35pt Mohsar - Questions from Domination

[Corbeau]

This is what my pre-Domination list looks like:

Mohsar the Desertwalker (*5pts)
* Megalith (11pts)
* Pureblood Warpwolf (9pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pt)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Nuala the Huntress (2pts)

With Domination, I obviously want to include Gallows Groves. From where could the points come? I really don't want to cut a beast - that's simply not my playstyle - but I can't feasibly cut the Bloodtrackers either. That leaves the Shifting Stones. Painful choices, eh? The dilemma it has me re-examining exactly how useful Shifting Stones are, and I realized that I really only use them for one thing: extending Megalith's movement range. That's pretty much it, for three entire points. That may well be a deficiency in my play though, which could be rectified, so I have a question for you:

Why are (or aren't) Gallows Groves superior to Shifting Stones?

[Kurst]

You mean not wanting to cut out a beast totally or just any of those particular beasts? Personally, I'd swap one of the Warpwolves for a Gorax.

[Corbeau]

None of those three beasts are on the cutting board. They work extremely well with Mohsar and each other. So it's either the Stones or Nuala.

[Snowmelter]

I love to run gorax(es) with Mohsar. CLose to Megalith it is 6 attacks (including free charge) Mat 10, POW16. He can wreck heavies. So the suggestion to swap a pureblood for a gorax is very viable.
If you really do not want to change your beasts, take out the Stones.
What Stones do:
-Block charging lanes (you do not need this with pillars at hand)
-manage fury (12 fury on a 8(9) fury warlock is not too much, you do not need it)
-heal beasts (all your beasts can heal themself)
-teleport, this is actually two parts:- faster movement for Megalith (if you can run first turn, he should be far enough upfield) or Mohsar (who can also use Sands of Fate)
- placing behind enemy lines (Course of Shadows lets you do the same)

You do not need Stones. If you would like to keep them, drop only the UA and take only one GG.

[Corbeau]

Yeah, it looks like the Stones will go. I originally added them almost without thought, as an auto-include for Circle, and they are very good at giving Megalith a larger threat... but that's all. Since I'm shifting towards a more skirmish-based, less in-your-face style lately (I used to run a Feral and Wolves of Orboros instead of a Stalker and Bloodtrackers), Megalith shouldn't be teleporting into the middle of things anyway. Good play should suffice to replace the Stones. I'd been considering swapping them for more Bloodtrackers even before Domination got spoiled.

[Razious]

I dont think GG can fairly compared to stones. They do two totally different things. That being said, they're both great utility pieces. Honestly, Id want both.

[skillt]

Yeah, it looks like the Stones will go. I originally added them almost without thought, as an auto-include for Circle, and they are very good at giving Megalith a larger threat... but that's all. Since I'm shifting towards a more skirmish-based, less in-your-face style lately (I used to run a Feral and Wolves of Orboros instead of a Stalker and Bloodtrackers), Megalith shouldn't be teleporting into the middle of things anyway. Good play should suffice to replace the Stones. I'd been considering swapping them for more Bloodtrackers even before Domination got spoiled.

You are massively undervaluing shifting stones. From a simple perspective they teleport your models and heal aspects. From a complex perspective they create blocks to charge lanes, stop non reach infantry/beasts from engaging, prevent LOS to your caster, help with fury manipulation and can contain primal'd warbeasts from frenzying on more important models while remaining safe from retaliation. They allow your caster to cut for fury later in the game by healing them. They are 100% auto include in every army as a pair. The only option is weather or not you take the UA. If you follow my advice here, I promise you it will make your lists significantly better. They do SO much more than teleport things.

I would drop the Pureblood for a Gorax, add in 3 gallows groves and the 2nd unit of stones. I realize you do not want to do that; try it and see how it goes. You may be presently surprised. You really don't need ghostly in this army (Curse of shadows), and with the groves (Crevasse) you will not need its spray any more. These suckers are going to replace the majority of the need for infantry clearing in Mohsar. Crevasse is so stupidly good with them.

You may also be able to drop the blood trackers. I will have to test the GG and crevasse just to see if it is as crazy good as I think its going to be. No clue what would be put in instead. Maybe Woldstalkers.

Will

[Corbeau]

You know, I almost have to ask then: why not drop Megalith? Note that the Pureblood isn't primarily there for Ghostly - he's there for Blessed and a 10" spray (my metagame adores defensive buff spells). If I had to lose one or the other, I'm not at all sure that Megalith is better than the Pureblood. Gallows Groves mean that Geomancy may not be the necessity that it used to be, and that two extra points could go some serious distance. Example list:

Mohsar the Desertwalker (*5pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Pureblood Warpwolf (9pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Nuala the Huntress (2pts)
Gallows Grove (1pts)
Gallows Grove (1pts)
Gallows Grove (1pts)
Gallows Grove (1pts)

I'm not really feeling the idea of removing the Bloodtrackers. They're great with Mirage, and even solid against heavies with Curse of Shadows around.

[Snowmelter]

Channeling and Geomancy are by far not the same. Do cast spells out of caster activation and to cast more spells than your caster has fury makes geomancy great. The possibility to do this from ARM19 30+ hit points beasts is only icing on the cake.
With undergrowth and primal and CoS you can debuff as much as any caster can buff his stuff. I love my Megalith.

And without a wilder you will cast even less spells from Mohsar, as you will have to pay for the animus.

and to the number of GGroves: Why does everybody want to field 4? 2 should be enough to have arc nodes until after turn 3. What ever happens after turn 3 will be so close to our caster, you do not need arc nodes. More or less my opinion for every caster.

[skillt]

Indeed, if you are not planning for character restrictions, I see no reason to not have Megalith in almost every list. His animus is insane, as is Weight of stone. Geomancy is simply icing on the cake.


I think 4 is the right call because they will be spellmartyr-esque. Throw them out there, channel your spell and then they die (at least your opponent has to kill these ones... O.o). Also, the no tough or healing is HUGE. May actually end up being better than the channeling for most of our casters.

Will

[Corbeau]

Fair enough. I'll probably try swapping Nuala for 2 Gallows Groves, and testing if that is sufficient. I'm aware that the Pureblood is not well loved online, but he's been an MVP in almost every game that I've played with Mohsar. Having a powerful ranged attack is a big deal with pillars around (and he does benefit from Shifting Stones as well).

And believe it or not, I hate the Gorax. It's powerful, don't get me wrong. I even used to run it, but I hate basically saying "here's a beast that won't be a threat next turn, so you don't even HAVE to kill it off right now". Mohsar wants to force hard choices, IMO, and Primal makes the opponent's choices easier.

[skillt]

Yes, he does, but he unfortunatly is required to kill some things. You cannot kill the Avatar in this list. pButcher will be a huge problem w/ the dog and or iron flesh. If your playing casul games, go for it and drop him. I would not take the list to a tournament without a Gorax in it. The model is also stupid looking. The new one is a little better.

Will

[Corbeau]

That's odd, because I distinctly recall killing the Avatar with my Gorax-less Mohsar lists in the past. And not as a one-off thing. Maybe the locals aren't protecting it right or something, but it always dies if it needs to die.

Though admittedly I'm also accustomed to throwing/slamming it around instead, so perhaps it's a bit dependent on the opponent's placement and the scenario. Scenarios like Killbox are usually where I go to my alternate eKaya list. I've never won a tournament killbox game with Mohsar.