Boomhowler & Co as Front-liners?

[MadJack]

I've got an idea I'm mulling around in my head about using Boomhowler & Co as front-line, first-wave attackers in my Cygnar force. Here's my thought: with AS (from Jr, or my caster, depending on the rest of the army), these guys are ARM 19, and with Boomhowler's fell calls, they're also tough on 4+. That means that if I use them as shields to protect the advance of the rest of my army (which they should be good at because of their medium bases), they shouldn't just get swept away by enemy shooting, and should still be mostly intact when it comes time to engage the enemy. In theory, even if they don't do much when they engage the enemy, the rest of my army should still be in really good shape for a follow-up attack.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Do you see any flaws with my theory?

[Mar]

They don't have ranked attacks and they are medium size, which could provide a problem for your smaller based shooting models.

[ZenBattleLust]

They're only about as expensive as Trenchers (our other tradition screening unit) so I don't think it's too bad of an idea to compare them. For each trencher that you expose to fire you can screen about 3" of your army. For each trollkin, ~1.5", which does hurt. Their high arm is also offset by their poor def. You can get away with holding a couple of your trenchers back behind the smoke, still shooting, whereas all of your trollkin will be exposed. But, then again, the trenchers only have 2" and a point of rat on the trollkin. The trollkin have a point of pow on their guns. You'd need to deadeye the guns to get any use out of them, but the same is almost as true of trenchers. The trenchers who are exposed to fire end up being def 15. The trollkin 12. Snipers, who have a tough time hitting trenchers, end up not caring one bit about the trollkin armor. Trollkin, on the other hand, are tough. But, and this is a big but, even if you make a tough roll, the army behind you becomes exposed to enemy fire. Even if you kill a trencher, the smoke cloud is still there until next round.

Once they get engaged, while trenchers aren't helpless in melee, pow 9's means that there are certain types of infantry they just won't be able to do anything about. The trollkin, however, are solidly average in melee, making them a whole lot better than trenchers.

I don't think there's a clear winner here. The trenchers are much better screeners, and moderately better shooters. But the trollkin are much better once your army makes contact, and if you have a caster with deadeye (with Sloan, we'll have 4 of those), will be able to get a serious first strike on your opponent's melee. I think it comes down to what you'll be facing, and what the rest of your army looks like.

Against an army that has cavalry, who are able to close a lot of distance very fast, or a lot of heavy armor (which non posted pow 11's don't scare very much) I'd rather take the trollkin. Against opposing armies with a lot of shooty (against whom pow 9 bayonets are actually pretty terrifying) the trenchers.

However, in an army with long gunners, the trenchers can simulataneously screen and let your long gunners shoot things dead, whereas the Trollkin's screening will stop your own fire as much as your enemy's. The trollkin sort of lock you into a more melee mode. Not that melee is such a bad mode to be locked into. Just trying to give a sense of when you'd want one unit or the other.

[Steamsmith]

I've got an idea I'm mulling around in my head about using Boomhowler & Co as front-line, first-wave attackers in my Cygnar force. Here's my thought: with AS (from Jr, or my caster, depending on the rest of the army), these guys are ARM 19, and with Boomhowler's fell calls, they're also tough on 4+. That means that if I use them as shields to protect the advance of the rest of my army (which they should be good at because of their medium bases), they shouldn't just get swept away by enemy shooting, and should still be mostly intact when it comes time to engage the enemy. In theory, even if they don't do much when they engage the enemy, the rest of my army should still be in really good shape for a follow-up attack.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Do you see any flaws with my theory?

My only issue with this is that you call it "your theory" as if you are the only person who has every thought of it. Other than that, "your theory" is sound.

If you like playing eCaine, try using heightened reflexes on them. They become a super annoying tarpit. I haven't used it in SR10, but i imagine it will be very effective.

Good luck! Boomhowler and Co. are becoming some of my favorite models in Mk2.

[whitekong]

My only issue with this is that you call it "your theory" as if you are the only person who has every thought of it.


.
Are you kidding, :rolleyes: he calls it his theory because he posted it.

To th op I think it is a fun idea to try out, if you doesn't work out you can always try something else. It might be a good unit to put in second list's for tourneys, for when you run into those jack heavy army's.

[Gorbad]

One really important thing that Boomhowler and boys brings to the table is big sections your opponent can't trample though. I lost a game Thursday to a trampling Deathjack(I really don't like Infernal Machine+Deathjack!), but the Trolls being medium bases stops that.

I'm trying them in my next game. In combination with Precursors and a Cyclone I reckon that's a very solid line that will stop almost anything.

[MadJack]

They don't have ranked attacks and they are medium size, which could provide a problem for your smaller based shooting models.
Good point, I should have mentioned that I was thinking of this for a melee-centric army. For an army with a decent amount of shooting, they're not so good.

They're only about as expensive as Trenchers (our other tradition screening unit) so I don't think it's too bad of an idea to compare them.
You know, when you put it that way, overall I like the Trenchers better as a screening unit.

One really important thing that Boomhowler and boys brings to the table is big sections your opponent can't trample though. I lost a game Thursday to a trampling Deathjack(I really don't like Infernal Machine+Deathjack!), but the Trolls being medium bases stops that.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. I think if I'm expecting to face a jack-heavy army they're probably a decent choice for screening troops, and if I don't know what type of army I'll be facing, Trenchers are probably a better choice for screening troops.

[whitekong]

The big advantage boomie and the boys have over trenchers is survivability. High arm and 4+ tough are pretty good, trenchers are pretty easy to kill in melee.

[shahryar]

if I do a darius or kraye army I might try and find a way to work them in.

with darius they might give good backup to my swordknights. who knows

[knight_actual]

I've faced this unit across the table before - even with 0 support, they are still a VERY annoying unit because of the 4+ tough, and the get-back-up fellcall.

The trouble is - hit Mr. Boomhowler 3 times and the unit's just lost it's ability to stand back up. now you can take down the rest of the guys and they're unable to charge

[shahryar]

what would be a good caster for them to work with?

Still trying to decide between kraye darius and chuck sloane....or was that kara norris I always forget

[Robert Shepherd]

what would be a good caster for them to work with?

Still trying to decide between kraye darius and chuck sloane....or was that kara norris I always forgetBoomhowler's actually surprisingly good with eCaine - heightened reflexes means they're a 4+ tough unit that can't be knocked down.

[Gorbad]

what would be a good caster for them to work with?

Still trying to decide between kraye darius and chuck sloane....or was that kara norris I always forget

They don't necessarily need all that much support, they are pretty decent on there own. Also, Cygnar is generally pretty merc friendly so a lot of things work on Mercs anyway. Although neither Kraye nor Darius really does anything at all for troops. Don't know about Kara Sloane yet, she sounded more warjack focused to me.
(Chuck Norris jokes wasn't funny the first time around, much less now)

I think something eHaley's Deflection will be a really good buff for them, DEF 14/ARM 18 against ranged attacks is pretty good; or even just Arcane Shield, then they are ARM 19.

Now you really do want to keep Boomhowler alive to benefit the unit, but stick him in the back and it shouldn't be too hard to do.


@MadJack, it doesn't really have to be a jack heavy force to have scary tramples. Tramples in general are just scary now. The jacks hit better and take much less damage. You can certainly defeat it without medium bases on the table, but it does require you to watch your spacing very carefully.

[brotherscott]

I've faced this unit across the table before - even with 0 support, they are still a VERY annoying unit because of the 4+ tough, and the get-back-up fellcall.

The trouble is - hit Mr. Boomhowler 3 times and the unit's just lost it's ability to stand back up. now you can take down the rest of the guys and they're unable to charge
Are you talking about not having a unit leader, or just knocking every troll down and not worrying about the Call to Action Fell call if Boomhowler is gone?

Boomhowler is the unit Officer, when he is removed from the table, you can designate a model to be the unit commander.
The down side is that the unit no longer benefits from Boomhowler's fell calls and better CMD, but you can still charge and run the unit.

Page 72 in Prime MK II. It even gives this as an example.

[echo4lima]

The only Cygnar casters I wouldn't use them with are Haley, Stryker, and eStryker, because the feats are faction only. I'm having moderate success with them as a screening unit, but they are great at holding ground for scenarios.
I'm considering running Gorman with Boomhowler to protect him from shooting. Once you lose Boomhowler, they start dying, fast.

[MadJack]

@MadJack, it doesn't really have to be a jack heavy force to have scary tramples. Tramples in general are just scary now. The jacks hit better and take much less damage. You can certainly defeat it without medium bases on the table, but it does require you to watch your spacing very carefully.
That is true. I've learned that through a few tramples I've performed myself that were much more effective than I expected.

[MajorGilbear]

The only Cygnar casters I wouldn't use them with are Haley, Stryker, and eStryker, because the feats are faction only. I'm having moderate success with them as a screening unit, but they are great at holding ground for scenarios.
I'm considering running Gorman with Boomhowler to protect him from shooting. Once you lose Boomhowler, they start dying, fast.
I dunno, with TB up, pHaley helps their mediocre stats out and pStryker can also help them a lot with either Blur or Snipe and KD (POW12s aren't common for our faction really, and if Boomy & Chums can do more than just screen, they're probably worth considering I reckon).

[capamerica1980]

One really important thing that Boomhowler and boys brings to the table is big sections your opponent can't trample though. I lost a game Thursday to a trampling Deathjack(I really don't like Infernal Machine+Deathjack!), but the Trolls being medium bases stops that.

I'm trying them in my next game. In combination with Precursors and a Cyclone I reckon that's a very solid line that will stop almost anything.

Boomhowler and Co... are on my list after the Faction Book... so sooooon these trollkin will be MINE I SAY MINE MUHHA.... "oh crap I seemed to of left my coin purse at home, why are you locking the door Mr. Boomhowler....no wait....mommy"