Dismantling the Menoth Brick

[Dyoria]

One of the most frustrating things in playing Cygnar is dealing with Menoth Bricks when you are not fielding lots of Gun Mages. And even then, they dont do that much to jacks. Their $%@*ing choir and their $%@*ing non shooting buff. With the advent of the girded Vigilant, choir will be impossible to dislodge with AOEs (not like we have that many to begin with).

Enter Taryn de la Rovissi. She has a wonderful ability: Shadowfire, which makes the target hit by it, not block LOS of friendly faction models. Small caveat on this, friendly FACTION models, so your whole gun line cant benefit, but thats not really a problem. Since her guns are magical, they can shoot the Menoth jacks despite the no fire chant. And once shot, they are effected by Shadowfire.

Enter in Harlan and Holt. Both are Merc Faction, thus benefitting from Shadowfire. Combined that is a possible 6 shots through the menoth brick to the choir behind them.

But it gets better, Aiyana can Harm a target hiding in the back rows now. Eiryss can always get her disruption rounds on the enemy WC. Karchev cant hide from Eirys behind 3 khador jacks.

Of course she will be better in a Merc list, but she does indeed have her uses for the Swan.

[Negative9]

Don't forget that her second gun can be used to then trigger enliven to dictate when your opponent has to use that dang ability.

[Dyoria]

Thats very true. :) Good call.

Going to buy her the moment she hits the shelf.

[yux]

I prefer a defender with explosovo, and dont both with the chior just shoot the jack, they get frustrated because the brought the chiuor for no usefull purpose. (even more so if you kill their jack.)

[Mutton]

Step 1: Take Siege or eHaley
Step 2: Laugh Heartily.

[Dyoria]

Explosivo wont work come the Vigilant. Girded: this model and any models in b2b are immune to blast damage.

Sure Siege and eHaley are the answer, but what if you are not using them? :)

Besides everytime I touch eHaley my friends give me that look we reserve for out menoth player, "oh you cheesey conceived out of wedlock" look.

[GunMageinTraining]

Taryn + Devil Dogs + Marshaled Mariner or Mule = Muahahahahaha

[Negative9]

Taryn + Devil Dogs + Marshaled Mariner or Mule = Muahahahahaha

Taryn+Shaw + Mariner or Mule for cheaper cost

[whitekong]

Taryn+Shaw + Mariner or Mule for cheaper cost

Taryn + hearne and John even cheaper.;)

[Invaderzahn]

Shadowfire only works for Friendly Faction Models, Which means Friendly Merc models.

[GunMageinTraining]

Shaw+ Mariner would be a good one, I don't think a Mule would be as good, though reroll on it? Not bad...... actually... Hrm..

Taryn, Shaw and a Mule would probably be an excellent fit if you had a deadeye caster. eHaley even gets some TK shennanigans with the mule. (no TA though which is a true pity).

Taryn, Thor and an Avalancher would be very nice too.

[dergliss]

Explosivo wont work come the Vigilant. Girded: this model and any models in b2b are immune to blast damage.

Sure Siege and eHaley are the answer, but what if you are not using them? :)

Besides everytime I touch eHaley my friends give me that look we reserve for out menoth player, "oh you cheesey conceived out of wedlock" look.

"immune to blast damage" doesn't make them immune to the direct hit, right? Just immune to the half damage taken from being in the blast area, as far as I know.

[Ysthrall]

Flank em.

The Menoth brick is slow... slower than the troll brick, or even the Skorne brick :)

Storm lances or trenchers up the flank to threaten a charge or shoot away.

Heck, a Hunter would be worth it for blasting away at the squishy solos. Expensive, but effective.

I find I need two avenues of attack, a magical and a shooty. I learnt Warmachine playing Stryker vs menoth, and Earthquake or sniped LGs is a nasty choice to be on the recieving end of. Haley also does horrible magic threat pretty well.

Failing that, a completely split force require sinking a lot of points into a group that requires no support. Hence the Storm Lances, maybe with Laddermore....

alternitivly, Kraye with a small battlegroup as the mobile element, and a couple of units as a firebase. Long Gunners and PKs, Kraye and some shooty jacks....

The Menoth Brick is only tough on the one side, in my experience. getting round it is definately the trick, and I wish you well :)

[mydnight]

pcaine's feat ignores LOS. Bye bye brick.

[yux]

"Explosivo wont work come the Vigilant. Girded: this model and any models in b2b are immune to blast damage."

most menoth jacks dont care about the blast damage eitehr, but the first model hit (the jack in question). Will get kicked in the teeth with a power 15, siege can make that a half armor shot.

If you dont want to run Ehaley and siege (our two best casters).

well be prepared for a harder match up.

Long gunner are auto useless, (they where because of reeddeemers anyway)
Arcane gun mages can do a CRA, do try to kill the wakest jack in the brick.

Black13 can be utterly useless as despite what everyone thinks here they are not that good (sure they will most likely get your points back, but they hit like girls, like the rest of cygnar)

ayana and defender, is almost same trick as siege. And it will work with anycaster.

Ecaine should be trying to flank the brick and go for caster kill.

pcaine should cry because because his feat is a death sentence against kreoss. but should be able to snipe the long gunners, and have ayana give long gunner leader magic bullet.

then have them perform a CRA (since leader only shooting the others just cheer him on).

the nemos should laugh and punish them for using anti range instead of anti magic.

darius well he should be meleeing them.

and kraye should hope to god that cyclone has a hidden warjack bond that says it has d20 initial attacks if kraye is leading it.

[phreaker187]

As stated before, eHaley and Siege are our best casters against Protectorate. Explosivo ignores the "no shooty" chant. EHaley forces them to do no magic the whole game or face the wrath of a time bomb or mind control. PNemo forces them into no magic too thanks to Voltaic Snare and Chain Lighting.

Bring a well rounded list and make them pick, some range, some magic, and some smash face.

[DonJean]

Actually Magic bullet on eCaine works wonders as well. Sniped Gun mages with magic bullet should deal with the choir fairly early on.

And then all the rest of the stuff added here works well.

[Sharp]

Wow, so all this time that I've been playing MkII in "friendly games" with the Menoth players around here, none of them has found it sporting to inform me that magical weapons get around the choir? I know it's my responsibility to read all the cards, but there's been a bit of a backlog and I haven't gotten to the choir yet.

[Hjelmen0]

Yep, ranged weapons with the magical weapon advantage can shoot targets affected by Safe Passage :) "The more you know", and all that :D

[Ysthrall]

However, as I found out the other day, magical ranged weapons still can't target Wracks (with focus on).

But Stormsmiths and Junior can still blow them away.

[dicegod]

pcaine's feat ignores LOS

Uh no, it doesn't.

[mydnight]

Uh no, it doesn't.

Doesn't 'ignore intervening models' essentially means he doesn't need LOS to shoot; ie he shoots everything in his control area?

[Hjelmen0]

He doesn't ignore terrain during Maelstrom, so he doesn't ignore LOS entirely :P

[vintersbastard]

However, as I found out the other day, magical ranged weapons still can't target Wracks (with focus on).

You can target them just fine, you'll just miss all the time. Makes a big difference if you use AOEs.

[Arkady]

Taryn+Shaw + Mariner or Mule for cheaper cost

What does Shaw do?

[Falcon42]

Yep, ranged weapons with the magical weapon advantage can shoot targets affected by Safe Passage :) "The more you know", and all that :D

:eek: Seriously?! Ohhhh, my pal is DOOOMED!!

[pureblood]

I don't see the fascination with having mercs in a cygnar force if you want mercs have a merc army? There are solutions to this problem within the cygnar ranks!

[TKaz84]

Because Cygnar has one of the widest pools of mercs available to them in the entire game. No reason not to take advantage of it.

[pureblood]

Because Cygnar has one of the widest pools of mercs available to them in the entire game. No reason not to take advantage of it.


So your basically saying Cygnar can't cut it then? Its always about the easy button! I could understand it if their wasn't ways round it within the Faction but with a little thought I sure anybody could find a solution within the Cygnar ranks even maybe from one of the models that some have put down in other threads!

[Varius]

So your basically saying Cygnar can't cut it then? Its always about the easy button! I could understand it if their wasn't ways round it within the Faction but with a little thought I sure anybody could find a solution within the Cygnar ranks even maybe from one of the models that some have put down in other threads!

Yeah, why use a drill to put in a screw when you have your trusty hammer?

[pureblood]

Yeah, why use a drill to put in a screw when you have your trusty hammer?

Point made!

[MajorGilbear]

Yeah, why use a drill to put in a screw when you have your trusty hammer?
Point made!
*Hands pureblood a hammer* Khador's that way *points north*.

[pureblood]

*Hands pureblood a hammer* Khador's that way *points north*.

I'm in no need of a hammer thank you very much!

[Gorbad]

I don't see the fascination with having mercs in a cygnar force if you want mercs have a merc army? There are solutions to this problem within the cygnar ranks!

I don't see the problem with it either. If you can use them in your Cygnar army, and you can, why not include them? Sure, there are a few specific cases where things doesn't quite work out because of a Cygnar/Merc distinction but personally I don't feel compelled to not use a given model if it does something I want just because it got a green card instead of a blue card.

[knight_actual]

WAAAAY back when I just started WM, I had fully cygnar builds. But then I ran into Inhospitable ground and decided that sucking death while unable to charge sucked and included the piper.

Then siege came out and Rienholt made it into my lists too.

Then Hordes came out and bucking jenny helped me even the odds against the dang fury mechanic.

Then the number of incorporeal models started to ramp and Ayana and Holt got enlisted.

Then I bought into Retribution and Eyriss was no longer a merc :)

[AxeHappy]

The way to think with Protectorate is peeling an onion. The Key players are the Covenant of Menoth... the dude reading a book that says no Knockdown, problem with him is that you can't instant kill him he only takes one wound at a time soo you need to take him out early, then there are those psalm singing pansies the Choir who can sing No Magic, No Shooting or We hit you harder. Another one you may want to remember is the Vassal who can boost up their jacks.

[veragor1206]

Essentially the POM get most of their power from the amount of buffs and special abilities getting thrown around. Take out their buff supply, Choir, Covenant, Vassals, Wracks, ect . . . and they are pretty easy to beat. Timing is the key especially with things like Greater Destiny and Kreoss's feat.

[knight_actual]

removing choir buff is v' difficult. 1.) they are in the back, 2.) there are more pressing threats that demand the attention of your ranged elements, 3.) you need to eliminate all 6 of them. Reclaimers and vassals are far easier to destroy because of reasons 3 and 1 appropriately.

Menites kill front line, clustered 1 w infantry good -> vanquisher+vassal. Avoid stormbladeguard, swordknights- bring s.lances and shooting units or more jacks.

Menites cannot be knocked down - avoid pStryker.

Deal with range proof jacks with either 1- powerful caster magic + powerful ranged army, or 2- magical attacks. pNemo, eHaley, Kraye fits into category 1 forcing them to choose to die to shooting or be spelled. eNemo, Siege, eCaine belongs in category 2 that just don't care.

Bastions are tough but slow. Shoot them a few times, then charge. Beware that High reclaimer brings them all back if 1 survives so have a backup plan to eliminate the last one way back there.

[Ysthrall]

What does the Covenant actually do? Everyone's complaining about it but none of the Menite players at my LGS use it...

Re:the High Reclaimer: As his army is often behind smoke, it's slow for a Menoth Brick. Flank it. And while his feat is indeed a pain (I hadn't considered it's use on Bastions. Ouch), I'd rather deal with that than Severius, Reznik, or Kreoss'.

[Hellspawn]

I've been thinking of playing menoth. Thanks for the warning! Rovissi dies first!