Grim - 50 point list thoughts

[ryanbo724]

Greetings,

I am running in a 50 point hardcore tournament in a couple of weeks and I need help with my list. I have to be fully painted, and it is timed rounds, so I am trying to keep my model count down (for painting and play reasons).

Grim +6
EBDT 10
Axer 6
Slag 6
Impaler 5
Bushwackers Full 8
Champions Full 10
Chronicler 2
Rune Shapers 4
Whelps 2
Fell Caller/Hero/Totem Hunter 3

I was going to run a thumper in place of the Hero/Totem Hunter, but now that it's no good, I am going to leave it at home.

I would LOVE to run Fennblades + Fell caller in place of the champions, but I don't know if I can buy them, assemble them and paint them before the event.

I could also run a min KSB to help the Champions with those 3 left over points. I don't really need a fell caller as Grim can hand out pathfinder if needed and he can lower defense all over the board with his feat and his spell. The Hero would obviously run with the Champions and the Totem Hunter would be used to threaten a flank, tie up ranged units and hunt solos etc.

I like my beast selection as you need to take an all-comers list. The slag troll gives me warjack/arc node/undead help as well as a damage animus (and I hold true to Malveux creedo from yester year "Always bring a damage buff). The Earthborn will actually be used as a "throw away" missle in this list. I am running pretty beast heavy to begin with, so losing him to take out a juicy target is acceptable in this list. The impaler is there for obvious reasons and the Axer was my backup heavy hitter, and I guess he can still fill that roll as well as provide his excellent animus. Whelps provide me with fury management as needed as well a healing mechanism until I lose a beast or two.

The Runeshapers are there for hopefully Knocking things down when needed, and provide 3 X 3" AOE's in to infantry. The Bushwackers with Chronicler, give me a 10 man CRA unit (quick use of 10 models in a timed environment) but also can be DEF 15 with feign death turn 1 and actually I have had luck with running them as a psuedo tar-pit with Hero's tradgedy. Tough model that knocks you down if you kill them in melee.

The Champions right now are late game, Weapon master, 8 wounds, etc etc., we all know what Champions do. And they are in the list because they are only 5 models and I already have them painted.

I am willing to change this list, it's just what I came up with right now. Any advice or discussion is welcomed and encouraged.

Thanks.

Ryan

[MrChomperz]

I like the list, just make sure you aren't throwing away any beasts you don't have to. If you swapped the EB for a blitzer you could use that one point you have after and the three points you have in the air for a min squad of dygmies. That would be my list.

Grim +6
Blitzer 9
Axer 6
Slag 6
Impaler 5
Bushwackers Full 8
Long riders 7
Horthol 5
Rune Shapers 4
Whelps 2
Min dygmies 4


Tell me if your list works, that sounds fun.

[ryanbo724]

I like the Blitzer and thought about running him. My problem is that I need something in my list that can wipe out a high ARM jack or beast if need be.

A Blitzer is d3 shots to me and not a heavy target exterminator.

Plus, while I like the new repulsion, I love the Earthborn's animus on Grim, plus 2 ARM, yes please, +2 DEF, even better. +2 Movement, I will take it. It's just so versatile.

I have a question for you MrChomperz: Why the Dygmies? Just curious. They don't seem to have a role in your list below. Just curious.

[MrChomperz]

The dygmies are a flank threat and an asset on the feat turn. Plus, with grims new snare gun, if you knock down an enemy caster and pop the dygmies up within 10" of them they are going to die. Only a caster like mortenebra or the butcher camping focus can withstand that.

To get rid of heavies in my list I use slams from the beasts or the long riders. If I go up against a jack heavy khador list then I will take advantage of their slow speed and spam lock the target on the jacks while slamming them backwards and going for the assassination. Otherwise the other heavies in the game can be dropped by the slag or the blitzer.

[ryanbo724]

I ran this list this weekend finally as a test for the upcoming tourney that I am in. I ran it against the list that the person I am running with in the team tourney to see where we lack.

Anyway a couple of notes and questions if someone wants to help me out.

Here is a quick run down of his list and how things went:

He ran:

eMakeda
Rhino
Karn
Gladiator
Bronze Back
Pain Givers (Full)
Immortals (Full)
Praetorians (Full)
Praetorian UA

He is running a melee heavy list as opposed to my more Range oreinted list.

First turn was me running everything up. The Runeshapers, Grim and Impaler run up on a hill about 4" outside of my deployement zone, the bushwackers move up their 6 inches and get the Tale of Mists (because I could) from the Chronicler. The Earthborn runs up next to the forest that the bushwackers are in and the Champs, Axer, Hero and Slag fill in the area between the Forest and Hill. He runs all his beasts up with Road to war. His Immortals and Praetorians do the same. The Praetorians are a little farther forward than the rest of his army.

Second Turn. Grim moves up his 6" to the front side of the hill and pops feat. I catch all 4 of his beasts, some of his Paingivers, eMakeda and most of the immortals. Grim then casts Farstike on the impaler and the Slag Troll and takes a pot shot at Molik, hits and does about 5 damage after the boost. The Runeshapers move up and take out 4 Immortals with 3 AOE's. The impaler throws at Molik and Crits, but he forces for the re-roll and while I hit, I didn't Crit on the re-roll and do some damage. The slag troll moves up and takes a shot at Molik and misses (needed a 5 to hit), buys an extra attack, hits and does about 4 more damage to Molik with the boost. The bushwackers shoot the Rhino for about 9 damage and then bushwack back in/behind the Forest. The Earthborn moves up in front of the Forest within 10" of the Rhino. The Axer charges the Rhino with his animus and does his thresher attack, does some more damage to the Rhino (I rolled badly on damage if I remember maybe 3) takes out a Praetorian who was too close and does 2 or 3 damage to the Bronze back who was also in range. The whelps all move up, 2 on the EB, 2 on the Slag and 1 moves up to the Impaler and removes all the fury on him so I can reave everything next turn. The champs and Hero move up to put bodies between Grim and his army.

His turn he charges some of his Praetorians, they weren't touched by the feat, 5 in to my EB, 3 at my slag troll and 3 in between those two groups. They proceed to do auto 1 wounds to my EB, about 6 damage, some more to my Slag Troll, and the the other 2 use overtake and the 2 swords to take out all of my Whelps. (Less attacks at my beasts in my mind). His Rhino and Bronze Back take out my Axer (I figured they would and you will see why I wanted them to stay put anyway in a minute). The Gladiator does nothing, Molik gets Rush and Road to war, and with his 7" of momement can move up in to contact with my Slag troll. he hits my slag and does some pretty good damage and then uses side-step to move in with my Champs and takes his second swing on my Hero. He hits and does 7 damage. My retalitory stike does 7 damage to Molik (good roll) and takes out his Spirit so he can no longer force him for anything. The Immortals that are left take their Vengence move and do basically 3 total damage to the Champions, maybe 3 on 1 and 1 on the other.

My turn. I see a good combo. The chronicler starts, by moving over within 8" of the Champions and gives them Charge of the Trolls. Grim moves on a diagonal back and towards the middle of the board to free up his LOS. He casts Marked for Death on the Praetorians and shoots one of the Praetorians in the group between the 2 that are around my beasts. He then casts the Slag Trolls animus on the Earthborn and slag troll. The slag troll goes and does some more damage to Molik Karn and takes 1 swipe and kills one of the 3 Praetorians that surround him. The Runeshapers move up and again take out 3 more Immortals from range. The champs go and 2 move up to take out 2 more Immortals, while the other 2 turn to face Molik Karn and quickly finish him off(MAT 9 P+S 13 weapon master....nice). The bushwackers go. 3 of them forfeit movement and CRA one of the Praetorians that is in the EB's back arch, 3 more charge 3 Praetorians, all 3 with back arch bonus, I only kill 2. The other 4 move over and shoot the Rhino, for 2 or 3 damage. I left 1 Praetorian in Melee of the Earthborn. The Earthborn then Tramples over the rest of the Praetorian with +2 to hit taking 1 free strike and 3 damage and ending up in melee with the Rhino and the bronze back. He kills the Rhino in a single hit and does some pretty good damage to the bronze back, but I wanted to kill him and take out 3 heavies in a round, but I left about 15 damage on the bronze back due to poor rolls. (My first damage roll was 1+1+2). The Hero user his tactian ability and charges through the champs and in to melee range of the bronze back and takes out a little more of him. The Impaler moves up and throws at the Gladiator and crits, moving him 2" and knocking him down and doing maybe 6 damage. Oh yeah, the Earthborn snacked on the Rhino to deny fury also.

Makeda ends up with only 5 fury and uses one to upkeep something. The 5 remaining Praetorians do a little damage to the Slag and take out 5 Bushwackers (I failed all 5 tough rolls). He chooses not to shake the Gladiator and he moves him away from combat and up on to the Hill (out of the way of eMakeda). The Bronzeback fills up on Fury, kills the hero but leaves the EB standing. eMakeda uses Engine of Destruction and finishes off the EB and pops her feat (she did this earlier in the turn as the Praetorians and Bronze back had boosted attack rolls). His immortal does nothing. the paingivers medicate all over the place.

My turn, my Runeshaper moves up and takes out the last immortal, one drops the AOE on 3 Paingivers, killing all three, and the last one drops it on my slag troll and the AOE covers the praetorians engaging him and I roll well enough to kill them both. Grim goes and heals 2 on the Slag, gives him his animus and shoots the Bronzeback with boosted damage for 3 or 4 points. The remaining 5 bushwackers forfeit movement and kill off the final 3 Praetorians. The slag troll charges the Bronzeback and with full fury, kills him off. That leaves an opening to eMakeda for the Champs. 2 get the charge in on the her and does about 5 damage total, the rest there, ready for next round.

He called it as he didn't have enough bodies left on the board and Grim was 14" away with a fury to spend on transfer just in case. He had eMakeda, a damaged Gladiator and 1 Paingiver left. I had lost my Axer, EB, Hero and 5 bushwacker.

Notes and observations: Grim is still good and his feat really is nice. I wish they would just get rid of Return fire and give him an actual spell that does something. Anything, I still like the old Prey spell from MKI eMorghul and I think it fits his fluff. I can't say Grim didn't do anything, but at the same time, he didn't really do a whole lot. But I like him and he is GREAT for high defense, high mobility armies because he can shut them down and give you the jump that trolls need.

My beasts were Great, all of them. The Axer played the martyr, he did damage, took out some models, and kept some models right where I wanted them so the Earthborn could charge them the next turn. The slag troll's versatility never ceases to amaze me, shoot Molik from range 2 times with boosted damage (that was the plan anyway, even though I missed the first shot) and then to wreck the (already damaged) bronze back was far more than I thought I would get, add in his aminus and he is PURE gold. The Impaler still does what he does and is a GREAT beast for 5 points. The EB gets a little weaker against Hordes in my mind, with the POW of the tail on the Rhino being the highest at POW 5, but he still can lay on damage and his threat range is awesome with Grim, a forest and the Axer, there are so many ways to get him charging/trampling long distances.

My Champs and Bushwackers were great. Get in the way, can layout damage and with a simple def debuff from Grim I actually did melee damage with my bushwackers. The champs do what champs do. They finished off Molik and were there for the kill on eMakeda. My Runeshapers ended up with a bad matchup from deployment on. But, they took out most of the Immortals with their ranged AOE's, freed up my slag when I needed him freed up and had they not been going against ARM 17 immortals would have done even more damage.

Solos is where I may change some things. I don't think every game will go this way, but at the same time I don't see myself ever running all 4 beasts hot enough to worry about the need to remove fury, though having the flexibility was nice. And, the whelps took 4 attacks and damage that my Slag and EB didn't have to, that is as good as snacking on them. The chronicler is AWESOME and I loved having the ability to give my champs +2 to hit and damage against Molik. The Hero, while HUGE with taking out Molik's spirit, I can't really count on to roll a 5 for damage column or to roll a 13 with 3 dice, but all in all was pretty good. I may swap him for a Totem Hunter. I like his ability to get to the back line with leap, and P+S 16 and 13 on the shield, plus sprinit is just nice. We will see.

Some questions: Is there still the 3" of forest restriction in MK II? We played it as no, if you started in the forest you could see out of it. Can you snack on all models that you trample over or just the last one? In the MKII manual, it defines power attacks as special attacks, does Grim's feat and no Special attacks include power attacks?

Thanks for listening to me ramble on.

[adol]

Is there still the 3" of forest restriction in MK II?
Yes there's the same restriction in mkII.


does Grim's feat and no Special attacks include power attacks?
Yes it does.


Can you snack on all models that you trample over or just the last one? I believe you can snack on any model you boxed during the trample.

[Pink Foam!]

You should reconsider about the blitzer. He is gaining gunfighter (d3 attacks+melee now) and hes no slouch when it comes to melee combat either, especially if he gets the charge off. Repulsion also got ****loads better, I could easily see it pulling grim out of a sticky situation.

[ryanbo724]

I don't mind the Blitzer and I thought about adding him ALOT to the list. It came done to me having enough ranged attacks on the board, and giving myself 1 single target elimination model. The blitzer just isn't that model, he is a great toolbox, but if I need to take out a heavy in one round and I need to ensure it is dead the the Earthborn all the way.

[Beckman]

The Blitzer really goes well in that list.

Also, if you're talking about a tournament setting... Consider Nyss Hunters over Pyg Burrowers. Nyss Hunters have Base Def 15 and POW 9 Weaponmaster on decent MAT. You lose a couple inches of range.... but gain a shooting AND melee threat. Check them out. I'd get rid of the chronicler for a max unit of them, as you would only have Champs at that point to use him with.

If I were you, I'd take the Champs out for a Blitzer and some Swamp Gobbers... But that's just me. My playstyle is heavier on beasts. The -DEF and SPD interacts well with Ranged Units, the Slag interacts well with the Blitzer, making him a credible melee threat (2 POW 17s + bought attacks will kill something dead. The DEF penalties you can give can compensate for the Blitzer's MAT 5.)

With your 3 points, I like the Totem Hunter the best... Sprint on SPD 7 pathfinder stealth is annoying. Kill a solo, run away.... kill a solo, run away.... All while the opponent is busy elsewhere.

Edit:
This is the list I would play:

Grim Angus (*6pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Troll Bouncer (5pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (4pts)
Troll Whelps (2pts)

[ryanbo724]

Thanks for the reply. Where were you in February?!?! I have 15 days till the tourny and I am on vacation for 7 of them. There is just no way to get the models you suggest and get them painted now.

I love the idea of using the Nyss, but I don't own them yet, so I would need to purchase them, assemble and paint them. That's just not going to happen.

I may think about the Blitzer swap for the Earthborn. I have him assembled and primed, I would just need to paint him up and I can get a single beast done in 8 days no problem. I still feel that the Earthborn is better for me for single target elimination, but man, I am tempted to run the blitzer.

I don't really want to run a second heavy, 1 is enough for me and I love champs still.

After my last game I am almost certain that I am going to run the Totem Hunter and not the Hero. 12" threat range with Sprint etc. Just so much better than what the hero is going to bring. CMD 10 really.

Lastly, in your list, what is the KSB really doing? Seems like a waste of points to me in that list anyway. My list running champions would have more of a reason to run one that yours.

[Beckman]

Sucks that you don't have a lot of time. Sorry about that. Maybe it'll give you some ideas for the future :)

Lastly, in your list, what is the KSB really doing? Seems like a waste of points to me in that list anyway. My list running champions would have more of a reason to run one that yours.
It's victory points denial and added survivability for your beasts and caster.

The KSB is a 5 point unit. For that 5 points you can play your caster eeeever so slightly more aggressively. Let's face it; ARM 15 is assassination bait for arced spells.. And you WANT to catch infantry in your feat, so that you can affect them in your -3 DEF and stand still/shoot them with your pygs/nyss. You'll be risking a retaliation to do so. (Example: Arcnodes running and arcing spells from a caster, or other such shinnanigans). It gives your caster a buffer agaiunst assassination runs that enables you to play a little riskier with him.

Second, it provides durability for your beasts. You might say, "Well... My beasts are already high arm... What's the point?" But if youmake your beasts ARM20, then non-weaponmaster infantry have a tough time hurting your beasts. Example: One unit of Long Riders charging an ARM 20 Earthborn. They get six attacks, all of which will damage on average if they hit. If you had ARM 18, you would take more damage per attack - at most, 12 damage. The point is that it saves you two damage every time a beast gets hit would be damaged. It adds up. Preserving beast health is a good job for the KSB, because if they fail to kill a beast - even by a point, it can be hitting them at 100% efficiency next turn.

Third, It provides resistance to continuous effects, or a passive strength buff, or can make incorporeal units corporeal.

I mainly run mine for #1&#2, but #3 is definately worth it for the 1 point.