Let's talk about the Drakhun...

[tedwin183]

So, when i first started playing WM about 7 months ago, I bought the Drakhun because I heard how awesome he was (that was back at the tail end of mki) and because I loved the model. Since then, I have been repeatedly disappointed with him. I am sure it's the way I have been playing him.

I typically flank him way out, away from the rest of my army. I use him to go after squishy things on the perimeter. What happens next, is either my opponent shifts his forces in such a way that the Drakhun gets shot to hell, or, charges, kills 1 thing and then dies to a concerted effort the next turn. I mean, this guy is 5pts! That's Great Bear pts! And what makes matters worse, he's a large base. I've tried hiding him behind my 'jacks, with intent to use him as a counter charge monster. He either gets shot from a hill or is utterly useless, not being able to leg it out when a prime target comes available.

So I ask you, how do you guys use the Drakhun with good results?

[i_like_tool]

I use Fenris instead?

I know that isn't helpful in the least bit but I too have tried to use him with little to no luck.
Counter Charge + No Knock Down seems great but I am either doing something terribly wrong, possible, or he needed something else from the Field Test

[Avecrien]

He's not nearly as good as he was in Mk1. He can still be useful with good luck on impact attacks, abusing ride by attacks, and the opponent giving you a counter charge.
I'd put Fury on him under Butcher to help out in certain scenarios. eVlad still needs him on feat turn too. Outside of the above, I think he's our greatest victim of the Mk2 changes.

[i_like_tool]

eVlad still needs him on feat turn too..

I'd still take a SPD 11 Fenris + Great Bears or Yuri + Manhunters over the Drakhun sadly

[whats82]

Don't bother hiding him.
What he is, is an ARM19 with 10 wounds. That requires fairly dedicated range power to take down, even a concentrated squad of CRA wouldn't unhorse him without some really good rolls.

That means he should be roughly in the same rank as your other troops, maybe slightly forward if you want to paint a bulls eye on his large base, but shouldn't be way out there where the rest of your army is not in support range, allowing your opponent to dedicate a sizable amount of resource to remove him.

Make your opponent choose whether to shoot him or your army, and one side will make it through. He could also somewhat protect your front rank with countercharge if you position him a bit behind your front lines.

Also, the extra damage in excess of his mounted form is lost, so in effect his real hp is closer to 20 (compare to 18 on his card) or more, that is equivalent to a light jack. A light jack with mat8 and pow14 wm reach weapon, even in dismounted form he's not that bad.

[tedwin183]

But losing flying steel just hurts so...so...SO bad.

[Avecrien]

I'd still take a SPD 11 Fenris + Great Bears or Yuri + Manhunters over the Drakhun sadly

Neither Fenris or the bears can benefit from his feat. Non-character warriors only. This is one of the drakhun's few chances to shine. You'll still be rocking those guys in a list with eVlad anyway though.

[i_like_tool]

Neither Fenris or the bears can benefit from his feat. Non-character warriors only. This is one of the drakhun's few chances to shine. You'll still be rocking those guys in a list with eVlad anyway though.

Wow I'm retarded. Completely missed that...good thing I don't get eVlad until Tuesday......

Hmmmm might be bringing the Drakhun back out

[Malkav13]

With Reach, and a speed of 7, he should be able to cross enough terrain to close with the enemies ranged models fairly soon. If he is getting shot at to frequently, try putting Iron flesh on him. The increase to def 14 does quite a bit to help keep him alive.

[Avecrien]

If you do use him, there are a lot of little things to keep in mind about cavalry rules and his specific rules. I was trying to force myself to use him so I wasn't just instinctively whining about his nerf.
Tall in the saddle is another of the goodies I didn't mention earlier. Helps for using him while keeping him back or using him as a bodyguard.

[studderingdave]

i use him without dismount with ebutcher to be one of my main feat killers. its either him, fenris or one of my 2 jacks that gets three rage tokens, moves up to casters and goes nuts. they all have reach so its extra icing. anywhere else the drakhun takes a back seat to fenris.

[thrasymacus]

I've endured the nerf and he's still ok. I'm getting good mileage out of the +1 bump to P+S. Having to kill him twice is a good ability and speed 7 with reach is still pretty zippy. Mat 8 POW 14 are great stats for inflicting impact hits which is where I get most of my kills, and the knockdown is nice when it happens as well.

[phantem2]

Well I have a few uses for him but his role has definitly changed to a more defensive style.

What I have used him for with some success:

-Guard to run in front of Fenris. Between his armor and counter-charge hes a great model to deliver Fenris with and usualy does a little damage before he gets taken out.

-Next to my Manowar ST line. Since the Manowar suffer from speed 4 his countercharge and speed make it harder to line up charges on the shield wall line in addition to being another target.

-Caster bodyguard.

Hes certainly changed and I often only run him without the dismount for 4 points but I think hes got roles, hes just no longer the powerhouse he was that devastated enemy jacks with a single charge. He may or may not be usefull for you but that's where I found success with him, hope it helps.

[TheBigRedMachine]

His rules have changed and his role has been side lined a bit. It's going to take a few months to find his new idenity.

The thing that hurts him the most is the lost of flying steel. Not having more attacks makes it hard for him to take out most things. Though ride-by-attacks could be something to help with clumped infantry.

I'll have to try that with a shield walled TFG.

[OldOneEye]

He still tarpits well. Reach, high ARM, big base, and plenty of damage makes him hard to dislodge once he's stuck in against a ranged unit. Whether or not you want to pay 4-5 points for a tarpit is up to you, but it's a role he can fill.

[General Nemo]

His focus was shifted, it seems, to that of a model that hits hard and holds down the enemy. Also, keep in mind his ride by attack is very powerful, and great for getting out of close combat.

Have him hold down a warjack or unit for a turn. One turn can mean all the world to Khador, allowing their heavy pieces to get the charge the turn after.

[NateMg]

Given my poor flying steel rolls in Mk1. I don't feel that he lost all that much.

The drakhun still excels as a charge deterrant as mentioned before. I often deploy him behind where my Widowmakers will be to give them some quick support.
Pow 14+4d on the charge will put a hurt on anything it hits. With countercharge and 7" moves you can pretty well guarantee you get that charge. His reach does a good job blocking charge lanes after that because noone really wants to provoke that free-strike.

[excal88]

well, i imagine with Irusk and battle lust he becomes quite the heavy hitter; i was planning on running a drakhun with irusk, but decided for great bears since they're a bit more versatile. i want to add him though, so maybe later. 4d6 with counter charge means a mean body guard for irusk.

[OldOneEye]

I may try the Drakhun with Sorscha2 some time, just to squeeze a little more damage potential out of her feat. With Boundless Charge, he has a 14" threat range, hits at 10+2d6, and is at 14+4d6 for damage. That'll ruin most people's days. He worked out pretty well with her in MKI, and I don't have to suffer the disappointment of poor Flying Steel rolls any more.

[The 13th Doomreaver]

I think that you really need to get him engaged as quickly as possible, and he needs to stay engaged. Also, getting the charge off helps him.

His favorite things to tarpit are things like sword knights, TFG, Zealots, and pretty much anything with a low P+S weapons.

Other than that, I might rather take a manhunter or two, or even Yuri with a manhunter... they have more mobility, plus stealth.

[NateMg]

The other nice thing about the Drakhun is he forces your opponent to engage him first. If he the Drakhun isn't engaged, you countercharge. It can really change how a battle unfolds.

[Musketeer]

Sometimes it is better to run him to engage a unit than look to get the charge. This is especially true with dismount. Reach and tall in the saddle means he can tie up a model when starting 16" away.

[Deathraven]

I love the Drakhun and I really don't see why he gets so much hate.
I typically run him between a flank and the center of my force, so that he can help out in the main melee or threaten pesky flankers. Counter charge is one of his biggest draws for me, he can really symie my opponents advance when they have to deal with him first to get close.

[DemonCalibre]

From my experiences, Drakhun's primary purpose is to shut down shooting. He quick enough that he can run into hand to hand and lock down a shooting unit, Hard enough that the amount of energy it takes to dislodge him from your ranged unit is considerable, an nearly impossible for the ranged unit in question to do on it's own.

He isn't going to kill all those dudes, but he provides a fair amount of lock down.

Considering how MK2 made some big improvements to shooting, having a go to guy, who can easily lock down things like B13, Gun Mages, MHSF, has some real merit.

[TheBigRedMachine]

I love the Drakhun and I really don't see why he gets so much hate.

It's not hate you're seeing it's love and disappointment. We all love him from MK1 and just the cool model that he is, I should know I have 4 of them. The hate is from the nerf beating he took in the loss of multiple attacks. He lost his place to the new point structure there are others that do more for the same cost.

We all just need time to adjust our picture of him. I will still love the model and the potential that rests somewhere in his rules. I'll just have to put him into every list til he clicks.

[OrsusSmash]

We all just need time to adjust our picture of him.

In my experience, this is the biggest thing to bear in mind with the Drakun Mk.II.

In Mk.I, he could do pretty much any role you needed: smash up warjacks/warbeasts, clear out infantry, tie up infantry, guard your warcaster, harass/guard a flank, etc.

In Mk.II, the only rule he lost was Flying Steel, but that combined with the enhancement to warjack durability makes him a lot less desirable as a warjack wrecker, and his static 2 attacks makes him less than optimal for clearing out infantry.

Once I started to accept those things though, I realized the list of things he can do is still very good, especially for his points:


He can soften up or finish off a heavy target. P+S 14 charging weaponmaster hurts. Not enough to destroy outright, but he's a great lead-off man, or closer (especially at SPD 7.)
He can tie up ranged troopers. As has been stated, ranged troopers can be engaged from 16" away, and they're going to have a hard time dislodging him by themselves. Tall In The Saddle allows for maximum freestrike threat.
He can tie up moderately heavy, non-reach models if he has the dismount. This is, of course, conditional based on the board layout, but in general: if the Drakun charges something, its going to hurt it, and whatever it is isn't going to risk a freestrike if they can help it. With the dismount option, he'll tie up a non-reach heavy for at least one turn (which, as has also been noted, is usually more than enough.)
Counter-charge: he's one of the few WM models in the game to keep an ability like that, and its still very effective at warding off enemy models, or dictating activation order. Plus, a lucky impact hit critical on a counter charge can completely c-block an assault from a warjack or warbeast (always fun when it happens :cool: .)
Solo hunting: with the high accuracy and damage of his charge attack, there are very few solos he can't crush if he can get the drop on, and he's faster than most of what you'll be going after.
Ride-by attack shenanigans: Since he only has one attack, you can accurately plan on what to club, as opposed to leaning towards the possibility of d3 attacks. Its great to be able to ride in, bop a guy, horse kick someone else, and then ride back into a position to block LoS (more with a Blizzard,) and threaten with counter charge. Also, never underestimate the surprise value in a ride-by Shield Cannon shot. I've snuck more than a few models that way, and almost no-one remembers he has it.

Do I take him in every list like I did before? Certainly not, but I think that was the goal with his redesign, and I don't mind not feeling "gimped" because I didn't bring the Drakun.

Do I enjoy/value him in the lists I do take him in? Tremendously. He's an awesome "PITA" model, and he adds a wonderful element of durable, dangerous harassment to the Khador arsenal.

[i_like_tool]

You know why I personally think he gets a lot of flak?

His point cost. 4/5pts is a lot. I play around 25 to 35pt list mainly so everything has to be "worth there points" to make into my list.
I know that my:
IFP + UA are ALWAYS good
Assault Kommandos NORMALLY do welll
1-2 Jacks(More if Karchev)are ALWAYS needed

So building from there I have fill any "holes" in my list and I have to ask myself if the Drakun or maybe Widowmakers/WG/Mortar/FG/Something else will fill those points better for any perceived weakness

Sadly I can't often fit him in just like I haven't even tried the Greylords despite how much I want to. There are to many models I feel are "Core" to my army. I KNOW I need to get out of that frame of mind but it's hard when things perform well

[OrsusSmash]

Fully agreed sir. I usually play 50 pts., and at that total a lot of the models that are somewhat maligned can really be useful: Ternion, Drakun, MoW Kovnik + marshalled warjack, Doom Reavers, etc.

25 or 35 points is extremely tight. I've been working on lists for a 35 point tournament this weekend, and I've been stunned at how hard it is to build past any of the "sure things." Once I get past warjacks, mechaniks, and widowmakers, I'm halfway out of points, and I don't even have a unit yet!

The Drakun shines in 50 points because there's enough stuff to draw fire away from him, but he's important enough to draw fire from your line troopers usually. Plus, there's more stuff for him to support, and more to support him.

At 25/35 points, I can see why its hard to fit him in.

[i_like_tool]

The only caster I've found to fit the Drakhun in with at 35pts is something like this

eVlad
-Drago
-Juggernaut
Mechanics(Min)
Assault Kommando(Full)
IFP + UA(Min)
Man Hunter
Man Hunter
Drakhun

Hand of Fate goes on the Assault Kommando's, Transference stays up to help the Drakhun or Man Hunters
Most importantly is to threaten early with AK or IFP to keep Man Hunters + Drakhun up until feat turn.

edit: Credit due where it's due....thanks to Avecrien (http://privateerpressforums.com/member.php?u=46779) for pointing out that I can't use eVlad feat for non-characters, cause I can't read apparently, and making me use my Drakhun more

[Avecrien]

Aw, thanks! I'm still making myself use him whenever I can. Like others here, I've got multiple Drakhuns and I don't want the romance to end.
Resurgence in my area starts at 20pts, and with the no-character restriction at that level the Drakhun has some value. Under Butcher with Fury, his horse feets and his polearm really make up for the loss of Flying Steel.

Tall in the saddle letting him counter charge over the infantry in front of him is something I keep wanting to happen but hasn't yet. People don't want to take that hard a hit before being stuck in with a wad of shield wall. :(

[marskitten]

He's usually my solo hunter or rear/flank guard. Fast enough to get there, and generally he can one shot anything other than heavy jacks. Makes a good 4th Uhlan too.

[i_like_tool]

Want to give a little, real brief report, on the list I mentioned earlier and how the Drakhun actually was really my MvP

It was the list earlier vs
pKreoss
-Vanquisher
-Reckoner
-Revenger
TFG + UA(Full)
Choir(Min)
Deliverers(Min)
Covenant
Vassal

Not a fun list to fight against. Lamentation means you better get your Upkeeps going quickly. Purification + Lamentation(while Focus effective sometimes crucial)wipes all Upkeeps and than tosses up the double focus cost again.
If he pops his feat....your dead. Reckoner will take a 12" PoW 13 Boosted hit(possibly 2 with Vassal), Vanquisher will set you on fire, Deliveres will pound you and Kreoss can Arc spells into you as well just for good luck

Long and short of the battle was Mechanics dying quickly to AoE from the Delivers, TFG fought the AK(Go go ignoring fire), IFP tied up delivers and got Kreoss to pop his feat while I was just out of range

Feat + Drakhun = Kreoss went bu bye. Go go being able to boost attack and damage Rolls with eVlad cause that got me what I needed to win.

[SuperTheBoss]

I don't have an auto-include in any army, but the closest thing I have to one is the Drakhun. Yes, in Mk II. I find it to be a great tactical piece with a lot of uses. He can't scrap a character heavy in one round, but aside from that he's good for a lot. I like to think of him as a knight in chess. If you charge him in ahead of your army he's going to die quickly, but he can usually stay alive for quite a long time if you just do ride-by attacks and set up potential counter-charges for most of the game. This way he can be really effective at controlling your opponent's moves without getting killed. Not that killing him with ARM 19 is super easy anyway, but it can definitely be done. I've found that charging him on my turn is very situational. Usually it involves either softening up a tough target for one of my jacks, or finishing off an already damaged one. For softening up he works really well with widowmakers/marksman because they can finish off the last couple boxes of a system or two.

[Leprousy]

Thread necromancy?

[mostholycerebus]

At least someone is using Search. Still a relevant thread, I read it all.

[Boomfex]

One of my favorite uses is to run him straight into eEyris. I have even had opponents walk out of combat with him, move about 5" to line up a shot on my caster/jack, and have the Drakun counter charge her into oblivion.

I really like him and use him in about 50% of my lists.

[SuperTheBoss]

Yeah, I only just recently joined the forums, so I'm going though and searching all the models I play with and seeing if there's anything I haven't thought of/anything I have to add. Most times I find everything has been said but if there's something useful I can say I'll say it. Most times I don't really pay attention to how old the thread is. : )

[rivenwyrm]

Yeah, I only just recently joined the forums, so I'm going though and searching all the models I play with and seeing if there's anything I haven't thought of/anything I have to add. Most times I find everything has been said but if there's something useful I can say I'll say it. Most times I don't really pay attention to how old the thread is. : )

There's actually a forum policy against thread necromancy. Also, that could take you years.

[SuperTheBoss]

Is there really? I guess I'll try to not do that in the future, I just figured it would be better to add to an existing thread than start a new one about a topic that is already covered somewhere.

[thrasymacus]

The game was more fun with the flying Drakhun. Assuming your opponent knew about it in advance, it was always good for a chuckle. No one seemed to mind too much because it was so absurd. I hardly ever throw anything anymore :(

[Flak Maniak]

What exactly did the Drakhun have in Mk I that it doesn't have now? Also, can't you still throw it then have it charge something? It does still have Steady.

[Josh-o-Lantern]

What exactly did the Drakhun have in Mk I that it doesn't have now? Also, can't you still throw it then have it charge something? It does still have Steady.

I'm pretty sure you can't move on the same turn you're throw and it has nothing to due with knockdown.

[JBFlanz]

Guys, it has gone on long enough. Yes, in MK1 he ruled with flying steel and even flying steed, but we need to understand what he can do now. First and foremost, the drakhun dismount is THE BEST POINT in the game. For one point you get a boss, so how does the other four points fare? He is the best bully model in the game with no model posting that kind of speed, hitting power, durability all in one. He is an all-star in a majority of my lists and just gets the damage done.

[bitmatic]

I'm pretty sure you can't move on the same turn you're throw and it has nothing to due with knockdown.

You can move in a turn you are thrown, and it has everything to do with knockdown :-)

Normally, when you are thrown you are knocked down. Then when you activate you just have to either forfeit your movement or action. So, being thrown prevents neither movement nor action, but it does prevent charging.
If you are immune to knockdown then obviously you are not knocked down by a throw; However, there is a special rule (Prime p. 54) that states that if you are thrown and immune to knockdown you must still forfeit movement or action. This prevents models like the Drakhun from being thrown and charging.

[Josh-o-Lantern]

If you are immune to knockdown then obviously you are not knocked down by a throw; However, there is a special rule (Prime p. 54) that states that if you are thrown and immune to knockdown you must still forfeit movement or action. This prevents models like the Drakhun from being thrown and charging.

This is what I was getting at, I just worded it poorly and don't have the materials on me to reference XD

[x3tsniper]

The Drakhun is a heavy demolisher. I have had him kill a ravagore in a single activation by himself with bloodlust going. He is in every single list I make.

Even with bad rolls, he will still rip a system out of a jack. His counter charge is a great area control piece as well. There is also the fact that your enemy will usually have to dedicate something substantial to kill him. He doesn't return his points to me maybe one out of ten games.

EDIT: Just realized this is a super old thread. God damnit. I hope your house burns down you necromancer bastard.

[Malebolgia]

EDIT: Just realized this is a super old thread. God damnit. I hope your house burns down you necromancer bastard.

:eek: Dude, chill out! He explained his response. He's new here...not a nice way to welcome a komrad to our forums.

I love the Drakhun and use him a lot. The way he works best for me is to keep him in my second line or in the centre front of my line. He is an element your opponent cannot ignore, but he will also take some serious firepower to take out. I love him behind some tough models (like Shocktroopers). Your opponent has a hard time choosing a target to shoot at and if he engages the Shocktroopers, the Drakhun will countercharge. Combined with things like Fury he is a massive beatstick.

[Albinoprince]

I've been playing WM since it was released at Gencon in... 01? 02? whatever. So I learned the MK1 rules. when MK2 came out I promptly wiped all of MK1 from my brain and read the MK2 book page by page over and over. This gave me a huge advantage over all my friends who live by the words: "Well the old rules said this". Those are the people in my area that are disappointed by the Drakhun. The newer guys and those of us who removed pre-mk2 rules from our heads find him to be an amazing asset!

He's an unignorable threat. You can put him anywhere and your opponent will be FORCED to deal with him. He also will require way more than his points worth to deal with him. That means if you run him off to flank and your opponent sends a jack out there, that's one fewer jack your front line has to deal with. If it's a light jack, he stands a reasonable chance of destroying it on his own, if it's a heavy then it's almost definately worth more than he is.

He's a cavalry model. Aside from all his individual rules, he has the heavy cavalry rules. all Cav get a +2 to charge attack rolls so with his already high MAT he's a serious threat to just about anything, especially high DEF, low ARM models.

the Impact attacks alone make him really dangerous to infantry. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you can even impact PAST your initial target so long as you stop while in Melee range of it. That means you can get impact attacks on modles on the OTHER side of your charge target, too. Granted, you have to have enough movement to get there, but even if you don't you can stop b2b with him and get the impact attack on him AND your charge attack on him. I've gotten 9 attack rolls with a Drakhun in one turn before and every hit wound up being a kill due to his incredibly powerful steed.

He's a damage sponge. He takes a lot to kill and even when he goes down, your opponent still has to deal with his dismounted form. That means he's great for blocking charge lanes. I'll sacrifice a 5pt model in order to get a Beast 09 charge on whatever was strong enough to kill him next turn! Yes please!

If you just forget about using him in MK1 (It's over. gone. let it go!) and focus on how to best use him in MK2, then he's a very versatile 5 point model and well worth the points.

[bitmatic]

the Impact attacks alone make him really dangerous to infantry. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you can even impact PAST your initial target so long as you stop while in Melee range of it. That means you can get impact attacks on modles on the OTHER side of your charge target, too. Granted, you have to have enough movement to get there, but even if you don't you can stop b2b with him and get the impact attack on him AND your charge attack on him. I've gotten 9 attack rolls with a Drakhun in one turn before and every hit wound up being a kill due to his incredibly powerful steed.

You should probably brush up on the impact attack rules (or rather the 'Cavalry Charge' rules) :-)

You can stop and make impact attacks only once during a charge. You then make impact attacks against all models in the mounts 0.5" melee range. After that you continue to your charge target and make your one charge attack.
Even with absolutely ideal placement of the models youe make the impact attacks against i have a hard time seeing how this can kill more than 4-5 models in total.

[Albinoprince]

You should probably brush up on the impact attack rules (or rather the 'Cavalry Charge' rules) :-)

You can stop and make impact attacks only once during a charge. You then make impact attacks against all models in the mounts 0.5" melee range. After that you continue to your charge target and make your one charge attack.
Even with absolutely ideal placement of the models youe make the impact attacks against i have a hard time seeing how this can kill more than 4-5 models in total.

Yea, re-reading this blows my mind. There are at least eight to ten people (myself included) in my flgs that are doing this wrong! Weird, cuz we have quite a few rules lawyers in our midst. We've all been playing it that you get an impact attack against every model in the path (like a trample). Weird. I'll be fought by every person in our group, but rules are rules. Thanks for pointing this out.

[2manhunters]

You could keep him back behind your caster. This would make sure he isn't a high priority target, letting him survive longer. So you can bring him back in when you've engaged the enemy in melee or killed most of the enemy's high POW ranged attackers.

Also, you could use him with the dog to have counter chargers on either side of your warcaster. Sounds cool anyways....though those are some expensive bodyguards :P