tend to be a swiss army knife of the army. They are good at anything, but not great at any one thing and you can use them to confuse and misdirect your opponents.

Here is the biggest thing you need to learn. If your enemy is playing YOUR game, they've already lost. Put them inbetween a rock and a hard place, and the pressure will force them into mistakes. They are not going to be more mobile than you if they are on their heels the whole battle, but becareful yourself not to back a wounded enemy into a corner, they will often take advatange of your over confidence and that's when you get killed yourself.

[BlueSkies]

I usually do not use them for this purpose but it has come in handy on occasion, regardless, this unit has a lot of synergy with the Butcher so it's not a bad idea to take them just because.

They are the Iron Fang Pikeman + UA.
If you can't afford to get things shot up, run the IFP and pop the mini-feat.
That's a 12" run + 6" reform advance movement into shield wall. Add the fact they have reach and you covered 20" for all the models except the standard who doesn't have a weapon and is a perfect model to keep in Iron Flesh range to seal the tarpit deal. I rather not use the unit for this cause, but it has come in handy occasionally.


As mentioned Kayazy and Kossites are good for this.
Personally, I think Kossites are great for the Butcher, b/c even a min unit can be quite deadly (Fury+Feat+Charge = Doom Reaver damage range for 4 pts). Usually, the Kossites are there for the tarpit deal, but occasionally, I've found that combo to kill off models who weren't expecting the Kossites to hit that hard. Plus I do like the fact the Kossites do help the mortars out by psyching opponents to place the squishier models concentrated closer to the center of the board.

At the 50 pt range with that many troopers, might consider Alexia as well. Risen's is obviously, but I've found the "free" weapon master solo running off to other enemy models helpful for the cause as well. Plus you can voluntary break formation, so sending a lone risen or thrall warrior to be a spotter for your WG Mortar bombard or an arc lighting point for Midwinter is very helpful to do some precision strikes. A "brave" Kossite can substitute for this cause as well.

[General Nemo]

I use Uhlans in most of my lists as a hard tarpit to pin down ranged elements or flanking models. They make an excellent fast response and can take a hit to boot (Not to mention how much damage they can do).

[Kommissar Golovko]

pButcher vs Xerxis will most likely mean Xerxis will have the advantage in Board Control since Xerxis will most likely be casting Inhospitable Ground to slow down pButcher. So suggestions would be to take models with Pathfinder or Relentless Charge,

Kayazy with their high Def would also work.

Xerxis will be low on Fury most of the time so try to time your charges and popping of feat right. Xerxis maybe like a Butcher but he isn't the same deal.

[Deathraven]

As someone who plays both Skorne and Khador I can tell you that Xerxis has a real problem dealing with high def. He and his army hit like a ton of bricks but he has no way of give out mat bonuses, so if you take a reasonable amount of def 15+ (iron flesh ftw!) then he will have serious issues.
I'd also recommend keeping your jacks behind your infantry and bringing them up when he's engaged to avoid being charged. As you already know Cataphracts can take out high armoured targets with ease on feat turn.