For Those Who Have Playtested Ghetorix....

[Neutralyze]

He's not a Stalker replacement, he's a Feral replacement. He's the new heavy hitter in Circle and he can take it on the chin to boot.

He also has a very interesting late game play where you heal him to full effect (1 or 2 boxes, depending on how damaged he is) and then warp for snacking and trample over a bunch of infantry to recoup the rest of his health (and screw over eGaspy's feat)

Double post.

[Bakemono]

I just call him our Armor Specialist and leave it at that. Aside from the odd, effective trample, he isn't good for anything else.

[AmonadRodrigues]

I just call him our Armor Specialist and leave it at that. Aside from the odd, effective trample, he isn't good for anything else.

MAT 7 POW 19 plus reach?

[Neutralyze]

I just call him our Armor Specialist and leave it at that. Aside from the odd, effective trample, he isn't good for anything else.

He's trolling. Just ignore him

[Mattho2k3]

Def 14, Arm 17+unyealding is pretty decent at tanking. Even better with someone who can boost armor even more.

[skillt]

He's trolling. Just ignore him

Correct answer!

[Bakemono]

He's trolling. Just ignore him

Hardly. I bought the Ghetorix the moment it came out precisely because I wanted a model with better armor-cracking ability. I'm just pragmatic about what the model does. It cracks high armor targets. It tramples infantry very well. I've yet to find anything else it does well because that is clearly what it was designed to do.

[Ap0th]

I'm just happy to have snacking in my back pocket against Saeryn and pThags. RFP is great against those casters and I've put it to great use with my trolls.

[kaneblaise]

It cracks high armor targets. It tramples infantry very well.

What more would anyone want from a heavy? Ghetorix clearly isn't an infantry sweeper, he has no special abilities that would lend him to that. That leaves big targets. Is someone claiming Ghetorix does something besides that? *is confused*

I still personally think he's lacking a little extra something to make him interesting to me. I like to be tricky, that's why I got into Circle. This guy is very straight forward (he has a few little quirks, but they are bleh. If Hyper Aggresive and Ornery could trigger one after the other, I would love him).

[ChaosE]

Correct answer!

He's over in the other thread hating on the fulcrum as well. I think it's time for a new faction Bakemono. Circle just doesn't seem to be for you.

[Bakemono]

He's over in the other thread hating on the fulcrum as well. I think it's time for a new faction Bakemono. Circle just doesn't seem to be for you.

Faction suites me fine. I don't like the fulcrum although I would hardly say giving it low marks is "hating." I like the Ghetorix just fine. I'm just pragmatic. If/when someone finds another use for the Ghetorix besides cracking armor, I'll be glad to hear it. Right now that is what I put him in for.

[SageofLodoss]

I'm just happy to have snacking in my back pocket against Saeryn and pThags. RFP is great against those casters and I've put it to great use with my trolls.

Just FYI, Respawn triggers on Disabled. Snacking triggers on either boxed or destroyed, IIRC. You can't get around Saeryn's respawn with RFP unless you use Takedown or something with similar wording (that triggers on Disabled).

[eliassmith27]

Ghetorix has 2 things he does well, He smashes heavies and he lives to smash them again.

I'm not saying that's all he does, it's just what he's great at. Snacking is great for preventing reeving, soul/corpse gathering, and healing. Hyper aggression is a good shooting deterrent. but all his abilities build on his ability to survive and his ability to break heavy armored beasts and jacks.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Ghetorix has 2 things he does well, He smashes heavies and he lives to smash them again.

I'm not saying that's all he does, it's just what he's great at. Snacking is great for preventing reeving, soul/corpse gathering, and healing. Hyper aggression is a good shooting deterrent. but all his abilities build on his ability to survive and his ability to break heavy armored beasts and jacks.

I agree, its pretty closed minded to say he just does one thing. When you actually play him its easier to see he has more to offer, survivability is a trait we need as much as heavy armour cracking and he has that too.
RFP, Terror and his accuracy, even the animus all offer options and these become more obvious when you play him, theory does indeed suggest he's just for cracking ARM but playing him shows he has a bit more.

Still... he fair murders high ARM like a champion

[eliassmith27]

Love him with eBaldur! ARM 22 DEF 14 is mean,(ARM 20 at range) and with the ability to add a wall for cover or +2 DEF vs melee, all with steady and no move/place. I love it!

[Bakemono]

The best I've gotten him up to in my testing (proxy with Winter Argus) has been DEF-18 and ARM-21. I was running him with Epic Kaya. He had Forced Evolution on him as well as the the Winter Argus Animus. He moved forward and engaged the Deathjack from partially behind an obstruction to get +2 to his Defense. I also moved up a Gallows Grove to prevent the Deathjack from being able to move around to take that DEF away from me on my turn.

[Bakemono]

I agree, its pretty closed minded to say he just does one thing.
Still... he fair murders high ARM like a champion

I am closed minded in this regard. I take models for what they do best and tend to discount the things which are unreliable. Consistency is king with me. Thus, if the other perks go off now and then... great. I don't count on them, however, as I like to minimize my gambles as much as possible. To me Ghetorix is a great model because he fills a niche that we needed, desperately. I don't hate Ghetorix. I wouldn't have bought him if that were the case. I just use him for what we appear to agree on... the fact that he murders high ARM like a champion. If/when something else crops up, I'll comment on that too.

[PG_LEJKaya]

The best I've gotten him up to in my testing (proxy with Winter Argus) has been DEF-18 and ARM-21. I was running him with Epic Kaya. He had Forced Evolution on him as well as the the Winter Argus Animus. He moved forward and engaged the Deathjack from partially behind an obstruction to get +2 to his Defense. I also moved up a Gallows Grove to prevent the Deathjack from being able to move around to take that DEF away from me on my turn.

Neither you nor your opponent noticed the Winter Argus animus was RNG: Self?

[SageofLodoss]

The best I've gotten him up to in my testing (proxy with Winter Argus) has been DEF-18 and ARM-21. I was running him with Epic Kaya. He had Forced Evolution on him as well as the the Winter Argus Animus. He moved forward and engaged the Deathjack from partially behind an obstruction to get +2 to his Defense. I also moved up a Gallows Grove to prevent the Deathjack from being able to move around to take that DEF away from me on my turn.

Winter Argus Animus is self only, so it and the caster.

A Range 6 anyone +2 Armor animus in Circle would practically be auto-include.

[Bakemono]

Nope. I hadn't noticed it because I got the info second hand and was doing it in a proxy game. Too bad though.

[VagrantPoet]

Yup. It's what kills the winter argus.

[Patuljak]

Honestly, +2ARM on anything would be broken in our faction. We're never going to get it. That said, the Winter Argus is still meh.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Honestly, +2ARM on anything would be broken in our faction. We're never going to get it. That said, the Winter Argus is still meh.

I'm not convinced this is true.
Also, if it couldn't be RNG 6" then it should have been 1 fury cost.

[Patuljak]

Why aren't you convinced this is true? DEF 14 ARM 19/20 Warpwolves and ARM 20/21 constructs, for a mere cost of 2 Fury, would be insane. Why is eBaldur good? He gives out +3ARM. That's only 1 more than the animus...

Edit: off-topic I know, sorry.

[PG_LEJKaya]

• Our faction all have low ARM other than Megalith and the Guardian.
• Legion has it and have similar (Better) defensive stats on their beasts.
• "Only" 2 fury... well what warlock is going to be able to spam it? The beast itself can do it only once and unlike, say the shredder with its similar (Better) defensive animus or the Bull snapper, a 5 point light isn't a good prospect to take 5 of to cast loads of them.

I may be wrong but if it were RNG: 6" I think it'd be fine.

[Patuljak]

Our faction having low ARM is what makes us balanced IMO. We are designed as hit and run and we're damn good at it, but catch us or force us into a bad decision and we crumble like old cookies (obviously not counting Baldurs). Legion gets stuck in and stays there, they can't really disengage and pick around the edges with their melee threats, they have shooting for that. Spiny Growth is for occasions where they can't get the alpha strike or when the alpha strike isn't devastating enough so they can try and grind out a win, as their whole faction is balanced around the Alpha. We are similar in our dependancy on it, but with the abundancy of Sprints, reforms, Warpaths, yoyos and other hit and run shenanigans we are balanced differently. Killing something with a Stalker and Sprinting to get out of most retaliation, then putting +2ARM on it would be bonkers, as ARM 19 as opposed to ARM 17 is a big difference, especially for infantry and shooting - we can usually avoid retaliation from obvious smashy big heavies but it's sometimes impossible to cover all papercuts.

Dunno, having access to Spiny Growth(ish) would mitigate a large part of our weakness, which is squishiness, attrition. Legion is different, they have less movement shenanigans, so they need it. And I think it's obvious enough why Gators got it.

[PG_LEJKaya]

We would have less of it though and Legion with some casters has more hit & run than circle and easily as many movement shennanigens (Both Vayls) they also hit much, much harder and generally have longer threat ranges (Obvious exceptions again).

I would prefer tenacity, its a more circle-esque buff but SG would be fine TBH.

[Patuljak]

While I agree wih you, you're missing that they have very little in way of control and denial. If they can't dictate the pace they're kinda screwed, and in those cases they really need their enhanced survivability to dish out hurt. We are less likely to get outdenied/outcontrolled, and if we do we're probably going to lose. If we had a cheap way to better our chances if we lose out on what our whole game is...

Tenacity would be ridiculous by the way, DEF15 on Wolves is bonkers. It just puts them out of hit-on-average realm.

Anyway, it seems we can agree to disagree. We're getting really off-topic here.

[Bradigus]

I can see Ornery being useful on eKrueger... If the only thing that can get to him is a warjack, he can disrupt it and be sure that it can't kill him. Not that its a good idea, but it could be useful in a pinch.

[Vicomte Athos]

Faction suites me fine. I don't like the fulcrum although I would hardly say giving it low marks is "hating." I like the Ghetorix just fine. I'm just pragmatic. If/when someone finds another use for the Ghetorix besides cracking armor, I'll be glad to hear it. Right now that is what I put him in for.

These are the big boards. If you aren't singing PP praises and nominating them for sainthood then you are obviously an evil hater that must burn. There is no room for pragmatism or critical analysis.

[DontStop]

I'm not convinced this is true.
Also, if it couldn't be RNG 6" then it should have been 1 fury cost.

I think EBaldur killed
Circles chance at a +2 ARM buff outside of a caster or unit.

[skillt]

These are the big boards. If you aren't singing PP praises and nominating them for sainthood then you are obviously an evil hater that must burn. There is no room for pragmatism or critical analysis.

The trolls are roaming in this thread... lol

[Blaque]

These are the big boards. If you aren't singing PP praises and nominating them for sainthood then you are obviously an evil hater that must burn. There is no room for pragmatism or critical analysis.

I usually don't like feeding trolls, but I think it should be noted that the Circle forum is generally unified enough in hate and criticism to one-another, and the idea that simply attacking people by saying they are incapable of reasoned arguments has a bit of calling the kettle black to it.

Bakemono has, in his posts of late, been as the community feels, wrong. This isn't helped by the fact that he seems to blatently ignore factors (in this case, Ghetorix's survivability compared to other faction models), is flat-out wrong on others (the Winter Argus here, claiming Force Bolts trigger Warpath and other fun untruths), and other, related issues. And he does it in a way that sounds annoyingly authoritative, citing his own experience in ways which seem to run counter to what others see.

The sheer volume of this, the tone in its presentation, and the somewhat blatent contradiction with other's play experiences have caused some of us to be come dismissive of his posts. He has his way of playing Circle, but it seems obtuse, based on poor rule interpretations, or some weird, warped meta nothing like what I have seen in playing WM/H in a few states now.

I admit, simply calling him a troll and such is annoying. Saying that his opinion is valid, however, on dint of us not being more critical odd. We may not be the general pile of beached whales Cygnar has been of late, I don't think LEJ, skillt, myself or others in here or other threads can be really called PP worshippers. Countering allegations of being a troll by simply calling people a bunch of fanboys is not really do much but add you to the pile of no-point-to-argue-withs.

And stuff.

[skillt]

I usually don't like feeding trolls, but I think it should be noted that the Circle forum is generally unified enough in hate and criticism to one-another, and the idea that simply attacking people by saying they are incapable of reasoned arguments has a bit of calling the kettle black to it.

Bakemono has, in his posts of late, been as the community feels, wrong. This isn't helped by the fact that he seems to blatently ignore factors (in this case, Ghetorix's survivability compared to other faction models), is flat-out wrong on others (the Winter Argus here, claiming Force Bolts trigger Warpath and other fun untruths), and other, related issues. And he does it in a way that sounds annoyingly authoritative, citing his own experience in ways which seem to run counter to what others see.

The sheer volume of this, the tone in its presentation, and the somewhat blatent contradiction with other's play experiences have caused some of us to be come dismissive of his posts. He has his way of playing Circle, but it seems obtuse, based on poor rule interpretations, or some weird, warped meta nothing like what I have seen in playing WM/H in a few states now.

I admit, simply calling him a troll and such is annoying. Saying that his opinion is valid, however, on dint of us not being more critical odd. We may not be the general pile of beached whales Cygnar has been of late, I don't think LEJ, skillt, myself or others in here or other threads can be really called PP worshippers. Countering allegations of being a troll by simply calling people a bunch of fanboys is not really do much but add you to the pile of no-point-to-argue-withs.

And stuff.

100% agreed.

[honorandglory]

i found a small use for his Animus. charged Ghetorix in killed something and had Fury left over to animus Grayle. grayle charged and took their caster down to 3 boxes. Caster swinges does 12 to Grayle who then Retaliatory struck and killed him. Other than that, he is what my list has been missing,something that can take more than a couple hits in a turn and survive. and then do some pretty massive damage in return.

[skillt]

Animus is ranged SELF. Meaning Grayle would have to cast it, not Ghetorix. =/

Will

[kaneblaise]

Animus is ranged SELF. Meaning Grayle would have to cast it, not Ghetorix. =/

Will

I think we missed an errata where PP turned all Self animi into range 6.

edit: That was sarcasm for the literal-ists out there.

[honorandglory]

Damn, I cheated him, still would work though in theory. Still, not the best animus. but he is awesome a busting faces.

[blackbeardfreelance]

I think we missed an errata where PP turned all Self animi into range 6.

edit: That was sarcasm for the literal-ists out there.

Man, I really wish they would. Between the new beasts in Domination and all of the wolds, my druid wilder feels a bit under-utilized.

[niceas]

Man, I really wish they would. Between the new beasts in Domination and all of the wolds, my druid wilder feels a bit under-utilized.

Yeah - right now my Wilder really only casts Primal and Lightning Strike. Don't get me wrong - those are fantastic things to cast for free, but it really doesn't feel like there are a lot of other options.