Dupli-color sandable primer?

[tedwin183]

So, I have read many places that this stuff is really, really good primer for metal models. I bought a can at a local Napa and primed a Winterguard Standard Bearer with the Black, sandable primer. I have been used to using crappy GW chaos black rattle can stuff, so I was hoping for drastic improvement on the adhesion of the paint to the metal surface. Boy, was I surprised when I took my finger nail, after leaving it dry for 24hrs, and dragged a giant scratch right down to the metal with not too much effort. I thought this stuff was supposed to stick! Is there something I possibly did wrong with it?

I didn't put too much on. It's a nice, even coat.
I let it dry for 24hrs.
I shook the can vigorously for over 1 minute, as the directions state.
I washed the model with hot water, dish soap and a tooth brush, making sure the model was fully dry before it got sprayed.

If this is how Dupli-color performs, I may try Krylon Primer next. I'm tired of having paint jobs I spend a week or 2 on getting chipped up if I look at them funny.

I seal all my models with a gloss coat, followed by a matte coat, but I wanna improve the quality further.


Thoughts?

[Whimper]

I've had some problems with this product as well. I like its ultra-fine mist, but I find that it often will have trouble sticking to a model on the first, and even second coats. It acts more like an ink than a primer, seeping into the recesses but leaving other parts bare.

I like to use it as a base-coat, but over-top of a layer of Krylon white primer. I'll typically prime in white, then do a second layer in Duplicolor black. Depending on my intentions, I might do a third layer in white just on the bright spots of the model.

[BilesyBelcher]

What kind of weather conditions do you prime in?

[tedwin183]

Admittedly, it is a little humid right now. It's been raining the past few days and the humidity claims to be 86%. The temp is in between the recommended 60-90F. This is a laquer-based primer, so humidity isn't going to do much more than slow down the drying process. I've never heard of humidity degrading the integrity of a paint. It just seems really soft. It coats like a dream, I'm just really concerned with the hardness of the primer. I was hoping for something that could take some abuse but this stuff seems no better than any acrylic-based spray paint (i.e. GW black). I was considering trying Krylon to see if it's just the weather conditions or the paint, itself.

[PPS_Mod:MC]

On occasion I have had a bad nozzle or maybe too much propellant was being sprayed out causing a thin coat, but I have never had a problem like you described. I'm an avid fan of Dupli-color and will never go anywhere else for primer.

[HackMaster321]

I actually really like the Krylon Primer, because I've never had nozzle problems, and i've never had it peel or get rubbed off. That and the nozzle is adjustable 360 degress, so you can spray at different angles, depending on your needs.

[Talking Head]

It sounds like it has not dried yet. My experience with the primer is that you REALLY need to let it dry completely because it does come off very easily when it is still wet. Once it has dried though, you are not going to be able to scratch it easily at all.

I'd leave the models to dry for 3-4 more days and take a look then. Priming when the weather is bad is always touch and go with pretty much any brand.

[squidstudios]

I had decent success with Duplicolor, but I recently switched to Rustoleum Primer because my auto store stopped carrying Duplicolor primers. I've used the Rustoleum gray and black primers and have had good success with both, enough to say that I think I like it better than Duplicolor. It still gives a nice, even, fine spray, but it builds up much slower (meaning I can put it on a little thicker and still maintain model detail). It also has a wipable nozzle--no more spraying upside down to clear it!

I'd also advise not intentionally trying to scratch your models, letting the clear coats do the real protecting. :rolleyes:

[Zenassassin]

Dupli-color is passably good, especially for the price, but being automotive stuff, not artist's grade, it is very inconsistent. I have had 3 cans in a row be great, then 2 cans that ruined minis, then great cans...etc.. And no, no user error in the priming. Just inconsistent quality control.

Krylon is more consistent by far, but is not as finely pigmented and you DO lose a little detail with it sometimes.

[tedwin183]

Ok, I am back after spending the last 3 days not touching the model, just letting it "dry". It still scratches off pretty easily. I mean, I can run my fingernail across it and it comes off with very little effort. It won't "rub" off, but it certainly scratches off. I am going to spray some of the can out and see if maybe there isn't too much propellant in it or something. This is really disheartening though. I am thinking of switching to krylon.

[Askew37]

So there is absolutely no reason to pay the ridiculous price of $10 - $15 a can for the GW Primers?

I've tried Army Builder or something of the like (comes in a yellow-green can). The black's nozzle constantly clogs no matter how much I clean it and the white dries with a sandy finish no matter what weather I prime in. I'm not giving them anymore of my money.

I'm thinking of picking up some P3 spray primers to try them out.

But Krylon primers work just as well?

[tedwin183]

Apparently so, though I have heard from many sources that P3 primer is just repackaged Dupli-color primer. I bought my can of Dupli-color for $5. However, I am having some minor trouble with it sticking...

[Omenbringer]

Just out of curriousity, what dish soap did you wash the model with before priming?

[tedwin183]

Dawn. I made sure, after I washed the model, to scrub it down without any soap in order to get any remaining soap off the model. I really think I washed the model off pretty well.

[rvrchamp]

I also tried this before, and must say that it is absolutely horrible.

The paint chips easily, and often also "clumps." It was a complete waste of time and money as I now have to repaint my entire skorne army due to chipping.

For the record I do know how to prime a miniature, and the skorne army was also matt sprayed, and STILL experienced an extroidanare amount of chipping.



While its $16 or whatever per bottle, I went back to the GW primer and love it. I'm not having the same problems with it that I did a few years ago, and it is definitely better than all this auto primer stuff out there.

Just my 2 cents... take it for what its worth.

[tedwin183]

I'm actually in the process of stripping the test model I used. I'm going to go buy some Krylon and give that a try. I just can't risk painting the whole rest of my army with this shoddy stuff.

[Mugu]

I've had extremely mixed results with Dupli, which is why I mainly use either Krylon or Tamiya (usually only when I really need primer and I can't find any Krylon white or light grey).
Mugu

[Nalik]

I use Dupli-Color primer and never had an issue. But I prime in an area with a dehumidifier, I've heard that humidity is a problem with Dupli-Color.

[Esper]

I've had the same issues with Duplicolor not sticking, although it's been inconsistant. Some of the models I primed with it were fine, others scratch if you glare at them funny. These were primed outdoors in various temperatures and humidity conditions, so one or both probably has an effect on how it adheres.

[tedwin183]

I've read that too, which is why I think it's safer to go with Krylon or Rustoleum where I'm located. The back of the can for both say to spray in 50-90F and 85% or less humidity. It's always almost always over 60% humidity here, so Duplicolor probably won't cut it.

[lunchbox1584]

I like using plasti-kote sandable primer it comes in black and white. it goes on even and has never failed me yet. I also prime and paint in my apt so this may help.

I live in new england and i think i paid about $7-$9 a can.

[Corroded]

Im amazed at the posts about Dupli color being anything less than the best thing ever... honestly.


With out exaggeration- Ive primed thousands of models and never had it be anything less than the best stuff ever. Period.

Krylon has a really nice finish- but its heavy, one spray too much and youre screwed. It'll fill in detail faster than anything.

But hey- if its not working for ya- I dont know what could be wrong, never had the experience myself

[tedwin183]

I've considered buying another can to see if it's the can I bought. When I spray it on the model and let it sit and dry, it feels like wax. When i run my finger nail across it, it leaves a kind of waxy residue under my fingernail, kind of like if i scraped my fingernail across a black crayon. I didn't even need to soak the model in simple green, all it required was a brass bristle wire brush and it came right off, even in the cracks. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

[maverick]

One thing I do is heat a pan of water and then take it off the stove and put my can of primer in it for about 20-30 seconds then shake the can up. It seems to help the paint and propellant mix better and I don't get the chalky finish on the minis.

[tedwin183]

Seriously? Am I missing something here? I just went and bought a different can of Dupli-color sandable black primer and I'm getting the same results! The paint comes off if i scratch it with my fingernail. Is this just how the stuff is, or is there something wrong? The humidity isn't very high, the temperature is within the recommended values...I just don't get it!

I have been spray-testing with an old GW fantasy model. I'm going to go get a can of krylon tonight and see if that doesn't stick better. This is getting so frustrating!

[Omenbringer]

Another kinda crazy question, how many coats are you using?

[tedwin183]

I'm trying to do 1, thin coat. As in you can see the contours of the metal still and the paint only JUST covers the bear metal. I dunno, maybe that's even a little too thick?

I am going to try putting my can in some hot tap water for about 5 minutes to fully heat the thing up. Maybe there isn't enough propellant getting mixed into the solid? I dunno. I also have a can of Krylon gray primer to try as well.

Is there a suggestion on coating/anything else anyone has done to counteract bad primer adhesion?

As a note, it is getting rather cold in my neck of the woods (Northern Illinois).

[odinsgrandson]

I use Duplicolor pretty regularly. I find that it does not adhere to the mini so much better than spray paint when it is unpainted.

However, when you paint something over the top of it, the adhesion is greatly increased. I have a set of older minis that I primed in Krylon Flat Black before I started picking up real primer, and they all chip pretty regularly. The stuff that was based in Duplicolor does not chip very often, if ever.

If you want the base coat to stay without having to paint the mini, you might want to spray something else over the top of it. I wouldn't advise this, however, since you can lose details with extra spray coats.

(By the way, I've used the Krylon Gray primer with a black spray paint, and it works quite well. Just make sure that your gray coat is very thin).

[Corroded]

The only thing i can think it is at this point (environmental effects aside) is distance from the model.

Dupli-color has a super fine spray and the particles will begin to dry quickly.

I'm usually about 8-10" away from my models when i prime them. I usually hold them in my hand so i can turn them and coat most the model in one go.

I have had what you say happen to me early on with dupli color- once i figured that out tho its been heaven ever since. Just had to omit opperator error. Really, the stuff amazing :P

[tedwin183]

I'd say I'm probably on the inside of 8-10" range. I'm probably more like 6-8" out. Like I said, I'm going to try setting the can in hot water for a while to get a better mix. How do you guys typically let Dupli-color sit and dry before you paint on it? The can claims it's ready to go in 30 minutes, but I don't know about that...

[Killionaire]

Duplicolor Primer is the best stuff ever. I've never looked back, and I've tried literally like every kind of Primer. Citadel is hideously overpriced. Krylon is heavy grain and often covers detail, but is a decent economy primer.

Duplicolor sandable goes on fine and light, is cheap, and durable. I find it the best possible primer (though I haven't used P3).

[Omenbringer]

I'm trying to do 1, thin coat. As in you can see the contours of the metal still and the paint only JUST covers the bear metal. I dunno, maybe that's even a little too thick?

I am going to try putting my can in some hot tap water for about 5 minutes to fully heat the thing up. Maybe there isn't enough propellant getting mixed into the solid? I dunno. I also have a can of Krylon gray primer to try as well.

Is there a suggestion on coating/anything else anyone has done to counteract bad primer adhesion?

As a note, it is getting rather cold in my neck of the woods (Northern Illinois).
There is your problem, Duplicolor should really be applied in 3-4 thin layers. The first is like an etching coat, the next are for coverage. Don't worry about covering detail, I've never had one lose detail doing this. The stuff dries thin, it is that good. Coming from GW primers I can see why you only did one coat, that stuff is thick.

[tedwin183]

Huh...

I didn't think about that. I have noticed that you can see pretty much every little nook and cranny in the metal, even after it is sprayed. Admittedly, I warmed the can up and the spray came out A LOT more even. I'll try to recoat tomorrow and see how it looks.

Do other people do multiple coats of Dupli-color? Anyone out there who just does 1?

[Gnoa]

Im amazed at the posts about Dupli color being anything less than the best thing ever... honestly.


With out exaggeration- Ive primed thousands of models and never had it be anything less than the best stuff ever. Period.

Krylon has a really nice finish- but its heavy, one spray too much and youre screwed. It'll fill in detail faster than anything.

But hey- if its not working for ya- I dont know what could be wrong, never had the experience myself

This has been my experience as well. I did my entire Khador army using Dupli. I know for a fact that the guys at the game store also use it, because they are the one's who pointed it out to me. I live in the midwest, so when its hot outside, its hot. When it is cold, it is cold. I know priming in colder weather is impossible for me, but i always prime in my garage...which is where i store my primer. I don't know, but i am just happy i don't have to pay 3 times the price for a product that doesn't perform any better for me.

[ledfloyd]

Huh...

I didn't think about that. I have noticed that you can see pretty much every little nook and cranny in the metal, even after it is sprayed. Admittedly, I warmed the can up and the spray came out A LOT more even. I'll try to recoat tomorrow and see how it looks.

Do other people do multiple coats of Dupli-color? Anyone out there who just does 1?

Multiple coats does seem to make sense. When I started painting 10 months ago I bought Primer from an autobody store (no way am I paying $18 for a GW spray can) it happened to be Dupli-color. Since I was inexperienced with spray priming small models I must have put on several light coats in an effort to get complete coverage. But now with a little more Knowledge and Experience I have been doing 1 light coat getting almost full coverage, to lessen the chance of clogging details. Although, now the primer seems to come off pretty easy with just a touch. Multiple light coats must be the way this primer works best. :confused::confused:

[tedwin183]

Yeah, I am actually seeing a good result from heating the can up a bit in hot water before spraying, and making sure I spray several, thin layers.

[Corroded]

I live in Virginia so it usually pretty warm up until late Nov- usually for me:

-If its anywhere form about 60-80 degree's Ill prime.
-Gotta be Zero humidity- primer hates it.
-90% of the time I only do 1 coat, however I do hit the same areas several times in short sprays while priming it. Just make sure its not running.
-Dupli-color actually dries in about 10 mins, 15 or so if its on the cool side.

Glad to hear its working for ya better- just too bad you've had so many hoops to jump thru to get it to work.

[tedwin183]

I'd rather jump through hoops than pay $18 for GW stuff that doesn't even stick very well. Has anyone tried the p3 primers?

[diehard]

Having finally run out of the old original GW white and black I'd had I picked up a can of Dupli-color to try out, although as it's December here in the northeast I'll have to wait a little to try it out.

[Omenbringer]

For the record I normally throw down 3-4 fairly heavy coats when I primer with Dupli color (I would never do this with anything other then Duplicolor or the Tamiya Primer). I have never had any problems with the primer filling/ obscuring any detail (not even protectorate models with lots of filligree).

As for drying, I usually only have to wait 10 minutes between coats (I put primed models under a 60w light bulb when drying).

[Gryphin]

Wow... i am really amazed so many people have had bad experiences with Duplicolor. I live by the stuff, won't use anything else. I've never had problems with the primer rubbing off, chipping, or spraying badly. As long as the can is warmed up, it even sprays nicely in cold weather. (I just primered two 40k tanks with the black primer in 35 degree weather, multiple quick light coats with a can that is kept inside at normal room temp)

[Nion]

My very first spray of Duplicolor went bad, because I was lazy and didn't shake it for very long. It's been fine since then.

[hayguyz]

I usually buy this at AutoZone. I went recently and couldn't find it. Talked to the manager and said they're switching over to Rustoleum.

Where have you been able to find this besides AutoZone? (I'm in US)

[tedwin183]

Oddly enough, I found my can(s) at NAPA. My autozone only carried Rustoleum. Try there or even Wal-mart. I've heard of people finding it there as well.

[Omenbringer]

Heard the same thing from Autozone up here in Detroit area. Good thing there are a multitude of Autoparts stores to choose from.

[tedwin183]

So, I just sprayed in cold weather. WOW, this paint has a life of its own. It becomes very runny when it's cold. I didn't get very good coverage with the first spray. Hoping the next one goes well. Of course, i'm probably going to be sorry for spraying in -2 degree weather...

[halbard100]

Well you just answered a question of mine I was going to ask about spraying in below freezing.

[tedwin183]

After letting them dry, I'm pleased with the results. So, here's a little how-to when you're painting in below 0 F. This paint goes on REALLY thin and liquidy when it comes out. Fill a basin or sink up with hot water (as hot as the tap will go) and place the can of paint in it until the can becomes a little warm. Make sure you shake it for 2 minutes or so, though heating the can helps to mix the paint up, so shaking for 5 minutes or whatever won't make a difference...

When you spray, try to just make sure every part of the model looks wet. It's going to look REALLY wet and you're going to see some metal showing through. When the paint dries, these spots suddenly become black just like the rest of the model. Bring the model back inside as soon as the whole model has a wet shine to it. Wait for 20 minutes or so at room temp. The whole time you're waiting, place the can back in the hot water and let it stay warm. After the 20 minutes, take the model and the can back out, shake it up again for about a minute or so, spray the model again until the whole model has a wet shine to it. bring it back in. Your model should be left for a few hours before you paint on them. It seems like doing this makes the paint adhere better. I think the binders are better allowed to adhere to the metal surface. I dunno...

Anyways, there you have it. Don't be afraid to use this stuff in cold weather...just realize it comes out looking thin and watery...but it dries just fine.

MAKE SURE YOU DON'T OVER COAT! IT GOES ON THIN! BACK OFF IF YOU'RE INCLINED TO CONTINUE SPRAYING!


:)

[HuronBH]

Is Duplicolor back? It went out of production back in August. It is the only Primer I have used for the last 4 years up to August, never ever had a problem with it and it always dries within 30 minutes and cost between $4-$5 per can depending on where you buy it.

It would be really great if Duplicolor was back in production again, I will be able to switch back from Rustolium Sandable Prime which works roughly the same.


-jay

[Nuriochi_sol]

Btw, Michigan folks... Meijer's carries Dupli-color Sandable in black, grey, and white.

[Omenbringer]

Btw, Michigan folks... Meijer's carries Dupli-color Sandable in black, grey, and white.
I've had great luck at Murray's to.

[Ravnak]

For a reccomendation on primer, I find "the army painter" to produce very good primer, in an assortment of colours (though obviously for most purposes, white, grey and black are the only ones of use). I never have models chip (excluding spikey models, like a carniveans spines, which often catch on things).

For a question - How do you store your models? It may sound an obvious thing, but some people dont realise that their models will chip no matter what if not in a good quality case, with soft foam contents.