LoE player converting

[maxvonlaibach]

I've been playing the game for just over a year, runnig the blighted dragons with some success. I've been looking for a WM faction as a side to LoE for some time now, and since PoM is consistently underrepresented in my meta, chucking around a few holy hand grenades seemed like my idea of fun.

pKreoss (-5)
- Revenger (6)
- Reckoner (8)

Avatar (11)
Full Zealots (6)
- UA (2)
Min. TFG (4)
- UA (2)
Wracks (1)

Now, on to the questions & comment requests:

- I don't particularly like the exemplar models, is a more flameguard-centric force viable?
- Should a choir or a vassal be fitted into this list, perhaps through downgrading the avatar, or getting rid of the TFG?
- As far as branching out is concerned, I like Reznik and maybe Thyra. Would that list be a decent starting point?

Thanks in advance.

[Commander Vimes]

- I don't particularly like the exemplar models, is a more flameguard-centric force viable?
- Should a choir or a vassal be fitted into this list, perhaps through downgrading the avatar, or getting rid of the TFG?
- As far as branching out is concerned, I like Reznik and maybe Thyra. Would that list be a decent starting point?

- yes. TFG is a very (very) good tarpit, and although Zealots seem to be played less in these forums, they can rock a lot. Daughters are also viable (more so with Thyra). Consider Rhupert Carvolo the Piper of Ord for the TFG instead of the UA.
- yes. At least a Choir. The Vassal is one of the best support pieces in the game, but you must decide how much you want to spent on jack support.
- @Reznik: many players will assure you he is not top tier. Many (other) players will assure you he is the best fun in the game. So if you like to shove three heavies up your opponents throat and leave everything else wracked, you will have A LOT of fun. From your list, he likes the REckoner and the Wracks. Some troops are good as well (e.g. the TFG with ignite), but troops are not his core. There is some discussion whether the Avatar is a good choice for Reznik, and I agree with Lanz that he preferres balltegroup jacks. @ Thyra: whether she is good or not will we see in one year or so. IMHO she likes an arcnode, to the Revenger is a good choice. Furthermore, Wracks are always good with 6FOC casters. Then Thyra likes a lot of troops, although the Zealots won't profit from Carnage quite often.

I'd personally recommend to take full TFG or Rhupert Carvolo instead of the TFG UA.

[maxvonlaibach]

I like your advice a lot, since my "army" currently consists of bits and pieces won/gotten really cheap from other players: Rhupert, Revenger, Vassal. In your opinion, does pKreoss have the capacity to support two 'jacks? I really like the Templar, so I'd go for something like the following:

pKreoss
Templar
Reckoner
Revenger

Full Zealots etc.
Min TFG
Rhupert
Wrack + mechanic/Reclaimer/Vassal/TFG UA

I really like the flameguard models, there is an elegant simplicity to them, which can't be said about most of WM/H minis.

[tzeentchling]

If you are taking 2 or more jacks, take a choir. Period. It's the best 2 points you can spend in a Protectorate list. Since you played LoE, they're like better versions of Shepherds/Forsaken. I would suggest, for this point level, to go with only a single unit of either Zealots or TFG. Full TFG + Rhupert + Covenant is a good base of support, and they are good with Defender's Ward too. Alternately, Zealots can be a great unit that goes invulnerable for a turn, and can take advantage of Kreoss' feat slightly better.

The first list is probably a bit better than the second, simply because there's a lot of things Kreoss wants to do with his focus and you have three focus-heavy jacks. If you went with this, I would probably drop the TFG and UA, and take a choir, a Vassal, and a 2-point solo of your choice - Covenant, Allegiant, or Gorman all being decent choices. Then, when you move up to 50 points you can easily add in the full unit of TFG, Covenant, Piper, etc.

[Arch4ngel]

Welcome to my side! ^_^

First, before anything else, I'd like to commend you for realizing that pKreoss loves him an arc node. A lot of newer Menoth players mistake him for a caster who likes to mix things up himself, and he simply doesn't have the stat line for it.

Second, I think you're missing out on a significant amount of fun for not having Exemplar models. I LOVE me some basic Knights Exemplar, and the Exemplar Errants absolutely sing under any caster that has Defender's Ward. That said, you can definitely still make a "competitive" list without them.

I can't speak to Reznik, as I don't own him, and all of us are still trying to figure Thyra out, but I recommend picking up pSeverius. He's got an easy learning curve, and he's one of our most potent Warcasters. He -quite literally - just makes everything better. He's really our Vayl in a lot of ways. Finally, as you're looking to expand your collection, this thread (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?41726-Building-a-Menoth-Army-answering-where-to-go-after-the-battlebox) is a treasure trove.

On your list specifically, I need you to give me a narrative. How do you see fights going with that list? What's your plan for using his feat? Are you looking to use Lamentation a lot?

The archetypal pKreoss list is the "Pop-n-Drop" which includes lots of ranged stuff to make use of the rampant def5 your opponent's stuff has on the turn you pop feat and knock all his troops down. Basically, kill enough troops that he can't recover, or just assassinate, whichever makes you happy.

This list isn't set up to do that, which is perfectly fine, but it raises the questions of "Why pKreoss?" and "What kind of tactics do you favor?"

[maxvonlaibach]

It never dawned on me to take the allegiant, the test field card doesn't inspire. It's settled then, my first list will be the first list above minus TFG, plus 'jack support (and perhaps a hierophant or Gorman).

It's a pity that my local meta hardly ever holds 50 pts. events, most games are @ 35 pts. level. I'm still getting those TFGs though, hope they'll come in handy sometime.

Thanks for the feedback!

[tzeentchling]

Again, you can always replace full Zealots + UA with Full TFG+Rhupert, it's a reasonable switch. Adding the Covenant makes that even better, really, because Tough+No KD is a good combo when it works.

[maxvonlaibach]

Archangel: I've played Cryx for a while, and am currently figuring out Vayl, so the importance of an arc node is not lost on me, as it might be on other hordes players. As for exemplar, I guess I'll buy some vanilla KEs first, then the whole KEE deal, but first units on my list are zealots, TFG, daughters. As for the narrative you asked for, it's a simple plan really: attrit the other guy to death; first use zealots' minifeat to make my army resilient enough to survive the alpha strike, then feat and return the favour. After my feat turn the enemy should still have trouble retaliating, as most of his models will be knocked down, and I'm hoping for another round of beating his face. That's the basic plan vs. melee armies anyway, vs. ranged it's basically passage + run for the objectives.

Tzeenchling: I'm looking forward to trying out both units, and the Covenant is high on my shopping list, although not amongst the very first items.

[idk40k]

Just read the link that Arch put and i have to say i wish i read that before buying my models. I would suggest trying out what Moknim said. Start with the jacks and build from there.