bloodgorgers in MK2

[Gerlak]

i just saw the new bloodgorger and gerlak cards fro MK2 and at fist i was kinda bitter about how they got debuffed after i spend 60 bucks getting them:mad: but after reading through the rules a couple of times i realized it wast THAT bad because they were still better than average troops:o. But the loss of their blood drinkers ability still bothers me since it takes away the theme of getting progressively better as the game went on.:confused: i want to know others opinion on this topic since i cant really decide if i like it or not:confused:

[Jyggdrasil]

Blood drinker was powerful, flavorsome and fluffy, but I file it away as one of the many, many things that went away to make mk2 a leaner, meaner and more enjoyable game.

My view is that they remain 'good' even after the change. I also believe that Cryx remains fluffy and tasty (http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=5141). So overall, I think that trade was worthwhile.

[Ghyrrshyld]

i just saw the new bloodgorger and gerlak cards fro MK2 and at fist i was kinda bitter about how they got debuffed after i spend 60 bucks getting them:mad: but after reading through the rules a couple of times i realized it wast THAT bad because they were still better than average troops:o. But the loss of their blood drinkers ability still bothers me since it takes away the theme of getting progressively better as the game went on.:confused: i want to know others opinion on this topic since i cant really decide if i like it or not:confused:
I strongly dislike it. There are some who will say that it's something we have to trade for a more playable game... but I honestly don't see other factions having to sacrifice abilities like that. I mean, the exemplar get tougher as the game goes on, why is it so difficult for the Gorgers to do the same?

[Gerlak]

gerlak felt it to They basically neutered him and his ist half the blood drinking general he used to be:mad: Hopefully the gerlak and company work out better than their cards would indicate but i cant help feeling ripped off:mad:

[blakeh1]

Personally I do not miss the old rules at this point. The Bloodgorgers are my main unit in just about every list. I think they are better off the gate since you do not have to collect bloodmarks to start making them better.

As far as getting tougher like Knights Exemplar, Bloodgorgers already have access to Tough innately, and with Gerlak around can't be knocked down. Plus you can have a 10 man unit, not limited to 6 period. If they had something like that, they would probably be up around 7/10 points. I like where they are at now for 5/8 points.

[mellchia]

Before this goes any further, here are a few links discussing the issues already.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=5701&highlight=bloodgorgers

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=3861&highlight=bloodgorgers

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=1879&highlight=bloodgorgers

That should cover most of what's about to be said.

[2LiveIs2Die]

gerlak felt it to They basically neutered him and his ist half the blood drinking general he used to be:mad: Hopefully the gerlak and company work out better than their cards would indicate but i cant help feeling ripped off:mad:
Have you even used them in mark 2? They are one of the best infantry options we have, and im quite serious. Yes, the statement "loosing unique abilities makes you lose flavor..." but they are still unique for game play. They can still waste stuff away and keep coming, and I'm sorry but my opinion is the people who complain the most about are either trying to stick to the mark one play style, or haven't bothered trying them.
Face it, cryx changed the most, play style at least. And we got better for it. Yea, shadow shift, blood drinker, etc. Cool ideas, but there were pages and mounds of errata and rulings based on abilities single models had. Shadow Shift being one of the most rules heavy abilities there ever was.
If you no longer like the play style of cryx, then play something different. If you no longer like cryx because you are having problems winning with them, play them different.

The models still have flavor and the game is easier to play all around because of the loss of some over-the-top abilities.

As far as gerlak being "neutered"... are you freakin' serious? Changed and neutered are different. I have wasted away entire armies with just Gerlak in mark 2 events. I ate through an entire unit of shield wall Iron Fang Pikeman with a single activation of him. He is still an over the top solo that if your opponent lets him live he will regret it, period.

Don't judge models based on their stats, play the game, then complain.
And don't play mark 1 lists and tactics, a new game requires new train of thought. Which starts at the drawing board, long before game play.

[blakeh1]

I have to agree, Gerlak did not get nuetered, he just got mroe focused on what he was meant to do, shred infantry

Sure he no longer gets up to jack level STR and ARM, and like most simlar things it was toned down in that respect, however, with Killing Spree and Bloodthrist he can now charge in a rip through units singelhandedly in one turn. If your opponent is not careful in placement (for several reasons ranging from inexperienced against Gerlak to being forced to do so because of terrain/objectives) he literally can have his entire front line of infantry wiped out by one guy making average rolls. Even if he does space out to avoid it, you are still at an advantage because he is forced to react to Gerlak's potential threat and then could wind up leaving too much space open for other things to get through

[coolwhip1]

I don't have the cards and I'm going from memory of the thread that addressed the change, so correct me if I'm wrong.

They need to be taken with Gerlak, which is something I would complain about, except that we really need to do with the Banes and Tartarus. It ends up being cheaper than taking Banes and Tartarus anyways. They give Cryx a highly effective weapon against Hordes (again thanks to Gerlak). I believe it was changed to just +2" charge against living models and they kept Gang, correct?

For example: two Gorgers charge a beast with a threat range of 10.5" (not spectacular but okay). With average rolls, two Gorgers can put out an average damage of 50-ARM on the charge attack and 46-ARM on the second when using Gang. Two Gorgers have the potential to kill any warbeast except the toughest heavies on AVERAGE rolls. Even if their target lives, it will be seriously hurt and minimal effort is required to finish it off. To top it all off, they are medium based models that can block LoS to our medium based casters: Morty, Gaspy, Goreshade, and the Egregore. Never underestimate how important that can be; especially since there's so much crap out there that can reach across the board to kill stuff.

Overall I like them alot: they provide an effective tool against Hordes, they can be very survivable with the right rolls, easily become an immovable tar pit with good rolls, causing Terror is awesome now that CMD actually matters, and living models are a nice change of pace for the undead loving faction that we are.

[blakeh1]

I don't have the cards and I'm going from memory of the thread that addressed the change, so correct me if I'm wrong.

They need to be taken with Gerlak, which is something I would complain about, except that we really need to do with the Banes and Tartarus. It ends up being cheaper than taking Banes and Tartarus anyways. They give Cryx a highly effective weapon against Hordes (again thanks to Gerlak). I believe it was changed to just +2" charge against living models and they kept Gang, correct?

I wouldn't say that. Gerlak offers them the benefit of moving an inch after killing which sometimes allows them to get use out of the second attack, or shift to engage something and knockdown immunity but those are not really icing on the cake rather than necessary to make the unit function.

Unlike Banes, they do not need an outside solo to allow them extra movement (at least against living models ) or give them a MAT bonus (because of Gang and Bloodthirst). Also they cause terror, not just have a solo that does.

[Ghyrrshyld]

With average rolls, two Gorgers can put out an average damage of 50-ARM on the charge attack and 46-ARM on the second when using Gang.
Im fairly certain that's not how that should look.

A more honest, more reasonable way to figure out how much damage they do would be to say to say they deal 6 damage each on the charge on an armor 18 beast, and 2 damage each on the offhand. Which makes

Two Gorgers have the potential to kill any warbeast except the toughest heavies on AVERAGE rolls.
Absolutely untrue. You don't just add all of their damage up and then subtract armor.

Not even close.

[DemonCalibre]

I disagree with Bloodgorgers needing to be taken with Gerlak

Lets look at the math a bit.

With Blood Thirst they have a 10.5 inch threat range, which is nearly the same as most Offensive Shock Infantry(See Iron Fangs). With Gang they are Mat 8(Vastly Superior to Alternatives), They are Power 13(Same as a Blasting Pike), and most importantly have two attacks.

While they don't have amazing armor/defense their armor is high enough they don't have to sweat AOE, Tough gives them the ability to occasionally eat a hit they shouldn't live through and still be kicking(this is particularly useful when you get punched, a couple of tough tests can really make the differance).

All and All they are quite good, particularly for 8 points, Bringing Gerlak with them is Gravy, Why? because Gerlak is plenty good to take on his own, his Tech with Blood Gorgers is total bonus.

[69Lazarus]

The problem is for some - they simply aren't as overpowered as they were before. The unit is totally worth their current cost in MK II. Numerous threads on this already....

[Gerlak]

true they arent overpowered in MK2 but just the sheer drop off makes it look worse if they hadnt been very good in the first place and were expensive it wold have looked better, but now they dont have furious charge and +2 to speed against living models is no substitute. They no longer gain super tough at 2 kills and no boosted attack rolls a 4 kills. instead they cant be knocked down and boosted attack and damage rolls against damaged living models which isnt as good as it sounds unless a bunch of shock troppers or bastions are on the table. Gang in nice but they had that in MK 1. Gerlak lost flying steel and he also lost his blood glutton ability along with the spending of those blood marks to reactivate the unit. With that said i dont think that its quite as bad as i thought in the first place.

what i would really like to see in an expansion of the bloodgorger theme with mabye a warcaster or a unit attachment, hey how about blighted longriders. The idea behind them is still original. thanks for commenting on this thread

[Gerlak]

Have you even used them in mark 2? They are one of the best infantry options we have, and im quite serious. Yes, the statement "loosing unique abilities makes you lose flavor..." but they are still unique for game play. They can still waste stuff away and keep coming, and I'm sorry but my opinion is the people who complain the most about are either trying to stick to the mark one play style, or haven't bothered trying them.
Face it, cryx changed the most, play style at least. And we got better for it. Yea, shadow shift, blood drinker, etc. Cool ideas, but there were pages and mounds of errata and rulings based on abilities single models had. Shadow Shift being one of the most rules heavy abilities there ever was.
If you no longer like the play style of cryx, then play something different. If you no longer like cryx because you are having problems winning with them, play them different.

The models still have flavor and the game is easier to play all around because of the loss of some over-the-top abilities.

As far as gerlak being "neutered"... are you freakin' serious? Changed and neutered are different. I have wasted away entire armies with just Gerlak in mark 2 events. I ate through an entire unit of shield wall Iron Fang Pikeman with a single activation of him. He is still an over the top solo that if your opponent lets him live he will regret it, period.

Don't judge models based on their stats, play the game, then complain.
And don't play mark 1 lists and tactics, a new game requires new train of thought. Which starts at the drawing board, long before game play.


your actually right i think i went a little over board with the statement neutered.:D

as for playing cryx, i will still stick with them, i think MK 2 presents a lot more interesting ways to play especially with deneghra who is my favorite caster.

i am a loyal cryxian forever and they have won me a lot of games that i probably shouldnt have won and the models are the best in miniature gaming as far as what i have seen.:D

[Ghyrrshyld]

your actually right i think i went a little over board with the statement neutered.:D

as for playing cryx, i will still stick with them, i think MK 2 presents a lot more interesting ways to play especially with deneghra who is my favorite caster.

i am a loyal cryxian forever and they have won me a lot of games that i probably shouldnt have won and the models are the best in miniature gaming as far as what i have seen.:D
If we were at the beginning, and I was seeing the Gorgers for the first time, and hadn't read the fluff, and hadn't seen how cool they used to be, I would like them more than I do now.

I just wish they were fluffier. Also, Slaughterborn's model puts the "Laughter" in Slaughter.

The model compared to his size in the fluff?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2akg45i.gif