It's been a while...

[Mr. Black]

It's been a while, maybe years, come to think of it, since I've been here...

Some, the older crowd, may remember me as Nataku, I wrote the Complete Bastard's Guide to Warmachine...

I return, upon seeing MkII's release, and I find the forum here going on and on about Cryx getting the shaft in the new edition.

Thread, after thread, after thread.



I do not like seeing this.

They speak of uniformity, of our old tactics and tricks gone, of our "specialness" being taken away... I have looked into the book myself, and I am forced to ask, even though I am sure it has been asked before...


What are people complaining about?

[Charbok]

Beats me. The FT Cryx was poo, but the finished product is just buckets of nasty. Then again, I'm one of those idiots that actually sees potential in the Leviathan, so grain of salt and what not. :p

[blakeh1]

What are people complaining about?

I would actually reword it as What are a few disgruntled players complaining about?

Personally the only thing I am genuinly unsatisifed with in Cryx in MKII is the Drudges

We lost some niche things, but overall most things came out as good or better than the MK 1 versions with very few exceptions. Things like the Cankerworm, Rengrave and Helldivers may not be quite as good as the MK1 counter parts, but that is mostly due to having to lose some overpowered abilities in favor of a much lowered points cost, or because of brokeness with other model/rule changes.

I think Cryx is much more balanced now in that I can take units besides Bane Knights or Bile Thralls without feelling like I am gimped

[Silopolis]

Hey man. I remember you. :)

Honestly, I think Cryx made out okay. The issue for me, at least, was that certain Cryx playstyles suffered in the transition: Namely, arc-node-swarm assassination, and post-Legends-style mindscrew lists.

Personally, a lot of the changes felt like judgements that our tricks were broken and unfair. Bane Knights got nerfed, making me feel a little chided for enjoying them in Mk.I. eGoreshade got digested and vomited back (though I don't know what that was punishment for). The Coven stopped being a long-range assassin force and became a more jack-friendly group. Deneghra mind-screws got more or less erased (though I can see it again with the Siren). Our cav finally became light cav just as light cav was getting nerfed. Arc nodes became much more expensive, relatively speaking, than they were. We simply can't run Deneghra and 5 arc nodes anymore, not if we want to be as effective for the points.

Then, on the other hand, a lot of our lame, never-taken models became awesome. The breakout stars seemed to be the Bane Thralls, Stalkers, and Seethers. The Necrosurgeon became Most Improved of All Time and was argued to be overpowered. Not only were our old tricks less viable, but we had to learn new ones. The game was moving in the direction of the models a lot of us never bought. We had to dust off our shelves. :)

And THEN, at the same time, other lower-tier models didn't improve, and some got worse. The Revenant Pirates and Drudges are an example. Especially with the Necrosurgeon being what she is, there's almost less argument for taking the Revenants when you could take the Mechs. And the Drudges got better, but they have the same weaknesses they always had. And the less said about Rengrave, in my opinion, the better. ;)

Things might be looking up, though. While the Ripjaw might be the least exciting announcement since New Coke, the Corruptor is generating some discussion, and the Siren looks really nice. The problem is, we have to wait until May for our book. Aside from Mercs, we're last of the factions in the queue.

So, watching some of our more effective playstyles disappear, having to learn new styles of play (ones that some might call less flavorful or less "tryxy"), and seeing that many of our models remain more or less unfieldable, while waiting until the rest of the factions get their kewl new toys, adds up to a feeling of ennui with the faction, in my opinion.

Honestly, I started looking into the Retribution, because the way Cryx turned out, while good, doesn't fill me with confidence that we'll be treated super well in the future. Ever since Legends (and the Warcaster Attachment situation), I've felt like Cryx is different because we're different, but we're not always given adequate compensation for the things we lose because we're evil.

But that's all just me. :)

[Ghyrrshyld]

Hey man. I remember you. :)

Honestly, I think Cryx made out okay. The issue for me, at least, was that certain Cryx playstyles suffered in the transition: Namely, arc-node-swarm assassination, and post-Legends-style mindscrew lists.

Personally, a lot of the changes felt like judgements that our tricks were broken and unfair. Bane Knights got nerfed, making me feel a little chided for enjoying them in Mk.I. eGoreshade got digested and vomited back (though I don't know what that was punishment for). The Coven stopped being a long-range assassin force and became a more jack-friendly group. Deneghra mind-screws got more or less erased (though I can see it again with the Siren). Our cav finally became light cav just as light cav was getting nerfed. Arc nodes became much more expensive, relatively speaking, than they were. We simply can't run Deneghra and 5 arc nodes anymore, not if we want to be as effective for the points.

Then, on the other hand, a lot of our lame, never-taken models became awesome. The breakout stars seemed to be the Bane Thralls, Stalkers, and Seethers. The Necrosurgeon became Most Improved of All Time and was argued to be overpowered. Not only were our old tricks less viable, but we had to learn new ones. The game was moving in the direction of the models a lot of us never bought. We had to dust off our shelves. :)

And THEN, at the same time, other lower-tier models didn't improve, and some got worse. The Revenant Pirates and Drudges are an example. Especially with the Necrosurgeon being what she is, there's almost less argument for taking the Revenants when you could take the Mechs. And the Drudges got better, but they have the same weaknesses they always had. And the less said about Rengrave, in my opinion, the better. ;)

Things might be looking up, though. While the Ripjaw might be the least exciting announcement since New Coke, the Corruptor is generating some discussion, and the Siren looks really nice. The problem is, we have to wait until May for our book. Aside from Mercs, we're last of the factions in the queue.

So, watching some of our more effective playstyles disappear, having to learn new styles of play (ones that some might call less flavorful or less "tryxy"), and seeing that many of our models remain more or less unfieldable, while waiting until the rest of the factions get their kewl new toys, adds up to a feeling of ennui with the faction, in my opinion.

Honestly, I started looking into the Retribution, because the way Cryx turned out, while good, doesn't fill me with confidence that we'll be treated super well in the future. Ever since Legends (and the Warcaster Attachment situation), I've felt like Cryx is different because we're different, but we're not always given adequate compensation for the things we lose because we're evil.

But that's all just me. :)

This... This is Truth.

Exactly how I feel, right down to the Retribution.

[Pendargon]

@ Silopolois

Preach on, brother!

Seriously, it is not a power thing. It's the flavor thing. In a world where jacks run hot, ours are a lag behind (not counting almighty Deathjack) because of our innate lack of jack buffs, other factions jack buffs, and our jack fragility.
On the other hand , we have FANTASTIC infantry (both banes, satyxis + witch, mechanithralls+surgeo, even biles), and horrible ( Rev crew, drudges). Since our spellslinging got turned down, i find myself playing cryx in the same way the old Khador used to play: A swarm of excelent infantry, most with weaponmasters/other cool ability , a node or two for support, a deathjack. With every f'ing caster (par mortnebra).
It works.
But, ironically, it seems to me that at the topmost, competitive level, we have less options than in mk1.

[blakeh1]

In a world where jacks run hot, ours are a lag behind (not counting almighty Deathjack) because of our innate lack of jack buffs, other factions jack buffs, and our jack fragility

Seriously? I thought most other factions were complaining how overpowered Cryx jacks were for their points cost. Wasn't there endless pages in threads about how broke the Seether was, or how ridiculous it was that the Slayer has MAT 7 and is only 6 points, or how Stalker Spam was going to ruin the game?

What about spells like Pursuit, Perdition, Terminal Velocity, Death Race, Curse of Shadows, Veil of Mists etc.. as ways to deliver jacks where they are needed?

Or how about a jack like the Harrower that has the Soul Taker ability, and Thresher, and Reach, and Ghost Shot?

[Gargathor]

I would actually reword it as What are a few disgruntled players complaining about?
This. A good example is the 'Gunmachine' thread. Aside from a few absolutely ridiculous comments ("Cryx has no outstanding units." !), people on both sides have stated thier case with civility and common sense. There will always be exceptions of course. Welcome back!

[Ghyrrshyld]

Seriously? I thought most other factions were complaining how overpowered Cryx jacks were for their points cost. Wasn't there endless pages in threads about how broke the Seether was, or how ridiculous it was that the Slayer has MAT 7 and is only 6 points, or how Stalker Spam was going to ruin the game.when you look at it, they complained about the Seether, Stalker, and Nightmare in the field test, and they all got nerfed, so the crying stopped afterwards.

Apparently, Cryx should have spent the field test whining about the Avatar or B13 or something, maybe it wouldn't have gone poorly.

[blakeh1]

when you look at it, they complained about the Seether, Stalker, and Nightmare in the field test, and they all got nerfed, so the crying stopped afterwards.

Apparently, Cryx should have spent the field test whining about the Avatar or B13 or something, maybe it wouldn't have gone poorly.


From the point where the crying from other factions got the loudest, the Seether and Stalker just went up a point if I recall, Nightmare was the only model that got nerfed by losing the Prey movement, but it is still a solid jack

[Jyggdrasil]

They are all still solid jacks, and well worth the points we pay to field them.

Welcome back Mr Black. Always good to see an articulate voice in these parts.

[Ghyrrshyld]

From the point where the crying from other factions got the loudest, the Seether and Stalker just went up a point if I recall, Nightmare was the only model that got nerfed by losing the Prey movement, but it is still a solid jack
I don't remember when the drop down to Defense 13 happened to the Seether, but it may not have been a direct result of their tears.

[Mindchaser]

I believe the biggest problem is that some people are still looking at other factions and complain that their grass is waaaaay greener than ours (and should've been nerfed to a light lime-green). We will never have Menite Synergy Khadorian sturdiness or Cygnaran ranged options.
After all Cryx is still a very flexible force that can pull some pretty nasty tricks. Maybe our nastiest and most evil abilities got toned down. Maybe the general playstyle changed but I think its just a thing we have to adapt to.
People complain about increased ranged combat but we still have lots of good ways of delivering our Warjacks and troops.

[Pendargon]

From the point where the crying from other factions got the loudest, the Seether and Stalker just went up a point if I recall, Nightmare was the only model that got nerfed by losing the Prey movement, but it is still a solid jack

Well, just went up a point is a lot. At 3 pts, stalkers was excellent, but at 4, i rarely take them. Seether got a kick in the teeth, with def dropping to 13 and points up to 9, and nightmare prey movement vanished. In field test they were awesome. Now, not so much. And , in my experience, poor slayer cannot even begin to compare with Juggernaut and Ironclad, and with the all the menoth buffs to jacks, he has a downhill battle there. Also, they have (mostly) a paper armor of 17, and i have seen behemoth render useless my heavies in a single round of shooting.
With every jack getting +1+1 in mat/rat our def of 13 became a joke, since everybody is now hitting us on average/below average dice.
Sure, nothing is wrong with the harrower, it is an excellent jack, but, considering that I would rather buy DJ for 2 points more, an arcnode or two ( because we need it, even though they are very expensive), and it suddenly becomes too expensive. And I would rather take nightmare instead of it, as i found that he is the only ours jack sans DJ who can single handedly deal with the enemy heavies (with prey), can mitigate terrain, and has respectable charge range thanx to reach.
So, basically, unless playing morty, it's DJ/Nightmare and some nodes, sometimes canker. Because, you really want to have the points for the awesomeness which are MCThralls + necrotech, or banes+tartarsauce, and Darragh...

[Pendargon]

Maybe the general playstyle changed but I think its just a thing we have to adapt to.


Sorry for the double post, but i had to comment :
This is true.
We are not weak, in fact, we are very strong and competitive.
But, to me, by playstyle, we became a lot non-cryxian like, with a very little nodes, usually one heavy (dj/nightmare in my case mostly), and a lot of elite weaponmaster/satyxis (i-pling-your-caster-till-he-dies), or simply high-power hitting troops (MCThralls).
My games with ELich, EGore, pGore, Eskarre, pSkarre and others look exactly the same.
Army composition looks (almost) the same... It's like Khador Mk1, both by feel and army composition, only with a little spell slinging. I don't like that at all. If i did, i would play Khador. I am not enjoying winning in such manner, shoving my banes and regenerating MCthralls down my opponents throat until his army crumbles.
Only one who, for now, retains that cryxian assassination feel and army composition (with 3-4 nodes) is pDenny ( i have yet to try EDenny, model is so fugly). But one bird does not make a spring...

[hauntingexperience]

After the warwitch siren I dont have much to complain about.

[Mr. Black]

Hmm.... This requires another topic...

I must express my thoughts after spending a morning browsing the forum...

[Gorg]

My games with ELich, EGore, pGore, Eskarre, pSkarre and others look exactly the same.

dunno, but my lists look all different and i play every caster we have. outside ouf bane thralls (which are in all of my lists besides easphys, eskarres and morties) +tart my lists differ quite much. i see them as my base, just as every cygnar army has b13 and atgm almost everytime or menoth some random jacks and a crapload of choir, vassal, covenant and so on.
for example i like helldivers with pskarre, but with anyone else they are quite useless.
i like taking bile thralls with casters that can give them stealth because without it i cant justify fielding them. my enemies arent stupid enough to let me get them in range to do their thing without it.
i dont like slayers, they are dirt cheap sure, but to do just about anything they require focus which my casters dont have most of the time but with morty i often play 3 of them at the same time because with her they become super focus efficient and a single one of them on an enemy caster is usually a win. with the rest of my casters i dont care about them.

i could go on, but i hope you get the idea. i dont just build armies which are mediocre with a random caster in it. that might be enough to win against a mediocre enemy. i look at the caster and look at what he needs, what benefits the most from his abilities/spells/feat, what i need to round up the list for all kind of scenarios, what i need to negotiate terrain and pita models the enemy might bring to the battle.

[Gargathor]

My games with ELich, EGore, pGore, Eskarre, pSkarre and others look exactly the same.
Army composition looks (almost) the same...
With all due respect sir, that is down to YOU, and your choices.

YOU are the one choosing to play similar lists. We have a choice of TEN different infantry units, NOT INCLUDING MERCS.

Our 6 point heavy is NOT the same as our 8 point heavy, which is NOT the same as either our 9 or 10 point heavy, and not a damn thing on the surface of Immoren is the same as the Deathjack.

I can't even begin to comprehend your logic as applied to warcasters. pSkarre is the same as pGoreshade? REALLY? Let's see, Goreshade has a spell that makes his battlegroup STEALTHY. Skarre does not. Seems like a good opportunity to make two different lists with just that ONE spell.

[69Lazarus]

Posted by:Charbok


Then again, I'm one of those idiots that actually sees potential in the Leviathan, so grain of salt and what not. :p

lol, you might get rocks thrown at you talking like that.


I was cruising through all of my new faction decks today and I noticed that I get like 4 Defenders and 5 Destroyers.....but only 2 Leviathans. Is this Privateer's way of limiting this model? Is it simply too dangerous to contemplate fielding in numbers? lol, maybe they saw all of the hate directed at it and saved printing costs of those extra cards. (lol) :D




I'm hoping with the new SR2010 format being released that people will get some games in. Less theorymachine and more table time.

[Tuckers]

Is it simply too dangerous to contemplate fielding in numbers?

I'm hoping with the new SR2010 format being released that people will get some games in. Less theorymachine and more table time.
Edited to what I am commenting on.

You know it is too dangerous. Actually, I have a hard time envisioning a list that would use more than 2.

More play time is always a good thing. We need to be out in the fields, cutting our teeth, making them fear the name of Cryx.

[Writer@Large]

I for one got *excited* by Cryx again in MKII. I'd given up on them in MKI because, IMO, the army didn't match the look/the fluff/what I thought they'd become when original PRIME was out.

I'm quite happy with my regenerating zombie horde army, with Bane Thralls that rock (always loved the models) and chicks with whips. The one time I played the tourney at GenCon, it was with a Goreshade list that represented the Cryx army I wanted to play ... and I got my *** haded to me because Cryx didnt play that way. Now, it does.

Undead legions FTW!

--W@L

[69Lazarus]

Actually, I have a hard time envisioning a list that would use more than 2.

me2. I was just kidding w/ that. Thought it was interesting though considering other "shooting" jacks came in larger numbers in the faction decks.

[Silopolis]

The one time I played the tourney at GenCon, it was with a Goreshade list that represented the Cryx army I wanted to play ... and I got my *** haded to me because Cryx didnt play that way. Now, it does.

Care to expand on that? I'm curious what you wanted to play before, and how Mk.II Cryx makes that possible.

[Sabin]

It's been a while, maybe years, come to think of it, since I've been here...

Some, the older crowd, may remember me as Nataku, I wrote the Complete Bastard's Guide to Warmachine...

I return, upon seeing MkII's release, and I find the forum here going on and on about Cryx getting the shaft in the new edition.

Thread, after thread, after thread.



I do not like seeing this.

They speak of uniformity, of our old tactics and tricks gone, of our "specialness" being taken away... I have looked into the book myself, and I am forced to ask, even though I am sure it has been asked before...


What are people complaining about?


Most of the people complaining don't believe that darragh wrathe, soul hunters + soulgate deathjack to face was over-powered. You find the same crowd on the Khador forums who think that Vlad is terrible now because Blood of kings costs more or eVlads feat is toned down. It is the people that stick up for the models that are clearly broken just because they use them that think we got hard done by.

[Charbok]

To be honest, these forums are the best argument I've ever had for playing merc. The opinions and ideas I find being touted as conventional wisdom baffle and disconcert me, and I've had plenty of success in Mark II games.

It's not all empty whining, we were seriously bad off after the Field Test, but the "Very Nearly Final Rules" PDF gave us (at least to my reckoning) a balanced and interesting faction with many different ways to play. I was alarmed at the overcosted arc nodes, but I am willing to give it a chance.

I've never had much to say in these forums, but the insanity gripping some of the more vociferous posters hereabouts has made me shut up almost completely. I'd rather talk to people that actually are willing to work with the faction and try new things than listen to Infantrymachine 2.0 shoved in my face.

I got turned off of WHFB a few years back due to a couple reasons, but a big contributor were the various online communities that worked as a negative feedback loop driving into my head about how screwed up WHFB was, how terrible certain armies were, and how boorish and awful american players were. Backing away from these forums in general but most especially the cryx forums was the best choice I could make to maximize my continued enjoyment of the game.

To an extent, the faction communities are an echo chamber, where ideas get very distorted and inbred rapidly. This isn't terribly fun to participate in with more than a cursory effort, at least for me. I could always do the "raging Iconoclast" thing, but that's way more effort than I have vitamin-giving-a-damn for.

Better to paint, or god forbid get a game in, than try and contribute to these forums any more.;);)

[Jyggdrasil]

It has been getting better.

[Charbok]

Every time I think it's gotten better, I read some idiocy that makes my eyes bleed, followed by several people telling the poster how wise they are. :p

[SaintScythus]

I remember you Mr. Black and I for one am extremely excited about the new Cryx. We may have the best caster in the game in the form of E-Skarre. She makes out jacks run well while still retaining good troop support in the form of Black Spot. The Leviathan is a much better Jack than it used to be and the only gripe I have at all is with Pistol Wraiths point cost in comparison to Warwitch Siren and other solos in the same class.

So now I call upon each and every one of you that read this post to go actually play as many games as you can against as many opponents as possible before you theory machine any more. I honestly don't believe that most of the people who post on this forum have played more than 3 MK II games with the new Cryx. So just go play and stop *****ing about everything.

[Sabin]

Every time I think it's gotten better, I read some idiocy that makes my eyes bleed, followed by several people telling the poster how wise they are. :p

People believe what they want to, not what is necissarily true.

[Silopolis]

Every time I think it's gotten better, I read some idiocy that makes my eyes bleed, followed by several people telling the poster how wise they are. :p

Ok, I have to ask. Are you talking about my post earlier in this thread, or something else?

Because I'll stop bothering to politely state my case if it's just going to be branded as eye-bleeding idiocy.

[Kaptain Von]

Ok, I have to ask. Are you talking about my post earlier in this thread, or something else?

Because I'll stop bothering to politely state my case if it's just going to be branded as eye-bleeding idiocy.

Quite. I know we're not supposed to name names when we're talking about trends like that, but I've had enough of those "quite so, Kaptain" posts to feel like a go is possibly being had at me.

Am I paranoid, or is someone actually out to get me?

[69Lazarus]

Posted by:Silopolis



Ok, I have to ask. Are you talking about my post earlier in this thread, or something else?
Because I'll stop bothering to politely state my case if it's just going to be branded as eye-bleeding idiocy.


I don't think he's talking about you.



Personally, a lot of the changes felt like judgements that our tricks were broken and unfair. Bane Knights got nerfed, making me feel a little chided for enjoying them in Mk.I. eGoreshade got digested and vomited back (though I don't know what that was punishment for). The Coven stopped being a long-range assassin force and became a more jack-friendly group. Deneghra mind-screws got more or less erased (though I can see it again with the Siren). Our cav finally became light cav just as light cav was getting nerfed. Arc nodes became much more expensive, relatively speaking, than they were. We simply can't run Deneghra and 5 arc nodes anymore, not if we want to be as effective for the points.



Well, I think in general that BaneKnights were broken and if not "unfair" then certainly unfun to play against (too many interactions to keep track of). I'm with you on E-Shade though.
I think the Coven can still kill casters at range. I've begun to combine them with heavy range support as well as chicks & whips. A little feedback type damage makes SA's a far more dangerous proposistion for the enemy caster to face. Boosted POW 12 still kill casters. The Coven now has way more options outside of that in MK II.
Yeah, Mind screw is gone (one of my favorites). We still have a bit of theme there with influence. Used the Corruptor to kill off a damaged Demolition Korps trooper and the used that meat node to kill off two more of the Troopers. I thought that was pretty cool Sure, situational and not game breaking, but still there. I don't think armies need to run 5 nodes with denny - hell, I rarely run 3 of them since I've adjusted my playstyle. I'm hoping the presence of the new Corruptor may change that "disposable node" mode that we've been in for years. (hmmm, Corruptor might be fun with the Coven too)

[Jyggdrasil]

Every time I think it's gotten better, I read some idiocy that makes my eyes bleed, followed by several people telling the poster how wise they are. :p

So tell them, politely, that they are an idiot and explain why.

I decided a little while back to be more proactive about confronting the unsupported DOOM herein. I know that these stoushes can be a bit tedious and unpleasant for the wider audience, but I also believe they have - overall - been beneficial to the forums. Some DOOM has been shown as simple unfounded personal opinion. Other DOOM was pushed into becoming articulated argument that could be usefully discussed.

I'll finish up with two quotes...

"Be the change you want to see"

-and-

"All that is required for evil to triumph, is that good men do nothing".

[69Lazarus]

Other DOOM was pushed into becoming articulated argument that could be usefully discussed.


I like brainstorming and learning new ideas. There are some though that make it very hard to do....

[Charbok]

Silopsis and Kaptain Von, you guys are fine. I seriously can't remember anything off the top of my head, and even if I did, I wouldn't call them out on it. The things you've contributed in this thread are reasoned and well thought out, two steps that shouldn't lead to eye-bleeding if you're doing it right. :D

Jygg, as much as I'd love to start a one-man crusade to make this forum better, I've got more on my plate than I can handle. I'd need to start living here and gaming a lot more to be able to make informed, cogent arguments. I've also had enough warnings that I'd probably not last too long doing it, and then I'd never be able to come back.

I like seeing new models, rules and what not, and wouldn't want to lose that option for the sake of correcting noisy fools. ;)

[Writer@Large]

Care to expand on that? I'm curious what you wanted to play before, and how Mk.II Cryx makes that possible.
It was the year Apotheosis came out. I honestly don't remember every detail of the list anymore, but the core of the army was Goreshade, two full units of McThralls, and a Necrosurgeon (which I was *convinced* I could make work, really really, all it needed was the right army, seriously). I wanted to build a resurrecting undead horde where cut down models were replaced by new troops, where the dead came back to life. Even Goreshade's feat played into this, since it summoned a permanent unit of BTs to the table.

Suffice to say, I went 0-4 in the tournament. I left that event so frustrated that, instead of buying the Deathjack that day for my Cryx army, I invested in Capt. Darius and made the switch to Cygnar.

--W@L

[Jyggdrasil]

Jygg, as much as I'd love to start a one-man crusade to make this forum better, I've got more on my plate than I can handle.

"Many hands make light work" ;)

[2LiveIs2Die]

It's been a while, maybe years, come to think of it, since I've been here...

Some, the older crowd, may remember me as Nataku, I wrote the Complete Bastard's Guide to Warmachine...

I return, upon seeing MkII's release, and I find the forum here going on and on about Cryx getting the shaft in the new edition.

Thread, after thread, after thread.



I do not like seeing this.

They speak of uniformity, of our old tactics and tricks gone, of our "specialness" being taken away... I have looked into the book myself, and I am forced to ask, even though I am sure it has been asked before...


What are people complaining about?
I remember you.
c:


And people complain the models are no longer over powered.
We have amazing abilities and i still win about 7:2.
Models being balanced is not to some peoples liking.
I.e. bane knights in hardcore.

[Spleen Hammer]

I've found that it doesn't matter what forum you're in, there are those who are capable of stringing words together in such a manner that makes a lot of other readers to say, "Hey that sounds good, must be true!"

Cryx is good to go. They were in MkI and they are in MkII. They play a little differently, but both versions are great fun and are very killy. I prefer to play "Smash-Mouth" games, so I deploy a decided lack of subtlety and trickery. I move in with Banes and 'Jacks, soften things up, and then Terminus moves in to kill everything else. Works well and it's a blast.

To those who declare Dooom! at everything: Reach down and grab a hold! If you don't like how this game plays, find another one. Leave the forums for those of us who revel in the tactics, list builds and speculation.

There is no such thing as a perfect faction and no such thing as a perfect game. There can't be because those of us who play it are not clones (thankfully!) and have differing opinions. If those opinions are negative, then there's a right way and a wrong way to voice those opinions. Dooom! is not one of them...

[Tuckers]

"Many hands make light work" ;)
Well of course. Why do you think there are so many Liches?

And I forgot, welcome back Mr. Black.