P Severius 50 Pts. Having trouble winning with this list. Help would be nice

[HeavensVenom]

POM 50 Pts. P Severius

Caster - P Severius

Warjack - Reckoner

Units

Choir (min)

Bastions (max)

Cinerators (max)

Exemplar Errant (max with UA)

Solo's/Characters/Engines/Mercs

P Eiryss

Rhupert

The Covenant of Menoth

2 Vassal Mechaniks

Vassal of Menoth

Vessel of Judgement

There's the list. Let me know what you think?

[wazatdingder]

What's the trouble?

[HeavensVenom]

I have a feeling that I might be using too much infantry, but if I am wrong then I guess it's the strategy play which loses me the game.

[Scrapjack]

That doesn't have to be a problem necessarily, but in you're list I imagine you're having difficulty destroying jacks. There tends to be a lot of them at 50pts, and your infantry probably can't handle them all (despite weapon master). That's why I would probably add at least 1 extra warjack to smack em back. You can do this (for example) by ditching cinerators and or/the vessel of judgement and mechaniks and adding the good old avatar. That way your FOC won't be affected. Good luck

PS: also, using this many infantry might mean they get in each others way a lot and gives you to many targets for Rhupert/def ward. This could lead to strategic errors...

[drachenfels]

honestly i think it is the single heavy jack... you only have 1 model that can easilly bang out damage on high armor models. While the Vessel can boost, it isnt meant for taking out heavy things, and even the weaponmasters you have arent guaranteed to take things out, and can get bogged down by infantry.

i would recommend the following:

System: Warmachine
Faction: Protectorate of Menoth
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Grand Scrutator Severius (*6pts)
* Crusader (6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Daughters of the Flame (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard (4pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

so... for starters, Vessel of judgement - gone. big bulky and with the infantry its anti infantry powers arent needed. (it is also fairly easy to take out if the enemy begins to target it)

second - a second heavy into the list. a melee specialist. but just something simple. just a nice classic crusader. with buffs from the choir and some sofuc he is all that should be needed to get the job done.

third - cinerators- out - base speed slow, lack of reach, and only a single attack each... not optimal, and with their added weapon ability being anti infantry, again not needed.

forth - IN - Rhoven and his buddies. Rhovens sight tossed onto the reckoner gives it amazing capabilities to assault shot solos off the field. Add a couple focus for boosts if ya feel it needs it, then add in the choir's battle hymn and he should be able to remove specific targets.

fifth - in Errant Seneschal - Hunter = GOOD, can also hit solos from surprising distance with Assault.

sixth - out come the pair of mechanics, in comes a second normal vassal - one for ancilary attack on the reckoner (after it assaults) and a second to enliven the crusader.

Seventh - IN - Daughters. a quick rapid strike unit that can threaten any living model regardless of how high it's armor is, and with their stats can be a nussance to remove with direct attacks.

After that the rest is the same... Your origional list was fairly bulky, but relativly slow, and without any tricks or anything special to it. These modifications add some needed tricks so the game isnt as straight forward, and hopefully more squewed to your side, and should create a more ballanced list (trading some hit boxes for more speed, and infantry clearing ability for straight up hitting power)

Just remember to play to the strengths, if there is a forest on the table, exploit it with hunter, use the reckoner and Seneschal to snipe off key solos and officers early.

[HeavensVenom]

Scrapjack - That's true and all but I actually didn't have problem with killing jacks/beasts but the Def Ward and Rhuperts Heroic Call was annoying once my enough of my Errants died to care. There is nothing wrong with putting in Avatar though. Also to note that I put in the Vessel of Judgment because I just got it/built it. Thanks for the suggestions

[HeavensVenom]

drachenfels - Thanks for the suggestions. I Visgoth and his buddies would be a great add for the reckoner. Also I have never thought about using the seneschal for assaulting solos. I always kept him back whenever I played him because I wanted hunter all the time. Daughters for me are hard to use. They are to easy to kill for the way I play them. Even with Def Ward and Dirge of Mist I find a lot of units/solos killing the girls easily. However, I will try again and the crusader I always thought was too slow but the Battle of the choir and Eye of Menoth makes the Crusader just that much more beastly. Thanks for the help guys!

[tommy2tone]

I would add BoV. It doesn't look like your spending a lot of focus on jacks so you could spend it on spells. His spell list is pretty good not to mention rhoven could use menoths sight on sev to target stealth. Also if you have problems with heavy armor just add aiyana and holt. Play them in the back and use them only when needed. P+S 15 bastions can take down heavies.

[itchmonkey]

Looks like you need more warjacks. That list is going to struggle against jacks/beasts heavy lists. Plus you're not utilising the full potential of the Choir with one jack.

[loramer]

Are you having any problems in particular using the list as it was? Is there a particular faction that is giving you fits? Let us know and we might be better suited to tweaking the original list.

[HeavensVenom]

lormer - Cygnar with E Stryker and Legion with P Vale. I destroy most of the army against Cygnar with E Styker I am just having a hard time with assassinating E Stryker since my friend doesn't play scenario. E Strykers defense is just too high and is always too far for the reckoner to even assault charge. With the legion with P Vale I have trouble killing all the beast which makes sense with the one reckoner trying to do work.
Here's the new list.

P - Sevvy

Reckoner
Avatar
(min) Choir
Daughters
(max) Errants with UA
Gravus
Nicia
Mechanik
Vassal of Menoth
Vessel of judgement

[Bogues]

Like second list a lot better. Nicia is a monster, especially with Sevy. A little confused by the inclusion of Gravus though...he rocks in Exemplar themed forces but with only the Errants he is not going to be that effective.
I would probably drop him for either a couple Mercs like A&H, Rhupert and Eyriss or Rhoven and Wracks.

[HeavensVenom]

Yea, I was thinking about Rhoven and his guards for cases like stealth and such so the reckoner can shoot away. A&H is cool just don't have the models yet nor Rhoven but I am getting Rhoven first. The Gravus idea was because of a second list and having the covenant in some other list for tournys. Thinking about putting some more weapon masters like Vilmon and a paladin for the door of judgement purpose and just because they are really good.

[Cursed]

Where is your BoV?
I wouldnt play pSevvy without BoV.

[Craaag]

Yes of all the jacks to have with Severious BOV should be the first. A2A at POW 13 is just too good.

My suggestion at the second list. Change Avatar to a Templar +3 pts then Drop Gravus total of +8 pts. Leaves 1 point left over after BOV.

Then with that extra point, I'd get rid of Nicia and add in Rhoven and Co.

Or I'd be taking a long hard look at the Vessel. Is it just for fun games or Steamroller tournaments? For fun games I'd leave it in but for the latter I'd likely use it's points to get in BOV.