Paladin of the Wall

[Burn]

What are your opinions on this guy? I think he's a really good solo now. I'm just looking to fill 2 points and the first thing I thought is him.

[Soulblighter]

The Paladin doesnt seem to be worth 2 points to me. I mean for 4 points you can get a Vigilant. Theres no way a Paladin is worth half of a Vigilant. Id be more inclined to use the Paladin if he had gotten Reach like Vilmon has.

[jandrese]

The Paladin actually hits harder than the Vigilant. And doesn't need focus.

[mike07]

I think Paladin(s) with Vilmon are excellent. Imperveous Wall is great for tying up units, and surviving for that glorious round of charging.

[Poet]

Paladins served me well in mk 2.
They are pretty great at high def high arm targets like feral warpwolf, they put good hurt on them.
They are also pretty neat for scenario play.

Vilmon on the other hand.... no.

[Seon]

Paladins and vilmon are truly worth it.
slowly advance up the board with impervious wall nothing can really get them unless they you either reach the enemy line, or the enemy advances his magical ranged weapons close enough to shoot you, then next turn you've won ;)

[Poet]

Paladins and vilmon are truly worth it.
slowly advance up the board with impervious wall nothing can really get them unless they you either reach the enemy line, or the enemy advances his magical ranged weapons close enough to shoot you, then next turn you've won ;)

You probably haven't played much against retribution, circle, cryx, A+H, Protectorate.
all of those have such an abundance of magic attacks, that impervious wall isn't even worth noting when your opponent asks you what your stuff does.

[UltimaOmega777]

Paladin's and Vilmon are worth the 7 total points. And I run them with The Harbinger and A Hierophant so if the dice are in the favor I basically have 3 immortal Weapon Brick Walls with Amazing Mats of 8 and 9 on Dartan, with a Weapon Master P+S 14 and 15 on Dartan who can Charge up to 11 Inches thanks to the Harbinger's "Crusader's Call". Like the Fluff they go well together, so even if there are Magical attacks smashing against the three paladin's you do have a chance to survive thanks to Harbinger's Martyrdom.

Course if you're not interested in that it Also Depends on what you have as your Warcaster for those two points.

[Burn]

Course if you're not interested in that it Also Depends on what you have as your Warcaster for those two points.

I have the boring stock combo as the rest of my list. Kreoss, Redeemer, Vanquisher, Reckoner, Vassal x2, Min Choir, Covenant, Bastions.

I used to bring another choir, but its too much choir I think. So now I have 2 points free. Putting another support is too much support, I think, so I was thinking of something offensive.... Too bad there's nothing really shooty at 2 points.

The only way I can think of using the paladin is to counter-charge when they finally hit my lines, nothing fancy.

[Poet]

Too bad there's nothing really shooty at 2 points.

Check out Taryn, she's awesome on her own, and better with friends.

[UltimaOmega777]

I have the boring stock combo as the rest of my list. Kreoss, Redeemer, Vanquisher, Reckoner, Vassal x2, Min Choir, Covenant, Bastions.

I used to bring another choir, but its too much choir I think. So now I have 2 points free. Putting another support is too much support, I think, so I was thinking of something offensive.... Too bad there's nothing really shooty at 2 points.

The only way I can think of using the paladin is to counter-charge when they finally hit my lines, nothing fancy.

You have a good warjack focus Battlegroup but with Kreoss I'm not so sure. I'd Go with Severius for 8 focus, Eye of Menoth, and Vision, and Defender's ward. Yet with no Arc Node Severius might not work so well for his offensive capabilities.

You've already maxed out on your Warjack Boosting units so all I would go with is Paladin of the Wall. OR maybe switch in Severius and fill the two points with a Heriophant. (Yes I love me some Heriophant)

[Justicator]

Geez, I should just make this a Macro:

I love the Paladins and Vilmon

My favorite tactic is to use them as a Bait and Switch for the opponent. All 3 of them hit very hard and are survivable. The opponent always has to at least acknowledge their presence on the field.

I run them out early and keep them off to the side of and slightly ahead of my Jack line as I approach the enemy. This gets the opponent to worry about them a little and distracts from my battlegroup.

Set them up so the opponent has to choose taking a major hit from the charaging Paladins - or - pay attention to them and lose field position and possibly take major hits from the battlegroup.

Either way - if they choose to deal with the Paladin threat or they don't, the paladins will get into the fight and start putting big dents in heavy jacks.

Stone and Mortar stance is often much more your friend than Impervious Stance. Plus you can free strike from Stone and Mortar unlike Mk1.

[moorg]

Too bad there's nothing really shooty at 2 points.
Take a look at Kell Bailoch.

[Soylent]

The Paladin actually hits harder than the Vigilant. And doesn't need focus.

The Vigilant has 21 more boxes, doesn't have to forfiet move/action to be ARM21, has the ability to boost at a MAT8 and can perform power attacks.

That said it's not a bad offensive model. Just have trouble finding the points for it.

[bamburn]

The Vigilant has 21 more boxes, doesn't have to forfiet move/action to be ARM21, has the ability to boost at a MAT8 and can perform power attacks.

That said it's not a bad offensive model. Just have trouble finding the points for it.

You can't take into account the Choir in boosting the Vigilint unless you want to take into account all faction buffs in respect to both the paladin and the vigilint.

The Paladin is +2 MAT, +1 Spd, +2 P&S, doesn't need any focus, and is a weapon master with Crit fire.

The Vigilint has 21 more damage boxes, doesn't need to give up move or action for ARM 21 (like you've said), but needs focus to do power atatcks, run, or charge.

Is that paladin worth 2 points? Absolutely. Is the Vigilint worth 4? Yeah, he may even be worth 5, but no one tell me PP.

[Soylent]

I mentioned the Choir because I have yet to see a list posted without atleast a minimum unit, though I'm sure there's one out there. Also, as far I can recall, the Vigilant can gain every buff the Paladin can and more(the only things in the Paladin's favor there is it's a soul and it can be affected by Martyrdom).

Regardless of needing focus to perform power attacks, it still can do them where the Paladin cannot so the 'but' should be 'and'.

[bamburn]

I mentioned the Choir because I have yet to see a list posted without atleast a minimum unit, though I'm sure there's one out there. Also, as far I can recall, the Vigilant can gain every buff the Paladin can and more(the only things in the Paladin's favor there is it's a soul and it can be affected by Martyrdom).

Regardless of needing focus to perform power attacks, it still can do them where the Paladin cannot so the 'but' should be 'and'.

That is fair, but there are times when our opponent is good at taking out our jack support, or a situation comes up that we get a jck disrupted. At that point, it comes down to bare bones ability and the Paladin is completely self sufficient, while the Vigiliant would lack.

Keep in mind I am making the case for the paladin being worth 2 points, not that the paladin is equal to the Vigilant. The original posit was that the paladin isn't worth 2 points because the Vigilant is worth 4. I disagree with that.

[Soylent]

It wasn't a matter of points, more of value. I just find that I'm much better off taking the Vigilant than the Paladin for the role of survivability. The fact that it's been argued elsewhere that for half the points you can take the Paladin I had mentioned that you get an extra 21 boxes for an extra 2 points.

[SteveinNYC]

For two points I'd take the Choir, Vassal or Covenant first. If all those things are in your list and you've got two points left then it comes down to playstyle. I like to go first, so I'd take Anastasia before a Paladin. If you find yourself saying I wish I had one more charge attack that beats face then take a Paladin.

I don't like two Paladins and Vilmon, for that many points I think Gravus has a similar role and is more survivable for fewer points. I do like Vilmon on his own though, high MAT, high P+S, reach and weaponmaster means if I fall just short of killing something then I can send Vilmon in to finish the job.

[cryptomancer]

Ehhhh... He's OK. As two-point UBERSOLOS now seems to be a "thing" in MK II for some factions (see: Warwitch, Mage Hunter Assassin), the Paladin is solid, if a little boring. It's one attack. He's going to die the next turn, but he's a fast, hard-hitting attack. With someone like eKreoss, he might get two, depending on his target.

Guided missile for... uh... well, not "the win", exactly... hmm...

-Crypto

[Lanz]

Paladins are awesome. Out of all the two-point solos(in fact out of most things in the game), nothing hits as hard as a paladin. PS14/15 weaponmasters are pretty much unheard of outside of the protectorate, and are worth it for the sheer damage they can cause in a single attack.

They can be relied on to punch through the heaviest armor, and cause catastrophic damage to lower armor 'jacks. Every light 'jack I have ever charge/free stuck with a paladin ever has always lost at least 2 systems in the process. They have the defensive buffs to survive the trip across the field(when played well), and can unleash some scary damage once they get there. Speed 6 makes them all the more brutal, giving models like vilmon a frightening threat range paired with his godly MAT and PS.

They are totally worth their points in a list that can capitalize on an armored cruise missile.

[Cannotcope]

I mentioned the Choir because I have yet to see a list posted without atleast a minimum unit, though I'm sure there's one out there.

25pts
eKreoss
Vanquisher
Vassal
Knights Exemplar
min Errants
max Vengers

Destroyed Fiona the Black and Karchev in the local Resurge-tourney. (no vp per SR2010 remaining in opponent's army at end of game/assassination)

35pts (34pts actually, wanted 16pts to add for the 50pt list, so no wracks taken)
eKreoss
Vanquisher
Fires of Salvation
Vassal
Knights Exemplar
min Errants
max Vengers

Destroyed Siege in same tourney (he had an untouched but inert Defender, Jr and half the Black 13 remaining when Siege died, but mostly because I didn't even get to the Venger charges on my feat turn)

At 50pts I finally added a choir, and pulled off a draw against eCaine (stupid multi-story building terrain, bad TO bad TO).

FWIW, I'm looking forward to eKreoss's Tiers.

Choirs are not auto-includes. They are very good (great, awesome, spectacular) includes, but you can play and win without them.

That said, while I agree that the Vigilant is a better option for simply surviving and holding a point, the Paladin does hit harder. Imho, it's not clear cut that the Vigilant is always better. Depends on the rest of the army and what you plan to do with the Paladin/Vigilant. Personally, I might take both. Few things are quite as fun as telling your opponent, "yeah, everything is ARM 21, enjoy :P"

[Soylent]

Choirs are not auto-includes. They are very good (great, awesome, spectacular) includes, but you can play and win without them.


Vanquisher doesn't need anything to function well(even without focus) and FoS has the imprint to offset the lack of choir.

Also did y'all play with modified rules? Shouldn't have been able to take epics on the first round.

As I mentioned before, the Paladin is a nice little offensive model but I'm not as smitten with him as others are.

[Cannotcope]

Vanquisher doesn't need anything to function well(even without focus) and FoS has the imprint to offset the lack of choir.

Which is why I took a vassal instead of the choir.


Also did y'all play with modified rules? Shouldn't have been able to take epics on the first round.

Never saw the official rules for the tourney from PP. Our TO made no comment about this matter, except to mention that we could change from non-epic to epic as our lists increased in points. At which point I mentioned that the rules no longer mention any points requirement to field epics, and he concurred allowing us to field epics at any level and change/revert(?) from epic to non-epic as we increased out points values (if we so choose).

I believe we did play with modified rules, due to time constraints we played over several weeks, our points values were 25-25-35-50 over the 4 rounds we did (to make it easier on our newer crop of players), we were allowed to use two different lists(and casters) in rounds 1 and 2, then had to pick one of those lists to build rounds 3 and 4(not sure if that was a change or not).


[on topic]
As for the Paladin, it's a good model (rules-wise) and can certainly fit into many lists. If you have 2 points and all the support you need (choir, vassal, covenant, etc...) then I would almost always take on. I find it more useful than a second choir (especially with the new choir and field promotion rules). I probably wouldn't take him before taking most of our support choices, though in a small game I might, as too much support can be a problem in small games.

[Marius]

You probably haven't played much against retribution, circle, cryx, A+H, Protectorate.
all of those have such an abundance of magic attacks, that impervious wall isn't even worth noting when your opponent asks you what your stuff does.

Also Cygnar. All those gun mages have magical attacks now. Of the worst kind too - ranged.

[Yertle4]

Good solid 2 pt model, like the Manhunter for Khador.

He hits really hard when he focuses on it, he's very survivable when you want him to be. Like Protectorate :)

[Fishman]

Hmmm, I must admit that I do not feel the Paladin to be worth the space in a list. The monks have better strike range and more attacks, for a point more you get a Senechal.(SP?) You could take a reclaimer who can boost with souls or give focus to jacks thus freeing up your caster + he has soul storm.

That said I own Villmon and the 4 Paladins (1 role play even) and would consider them with MKII Harbinger.

Unit attachments are going to be big in MKII and I just see the Paladin being set aside for support models or other UA WC or WA.

[SarimRune]

They do hit hard. That's about all they got. Outside of Harby, I can never get one to survive long enough to get him into any real conflict. I must admit, when looking for something to do with my last 2 points...I almost never consider him.

I don't consider 21 Arm very survivable. I always tend to face Weaponmasters and they can butcher him even without a charge (and a bit of luck). I really wish he had kept at least some of his DEF buff.

The Paladin isn't a bad solo. It's just that, we have so many better choices.

It's funny because this is exactly the same place he was in before, in MKI. Some people extolled his virtues. Most people said he was meh. The more things change, the more they stay the same I guess.

[Moonblade]

I've used them to some extent in scenario play, and they do have a niche as really tough rocks. With Vilmon their survivability is enhanced and they have choices to take. Gigantic warjack swinging a sword? Sniping widowmakers? Go Impervious. Gun Mages? Go Stone & Mortar.

I like them better than the Vigilant because their stances are immune to knockdown, so they're more or less immovable from where they stand. Although the Vigilant does have full array of power attacks and many more damage boxes, the Vigilant doesn't induce fear in my opponents when they want to disengage. A warcaster engaged has to eating MAT 10, P+S 14 + 4d6 damage when they want to move out of that non-reach sword. Absolutely devastating.

Most probably I'll soon try to use them as spray targets for my Cleansers.