Help against this Resurgence Seige list.

[hairsolo]

Hello all,

My friends and I are gearing up for a Resurgence Tournament in the 25, 35, 50 pt format.

So we have been practicing by using the rules, format, and time constraints of the Resurgence Rules. My friend plays this Seige build and its fricking nasty. It has a counter to everything I try. The build and how it plays is below.

Army Points: 25
Name Cost
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane -5
Ironclad 7
Defender 9
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (6) 6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (undefined 2
Journeyman Warcaster 3
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios 3

Defender is Jack Martialed to the Arcane Tempest Gun Mages

This list has a counter for everything. If I bring lots of armor in cheap jacks he can use Breech and the Defender / Ironclad / ATGM Combine range attack to cut them down pretty quick. If I bring stealth he can take them out pretty quick with Mage Sight on Seige or True Sight on the ATGM and UA. If I throw tons of AOE's at him he can fox hole for 0 blast damage. I tried using High Def and the ATGM's can pick them off from 14 (snipe) inches away on with a effective MAT 10 (aim).

This list can disrupt, steal your focus, present high armor targets, take out high armor targets, deal with stealth and high def, completely disregard AOEs from Fox Hole, shoot me from across the board, knock me back d3 inches per shot with the ATGM and generally keep me from doing anything about it.

This is the list I was going to run
Army Points: 25
Name Cost
Butcher of Khardov -6
Juggernaut 7
Devastator 9
Marauder 7
Kayazy Assassins (6/10) 8

Jacks get ripped apart by Breech
Butcher gets CRA by ATGM or disrupted by Eiyrss
Kayazy get shot to pieces by ATGM or Explosivo on EVERYTHING

Any Ideas?

Any is appreciated.

[hausdorff space]

I don't know how sensible any of this is... I've been out of the Khador loop for a little while, but:

Take a eSorscha Winterguard list? Bob and Weave + Iron flesh + Blizzard will make your mainline hard to hit, which should cause him issues. Follow it up with ranged options (Widowmakers, Eiryss, Fieldguns, Mortars), which without snipe should come close to outranging him.

You could even play pSorscha, she'd need a bit more care to be effective (and not die), but you could pounce and freeze his whole army... you'd just need to capitalise on that properly.

[Kommissar Golovko]

Ditch a jack and get some fast movers or AD chaps in. Fast movers would be the Uhlans. AD chaps would be Yuri and the Manhunters. Let the fast movers or AD chaps handle the ATGM. Probably switch the Dev into a Destroyer or Decimator and rain death from afar esp if you can get some Mortars in.

[whats82]

pSorscha might work. If he's hiding in the fox hole, everything in foxhole does not block LoS, so you can windrush up and freeze everything, then drop some boosted bombards and mortar onto siege's Def9 ***. Tempest on siege works too since it does not do blast damage, it will wipe out his ATGMs hiding in foxhole. That'll force him to play things slightly differently.

IFP with UA would work too, just run up and use minifeat, you can engage from 20" away, which would be sufficient to stop his gun mages who don't have gunfighter. His list lacks the number of melee attacks required to clear away IFPs so he would struggle with those.

Gun mages have rat9 with aim, not 10, only their UA have base rat 8.

[thrasymacus]

I also lose constantly to Siege, as in almost every single game. He really does have a counter to everything.

Trencher smoke blocks LOS even if they don't. Put them on a hill and they are almost unkillable.

Rocket Cannon gun will find your stealth troops. Explosivo will ruin your troops and bypass windwall.

I hate that guy.

[GorBLiTZ]

woodsmen engaging the ATGM
Karchev slide to engage from far away
Vlad can feat to get your jacks in from a distance.
The best anti-Eiyrsis is another Eyrisis
Those are my ideas.......

[hairsolo]

These all great ideas and I really appreciate them.

I was thinking of trying the Widowmakers. Unfortunately he fox holes his ATGM and they can get their def up to 19 (15 + cover) Also they ignore concealment and cover.

Same with Mortars. Fox Hole nullifies Blast damage so both the Mortar and the Devastator are ineffective.

I think some ranged is in order. I'm thinking of taking out the Marauder and putting in the Destroyer and dropping Kayazay to a unit of 6.

The problem is if I want to beat this list I probably can but then im gimped for other lists.......

His 35 and 50 are even worse. For 35 he drops in Old Rowdy and a stormsmith and for 50 hes putting in Nyss hunters and Broke 13th.

Sigh.

[Malkav13]

Zerkova might be the answer that you are looking for. Her feat will completely shut down his shooting for a turn, allowing you to close the distances that you need to tackle his ranged threats. Throw in some Kossites to help engage his ranged stuff and you have a great start. For Eiryss, a manhunter or two should help do the trick quite nicely. That and some greylord cloud cover.

[Caecus Scius]

I take this same list, but without a ironclad and with more shooting.

Kayzay assassins... with iron flesh even his guys won't be able to hit you very well.

But really, I like this list to take him out

Karchev 2x destroyers, 1 behemoth, mechanics, wardog, 2 mortars.


You will AOE spam his gun mages to death very early, and can concentrate fire on the defender taking him out. Use the tow tricks to get around and stay at range. Put your mechanics back behind some terrain where they are safe, and if you get damaged, run back to them and take a whole turn or two to heal up... then come back out and do it again. We call it the Nascar Pit Stop

He has only one way to counter this well... Foxhole. When he does this, he is highly immobile, this protects his gunmages, but then he is stuck in one place... You can't AOE him, but your shots CAN penetrate and kill his jacks first and then his guys individually, or trample over the group of them tightly bound with behemoth and buy attacks to finish off his caster if need be.

[whats82]

If you're going ranged, take Nyss hunter and WG blob, they both have ability to ignore cover and take on the ATGMs.

That siege list is especially good in taking on a few hard targets and he would struggle to fight an infantry swarm at decent DEF, which the Nyss and ironfleshed WGs would represent. You can also run nyss into engagement and watch as the ATGMs become almost useless.

[marskitten]

I'm going to second the IFP rush tactic. Drop a jack for a full unit plus UA. Once they're about 20 inches away, give the IFP declare defensive formation minifeat, then charge or run order, then have the entire unit run 12 inches except one guy, have him exactly 10 inches back from the officer. Now advance everyone except the Banner/Officer up another 6 inches and have them pair or line up. Bannerman and officer should be shieldwalled together and that last dude in the back should stay put. You should have 5-9 dudes engaging their ATGM, 2 anchoring the unit behind them and 1 way back.

Now move the butcher up and Iron flesh the dudes from the dude in the back, without putting him at risk. That should take care of the ATGM as they're mat 5 and pow 7 in melee. Meaning they'll need 11 to hit and 12s to kill.

Move butcher and the jacks up. Remember he has no Arc nodes so you don't need to worry too much about force hammer at the moment. Run jacks up field towards his jacks and the Kayazys at Eiyrss at maximum spread. The point with them is to get them engaged in melee with her so she dies.

Next Turn he'll have killed 2-3 IFP but the ATGM should be still engaged. Have the IFP kill them in melee, run the jacks forward/charge and put Iron Flesh on the butcher and keep him away from the jacks so you don't get forcehammered. If the jacks are going to engage either of the other jacks: have butcher pop feat and give all but 2 focus to the engaging jacks. Under feat you should easily scrap at least 1 of the jacks.

3/4th turn.By now the Kayazys should have either caught Eyirss or put her out of the Butcher's way. Either way, good. Finish off the remaining jack/s, straggling ATGM if any and have either the IFP or jacks try to engage seige. If you do this you've one the game.

Remember to lead with Marauder as the only charge target to his jacks. So during your turn you can easily counter charge with the Juggernaut and crush the fool and won't expose both jacks to being Breached to death.

I say drop the Devastator because its an amazing anti swarm jack but otherwise is kinda useless when you've got a buncha dudes.

[hairsolo]

That is a great idea marskitten. If I drop the Devastator I can drop in a full unit of Iron Fang + UA which with Iron Flesh gives them def 16 arm 14/18. Thats one def less for 3/7 arm more compared to the Kayazy. After Tinkering with the list I have come up with this.

Army Points: 23
Name
Cost
Butcher of Khardov
-6
Marauder
7
Juggernaut
7
Iron Fang Pikemen (6/10)
8
Iron Fang Officer and Standard Bearer (undefined
2
Kayazy Assassins (6/10)
5


This leaves 2 pts to upgrade the Marauder to a Destroyer for ranged attacks or 2 pts to drop in the Underboss UA for the Kayazay or a Khador solo.

If I take the Destroyer Im hoping he will bunch up his models to get them under the fox hole template. Which will make it easier to tie up with the Uber charge of the Kayazy. That 12 + 6 move and shield wall is just what I need to limit the amount of rounds I get shot up.

I appreciate the help and if there is anymore advice im happy to hear it. thanks again and in advance.

[Hangedman]

I would drop the Marauder and keep the Devi. Also if your going to run the kayazy get the underboss in there. Maybe take a unit of Greylords they can put clouds down on your jacks and the Butcher to help keep him alive. Also Koldun lord may not be a bad Idea. He can help the butcher out by giving a jack a focus point to run. Butcher can drop an avalach on the gunmages. Also Wardog is great for the Butcher.

Army Points: 24

Butcher of Khardov -6
War Dog 1
Juggernaut 7
Devastator 9
Greylord Ternion (3) 4
Kayazy Assassins (6) 5
Kayazy Assassins Underboss 2
Koldun Lord 2

Or

Army Points: 25

Butcher of Khardov -6
War Dog 1
Juggernaut 7
Devastator 9
Greylord Ternion (3) 4
Kayazy Assassins (10) 8
Kayazy Assassins Underboss 2

Or

Army Points: 25

Butcher of Khardov -6
War Dog 1
Juggernaut 7
Marauder 7
Kayazy Assassins (10) 8
Kayazy Assassins Underboss 2
Greylord Ternion (3) 4
Koldun Lord 2

[mongre36]

Of the suggestions my feeling is that the IFP+UA sacrifice is the most effective. Butcher 2 has no speed benefits he can give his army, and the IFP+UA should allow you to close the distance during that critical turn when otherwise the Siege player would have free reign to pummel your army with no fear of reprisal.

The technique plays to the strengths of the IFP and Iron Flesh while reducing the threat range weakness your list has. Once in melee the bulk of the opposing force will lose effectiveness.