pCaine - Sons of the Tempest stuff...

[Templar Coyote]

Okay, I confess, I don't have the book yet (tonight!) but I was toying with the spoilers and came up with this pCaine list. It looks like something that, as long as you don't run up against the Menoth jack wall or stealthed battlegroups, you can take on most stuff you'll run into in an average game. Sure against the top tier stuff you'll struggle or auto-lose but... I like the idea for my thursday night/casual gaming..

pCaine -6
- Lancer +6
ATGM 5 (tier one, Gunmage units are one point less)
- UA 2
- Hunter 6
ATGM 5
- UA (free) (tier two, free UA above FA restrictions)
- Hunter 6
- Hunter 6
B13th 4

34 points
+ 1 to starting roll (tier 3)
Stealth on all ATGM models and caine turn one (tier 4)

The Hunters take care of heavy armor with rune shots, boosted damage etc while the Gunmages do both as well as moving models around. Caine distributes deadeye/snipe all around and looks to set up an assassination against a caster with T-strike knockdown goodness. The B13th does its thing, helping the Hunters if you run into a stealthed battlegroup/Nightmare type of situation. In my head I like the idea of the list; I just hope that I find out tonight it's valid :D

edited: for correct points and stuff

[Hypothoses]

Looks like fun. Let us know how it plays out, esp against a jack wall or Khador heavy armor list. MoW, etc.

[Templar Coyote]

I got two games in with the list last night and am over all impressed. Unfortunatly the games were against a newer player who's still getting the game figured out and is much younger than I. That said, he still had a decent list to attack my list with, and thanks to some crazy dice rolls, won the second game. His list was:

eIrusk
-Behemoth
-Decimator
Winter Guard (max)
-UA
-3x rockets
Kovnick Joe
Mortar
2x min Mechanic units

First game, he got some rocket shots off on Caine and hit with one while I was on a hill. Did some damage and that was about it. The Hunters brought down the Behemoth in two turns, with one of them rolling double ones on the to hit. I had a few amazing rolls, and in the first game he'd forgotten his mechanics. Gunmages lit his winterguard up but he made just about all of his tough rolls; Caine feated and he made no tough rolls. After that, my army mopped up and finished Irusk off.

Second game, we talked about his mistakes in the first and stuff he should do. We tied the roll, but the +1 to go first gave me the edge so I went first to get some use out of the Stealth on turn one. I found out Hunters can fire into the deployment zone first turn (though I needed to check his deployment zone it was the correct measurement; I think it was) and did some damage to both jacks. He moved out and crippled one of the hunters, but turn two my gunmages and B13 killed all of his winterguard. Caine put the Behemoth in check mode with a thunderstrike and that was that. His mechanics made a huge difference in this game, rolling away alot of damage my Hunters did to his jacks. I used thunderstrike rounds to line up the Decimator to slam it into two mechanics and his mortar, though it took Ryan's template to kill off the mortar. So at this point in the game, I think, hey, he's got four models left and I've only lost four. I tell him what to do and get gets his behemoth in position, needs a 16 to hit blurred Caine with Fire for Effect on. He rolls three 6's. Okay... whatever... he needs a 14 to kill me... rolls 16. Good game!

I'm actually glad that he did win as I was kinda unintentionally crushing him with massed hunter fire and all the gunmages + caine. I proved several of my theories in my head to myself, such as taking on high armor. It might have been a different game if he'd had Iron Fang Pikemen as the gunmages wont' just auto kill them. I'm not sure to be honest. something to test out. The Lancer was instrumental in lining up T-Strike angles and projecting Caine's board control. I'd like to fight a more seasoned opponenet and see how easily the list can be broken up and eaten :D

[FastEd]

I was just going over the tier lists again, and thinking about Caine. I came up with something VERY similar.


Lieutenant Allister Caine

Hunter

ATGM

UA

Hunter


ATGM

UA

Hunter


ATGM
Black 13th
GMCA


Going to try it in the next few days, and again on Wednesday. I suspect it will have similar effect. The difference is really that you favor a lancer for arcing thunder strike in the list, and I prefer to have another unit even without UA, plus a GMCA.

The main problem I see the list having would be going against Menoth spamming shooting denial, but that is why Steamroller lets you have two lists to choose from right? :)

As a side note, your tier 1 info is wrong. It's the unit, not UA, that gets cheaper, so you would have an extra point floating.


Happy Hunting!

[Templar Coyote]

Gah, thanks! Not sure why I made the UA cheaper. Back to 34 points and nothing to spend it on. Grumble! I just can't break down and buy a third unit as it is. It might just work out well enough at 34 that I'm not missing anything.

The Lancer did well in the second game where he was jonny on the spot to direct the slams. Without him, Caine would have had to venture closer to do anything and maybe got cut down; or maybe not. Hard to tell. Menoth Jackwalls will be an issue. I have the ability to move them around with the gunmages or thunderstrike them. Even with the Covenent, i'll move their tails around and/or trigger enliven and move them. B13th or one of the gunmage units might also try to flank and shoot choir members. *shrug* it is one of the weakness' of the list. We don't have a lot of menoth so I'm not super worried, but it is in the back of my mind

[FastEd]

I don't see the jack wall being a huge issue. Focus as much fire as you can, and remember that if the Hunters don't drop a target the Tempest unit can be ordered for a combined range attack at pow 17.

As for picking off key solos in the back, that's why I like having the GMCA in there. Gotta love phantom seeker.

[Gryphin]

Ya, I'm really loving this theme list myself as well. I went with 2 Defenders and 1 Lancer, rather than 3 Hunters... But after running the math, the damage spread is never more than 1 point difference (assuming I'm always boosting the damage with the Marshall bonus), and I can get 3 Pathfindering SPD6 RAT7 shots, rather than 2 normal SPD5 RAT6 shots... that's pretty kickass.

Gonna have to go buy one more Hunter now.

[Templar Coyote]

A local guy went with two Defenders (marshalled) and a single Hunter on Caine (and had a GMCA in there as well) and it looks like another list to try (except I don't have two defenders heh) Loose the slam direction of the lancer, but you still have a lot of shells heading downrange

[FastEd]

I spend 3 focus and cast thread necromancy.

Going to a 50 point steamroller tournament soon, been playing with a 50 point version of the T4 Caine list. It goes something like this:


Lieutenant Allister Caine

Hunter

ATGM

UA

Hunter
Hunter


ATGM

UA

Hunter
Hunter


ATGM
Black 13th
GMCA
GMCA


Simple bump up in points level. Added another hunter to either ATGM UA, taking full advantage of jack marshal. Another GMCA fills in 2 of the remaining 3 points, leaving me 1 point shy, with nothing to spend it on.

Thus far it has been quite successful, to the point that I'm not quite sure what to run for my other list. Probably something with a bit more staying power, that can function in two groups to grab objectives simultaneously.

When testing this out I thought I would have problems with AOE (and spray) spam, and while I did have more difficulty the benefits outweigh the vulnerability it seems. Lets just hope I don't go up against an eThagrosh power washer list.

[Fryerdan]

How does it fare against high speed or armor small based models? With little to no melee in this list it seems to be a smidge dicey. but i've never ran caine. Of course having anti incorporeal anti stealth and magic weapons with rediculous RAT is more than enough to overcome most anti-shooty abilities. I'd think menoth would be a very scary opponent against this. Especially the Feora's "no two people are not on fire".

[FastEd]

Small based models aren't that big of an issue. The hunters see a little less use, but with 'jack/beast points you are guaranteed to see some medium or large bases out there. Also, hunters can be used as a speed bump or blockers when dealing with a fast melee army. It isn't ideal, but it gives you another turn of shooting, and hunters have parry so they can move away if they survive.

Fast, plentiful, disposable melee (or some combination there of) is it's general weakness, for example Terminus with revenant crew. The trick to beating the list, and I hate to admit it can lose, is to run and engage as many ATGM as possible at the same time. If only a handful are engaged then the B13 can pick off any problems with black penny, but if the number gets above 4 or 5 then the list gets bogged down and forced to go on the defensive. The answer to that is, if possible, use the terrain to funnel your opponent towards your lines so you only have to deal with a few ranks of infantry at a time, and letting you take advantage of thunderbolt to keep your opponent from reaching your lines while maximizing the use of Arcane Inferno.

I tend to deploy towards one side of the board and play a strong side offence, attempting to chew my way through a flank rather then take on a front line since that usually ends in being swarmed by running models, along with the fact that even though the list can fire horrid amounts of bullets it generally still isn't enough to take on anything that wants to run straight at you.

One thing to watch for when playing towards your opponent's flank, however, is some armies are perfectly fine pushing the other direction, pulling back from your strong point, and swirling around the toilet bowl as they pick off stragglers as the list spreads out a bit.

Those are my thoughts on it. I've had a lot of fun playing it, partially because it's a rather ridiculous concept, but also because of the looks it puts on people's faces sometimes. That said, I've decided to not run it in the large Steamroller event I'll be playing in at the end of the month at our local con (KublaCon (http://www.kublacon.com)). While very fun, and I think competitive, it isn't purpose built for scenario play, and tends to work toward mid-game caster kill. Also, in Steamroller the only real variable that you know is the faction your opponent's two lists are from (not counting the scenario as a variable as they all work on the same basic principles), and looking at how this list matches up it isn't against specific factions, but rather against different list archetypes which makes it hard to choose which list to play against my opponent.