Celestial Fulcrum Successes

[PG_cheddercaveman]

I have a Celestial Fulcrum and I haven't played it quite as much yet as I would like to. Anyone finding it particularly successful when paired up with any certain casters? I've been playing Baldur1, Morvahna and likely Cassius soon myself so any combinations with those casters that have been successful I'd definitely love to hear about, but even beyond that I'm wondering now that its not just theory what people's experiences have been.

[Bakemono]

My experiences with it have been 100% bad with every Warlock I did a proxy with. It decided me that I won't be buying one unless it shows up dirt cheap on Ebay, and only then just so I can say I have all the Circle models.

[Orbis Orboros]

I like it alright @ 50 pts or higher only. Expect it to die quickly; its two roles are to kill infantry and die in place of other models (people instinctively gun for the Huge Base models first).

Of the casters I've played it with, I prefer it with eBaldur the most. The +3 ARM is gold to make it last a decent amount of time.

[ChaosE]

I find it works quite well with Mohsar. With the fulcrum and his pillars you can block line of sight to your entire force, or you can use the pillars to block LoS the fulcrum. I think that might be the ONLY way anyone has access to block a battle engine, which is quite powerful.
The thing has serious damage potential, which is unusual for a circle piece, but its also the most fragile. Don't forget your can heal it with the stones though. This is key, and offsets the low ARM and damage boxes.

I'd also advise saving the fury it generates and using it very carefully. only leach from it if its about to max out. It's very useful for freezing before setting up a charge.

Also, dont forget that you can give your druids immunity to lightning, fire and frost...opens up some interesting possibilities.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Its pretty awesome. Its one of the best BEs around, but more importantly it offers circle things we don't otherwise have.
Its offensive ability is basically a bit more than you expect for 9 points. The utility is small, just a cloud and blocking LOS but generating boosts is what BEs need, this is why the Menoth engine is so good.

Turn 2 when it gets in range (In my lists usually by charging a blackclad for the extra 3") it has 2 boosts available. This means it can do decent damage to beasts or jacks or can boost blast damage when sniping a solo (Eiryss and the like are perfect targets for the fire shot and the spray) but really infantry is the target you want. Now Circle can deal with infantry but a totally self sufficient model that can do so much and none of it spells is pretty much unique in Circle. Its that its ranged that makes it so powerful.

Finally, its really funny vs Legion, Legion as a faction are a bad match for circle and this just laughs at a hell of a lot of their ranged, if you can keep it out of melee its going to win games.

[Ruan]

I very recently picked one up, as my evil, evil LGS owner got one in knowing that if I saw it, I'd probably pick it up. I need to get more game time in with it though, before I can actually give an opinion on it.

[PG_LEJKaya]

I recently managed to pick up the second one so that will be my next test after I'm done with Ghetorix.

[Orbis Orboros]

Two of them?! How many points do you have to field before that's realistic? I fund it hard to field one at 50... 100 pts then?

I'm not sure I'd field two until 150, honestly.

[Blaque]

Its pretty awesome. Its one of the best BEs around, but more importantly it offers circle things we don't otherwise have.
Its offensive ability is basically a bit more than you expect for 9 points. The utility is small, just a cloud and blocking LOS but generating boosts is what BEs need, this is why the Menoth engine is so good.

Turn 2 when it gets in range (In my lists usually by charging a blackclad for the extra 3") it has 2 boosts available. This means it can do decent damage to beasts or jacks or can boost blast damage when sniping a solo (Eiryss and the like are perfect targets for the fire shot and the spray) but really infantry is the target you want. Now Circle can deal with infantry but a totally self sufficient model that can do so much and none of it spells is pretty much unique in Circle. Its that its ranged that makes it so powerful.

Finally, its really funny vs Legion, Legion as a faction are a bad match for circle and this just laughs at a hell of a lot of their ranged, if you can keep it out of melee its going to win games.

This has been my experience as well. Folks seem to think of it as a long-ranged gun platfrom like the other BEs that look like it and have learned the hard way that it butchers infantry that gets too close (that being wihtin 13" of it, which is actually easier said then done to avoid). It is self-sufficient, and actually end sup boosting a good amount of important targets. I have been able to use it to take-out some pretty threatening things. It might die, but it will hopefully bring down so much along the wya that it is worth it.

It especially synergizes with Cassius, Mohsar, and Baldur2, I find. Cassius and Mohsar is mainly through Curse of Shadows. This results in it being almost cruel to some tougher htings, as suddenly the 15/14/12 on the guns become 17/16/14 and the Fire it causes with the AOE is POW 14 to any survivors. It also allows it ot shuffle around things nad do some hurt. Baldur, by contrast, makes it tough as hell, and Rock Wall and other useful features about actually do protect it somewhat, since you can make it so that non0Reach infantry can't really get many bodies on it, which combined with Roots and Shifting Stones make it quite durable.

Something I also find is that it is fragile, but doesn't mean it is tissue paper. Most things that can deal with it in one turn have to deal with warjacks. I have seen it taken down by say, cavalry and some weaponmasters, but since it has template-based guns, it can hang back a bit, and this means unless it's super-fast, things actually can't get a lot on it if you place it right. And as noted, SHifting Stones help it a

It is indeed also quite nice against Legion. I have seen, for instance, Kallus lists stragith-up stall on the thing as it annihlates his infantry, and then it simply eat his guns nad face-tank at ARM 21. It's quite solid, for me.

And stuff.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Two of them?! How many points do you have to field before that's realistic? I fund it hard to field one at 50... 100 pts then?

I'm not sure I'd field two until 150, honestly.

I don't imagine it would be optimal, but they look awesome and you never know until you try

Oh, I should add (Depending on how you locally play the shield guard ruling) a Wold Watcher can keep the thing alive for an extra turn, especially in Baldur2.

[VaulSC]

Played over ten games with it, I prefer it with Mohsar. If you're picking away at them and using pillars, or long distance sands of fate attacks, the game is stretching out a bit. The Fulcrum is better over a period of time, because you're building up fury to spend with it. Cos is the obvious winner with it but you can also use it to hide Mohsar after he's spent 8 fury in a turn, which you quite often want to do.

I think it's ok with eBaldur as well, not just for the ARM buff but because there isn't much else in his list that clears infantry. Crevasse really doesn't do it for me when it's at such a low FURY attack, even the geomancers can't afford to make the multiple boosts that they would otherwise not need to do with Mohsar. But the fulcrum really sticks around with that armour and can pump out some solid shooting each turn - plus there's nothing stopping you using your low DEF wolds as anchors for the fire template and electroleap.

[PG_Crump]

I've playtested it with most of our casters now and the best casters to take it with are those that can protect it. In my trials the two casters I have had most success with it are Kaya1 and Krueger2. Kaya can stealth it so it can't just be blown of the table from redeemer rockets and the like, the list I play with her also hinders the enemy approach to it with Undergrowth and spirit fang allowing for it to get a few rounds of shooting before it gets engaged. Krueger provides the same protection, perhaps a little bit better. Stormwall will prevent a lot of bullets from reaching your fulcrum and he provides essentially a free round of shooting with his feat.

My only complaint about it is that I wish the Fire Gun was range 10 or 12. I would gladly have the spray be spray 8 if the fire gun was range 10/12.

[SillySod]

Two of them?! How many points do you have to field before that's realistic? I fund it hard to field one at 50... 100 pts then?

I'm not sure I'd field two until 150, honestly.

Try it in 35 points.... eBaldur, Megalith, Ghetorix, Celestial Fulcrum, Celestial Fulcrum

Trust me, its suprisingly evil. Fulcrums are a great combo with eBaldur for all kinds of reasons. Whats most suprised me is how many random assassinations his theme force fulcrum has picked up.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Try it in 35 points.... eBaldur, Megalith, Ghetorix, Celestial Fulcrum, Celestial Fulcrum

Trust me, its suprisingly evil. Fulcrums are a great combo with eBaldur for all kinds of reasons. Whats most suprised me is how many random assassinations his theme force fulcrum has picked up.

Hah! I'm so doing this.

Fulcrums are one of those great models where the theory and practice just aren't the same. We all saw it and thought "Meh" but nobody who really has played it a lot can fail to be impressed. Its not broken for its cost, but it does a job and fills a large gap in circles arsenal.

[PG_cheddercaveman]

I am definitely curious to see how this will play out

[eliassmith27]

If I had a secound fulcrum I'd run that list.

[Warcaster Feiss]

If I can get it painted, I'm hoping to wheel mine out this weekend in a 35-pt tournament!

Granted, it's quite a niche I'm taking it in, I needed a list that can be a solid pairing with Baldur1, so want the list to be able to handle Kreoss1, Harbinger, Saeryn and Vayl2 (being mainly Purification based, and Saeryn's anti-melee Feat), and I think with Krueger2, the Fulcrum has a solid place in the list. With only 2 'beasts, it's a Fury reserve in a pinch, but more importantly with Immunity Fire, it can quite happily march into Legion and Menoth gunlines without taking much of any damage. It's also a fairly durable Huge base for Krueger to sit behind to get his Feat and Storm Wall further up the field.

In return Krueger2 can keep the Fulcrum moving up the field by pushing enemy models back with Telekinesis and his Feat. I'm hoping this can only be a good thing as my games with it so far have found it gummed up by well spread out infantry, which was quite depressing

If I get it finished, will report after this weekend

[Walter]

I'll echo all the comments in favor of the Fulcrum. I've used it in serious 50 point lists that I've played against strong opponents and taken to tourneys, and its done fine. I've used a pair in Unbound games, and they rock.

I'd like to make a point that has been sort of glossed over. Putting it in a list adds immeasurably to your assassination potential. Boost and go for the crit on their caster with the freeze ray. With a charge the range is massive. If it works you generally win, whether it's because druids can now drag him to his death, or trackers are all hitting despite the wall he was hiding behind, or what not.

Mohsar + Pureblood can kill some casters due to two double boosted (boost hit boost damage) sprays and a double boosted crevasse spell. Add in a Fulcrum starting things off and the range of people you can try it on extends mightily.

I know the main use is infantry clearing, and it's great at that. But I've tried off a few hail mary assassinations with it when I was losing, and it's performed.

[Phatheadaf]

I'm curious to see it with Cassius. Im going to swap out the Pureblood in my list currently for the BE. It's got the magic weapons I like to have, and can clear infantry, which is what I use the PB Spray for. I will miss the wraith bane, but the huge LOS blocking could be well worth the trade allowing me to get the tree a bit closer, and be a lot safer. Plus in a pinch I bet there is some shenanigans to be had w/ Hellmouth and COS w/ this 5" base.

Can't wait...


A.

[Ruan]

Tried it out today with Mohsar. Essentially I ended up using fury for:

1) Boosting spray to Crit Freeze against anything I was going to really kill
2) Boosting lightning shot to take out pesky solos/ua's

Between it and Mohsar, they accounted for an entire unit of Errants and Flame Cleansers, with Mohsar using a Gallows Grove that lurked around it do Crevasse it out of melee when necessary, plus the occasional Pillar to block LoS.

Going to try it with Cassius next.

Also... phew, that thing's... interesting to put together. Not hard, but definitely time consuming. Still though, I pretty much have everything pinned/green-stuffed/magnetized that needs to be now, so once I paint it I could actually completely disassemble it if needed for storage purposes.

[PG_Valkine]

This thread is now really making me want to buy a Celestial Fulcrum but I just bought (and I'm almost finished painting) a War Wagon. I suppose I have a big purchase coming up soon-ish...Hrm...

[JoeGuardsman]

I've only chosen to use it with eBaldur. I needed an AoE to round out the list and some non-fury related shooting has helped, before it was two wold-wyrds. It also means I have one fewer model to need Roots for.

It always seems to do something different in a game though:

1: This game it died early. Killed 2 battle mages before the opponent decided to trade a Phoenix to kill it. Didn't particularly bother me and I won.
2: The cloud effect I learned is awesome combined with rockwall and Megalith's animus and charge lanes can be shut down viciously. Also helped by putting damage on some jacks and making some infantry kills. Killed a choir member with electro leap and killing choir is always good.
3: Protectorate without the book made an enlivened jack stationary and found that the Zealot mini-feat can be managed by setting them on fire.
4: Was able to put a shot onto a caster and ate up a transfer which has been the most direct contribution to winning so far.
5: Just picked off some troopers, tough made it's returns diminish. But it did lay down a great cloud for me to move some beasts behind and deny charge lanes.

I can't see myself using it in anything other than eBaldur it is too easy to kill with anyone else and it's forced to be upfield to do anything. But I'm going to run it in a tournament soon, we'll see.

[eliassmith27]

I can't see myself using it in anything other than eBaldur it is too easy to kill with anyone else and it's forced to be upfield to do anything. But I'm going to run it in a tournament soon, we'll see.

pKaya likes it too. Stealth give it table time.

[ringsnake]

I've seen it crash hard against Legion twice. The witch on the hellion turned into a giant paper weight with Wind Ravager.

[Rez]

Im a big fan of the Fulcrum. Ive mainly used it with Mohsar, eKrueger and eBaldur and it has been great. Storm Wall and TK really helps protect it and set it up for some accurate shots, hard hitting shots. eKruegs always like infantry clearing, and the feat gives you an extra turn of shooting which is huge. Mohsar makes it do some serious damage with Curse, and its also really handy to hide behind. eBaldur definitely needs the infantry clearing it provides, and in turn him making it arm 21 is serious business. Rock Wall to keep non-reach WMs away is also pretty handy.

I havent tried it with that many other locks, only one I didnt like it with was Cassius. The feat is actually pretty damn good in practice, but the Fulcrum gives your opponent something they can charge. So all those pathfinder but non-Hunter/ES models can be effective on the feat turn, which is obviously not ideal.

[rpavers]

I've used it several games now with ebaldur, enjoy it lots. Just get annoyed when it gets locked down by reach infantry heh.

[PG_bushman101]

All of my experiences with the Fulcrum have been positive. I've lost games with it, but never lost because of it.
The 3 different ranged attacks add versitility on the board. But what really makes the Fulcrum good is that it makes it's own Fury. It means you won't have to babysit the thing and you can Leach from it in a pinch.
I scored some wins with my worst casters using the Fulcrum (Cassius and eKrueger), and while that doesn't speak of how good/bad the Fulcrum is, I will say it has changed how I play these casters.

[Ruan]

Fair warning... that thing requires painting. So. much. painting. When you're a person like me, who feels the need to go through and paint every individual rune... and then drybrush a new color for the orb outside of the runes... and then brighten the runes further...

Granted, my Fulcrum is looking pretty cool. But at the same time, I'm well over 24 hours working on this thing, and I still don't have the base or the druids anything more than basecoated.

[PG_prkl]

Fair warning... that thing requires painting. So. much. painting. When you're a person like me, who feels the need to go through and paint every individual rune... and then drybrush a new color for the orb outside of the runes... and then brighten the runes further...

Granted, my Fulcrum is looking pretty cool. But at the same time, I'm well over 24 hours working on this thing, and I still don't have the base or the druids anything more than basecoated.

Pics or didn't happen.

[Ruan]

Oh, don't worry - I'll post pics when it's done and painted. I've put too much work into the darn thing to not do so. Still got a ways to go yet...

Still though, I will note this: for those wanting to do a simple something extra with their Fulcrum, it's a pretty easy conversion to magnetize the outer 'moons' off of the big one so you can spin them around a little bit.

For a verbal description of what it currently looks like:

Main orb: Dark green with blue runes. I tried a lighter green color with dark blue, but instead ended up drybrushing a dark green and brightened all the runes.
Orb one: Metallic gold with red runes - for fire. Originally it was a tan color, but a friend of mine suggested using a more goldish color - actually really worked out well.
Orb two: Gunmetal with blue runes - for lightning. Once again, was a more stone grey at first, but when I converted to gold with one, it seemed natural to switch to a more solid metal color on the other two moons as well.
Orb three: Silver with cyan runes - for ice. Originally was blue with cyan runes - may yet change things around with that one.
Arcs: Primed white, washed black, runes in green, ended up being too light so I drybrushed the outer parts to a darker grey that looks much better - may redo the runes again, as they're not quite as bright now due to the drybrushing.
Stone base is currently a dark grey drybrushed with lighter grey... but at the same time, I'm probably going to try a black wash back over it to see how that does, as it needs darkened.
Druids currently have dark green cloaks and... that's pretty much it. They've had the least work done on them.

Things left to do:

May tinker with the ice orb a bit more. Debating making the cyan more white.
Gem effect on all the main orbs - I know how to do it in theory, but it's going to take some tinkering to actually put it into practice.
The base stones need a lot of work yet... I'm still debating adding additional effects to the stones, such as snow.
The druids need a lot of work yet, since only their cloaks have been base-coated.
May redo the green runes on the arcs, as they've dulled from the aforementioned drybrushing.

Gah. Insane detail, but the end result looks so good...

[Orbis Orboros]

Fair warning... that thing requires painting. So. much. painting. When you're a person like me, who feels the need to go through and paint every individual rune...

...Granted, my Fulcrum is looking pretty cool. But at the same time, I'm well over 24 hours working on this thing, and I still don't have the base or the druids anything more than basecoated.

Very true people. This thing is a monster to paint. Particularly if you paint every single rune (and dear God my theme requires minimum two layers/colors per rune), there're so many of them. I believe I'm scarred for life, I don't know if I'll ever be able to bring myself to paint another Circle rune...

But seriously, I spent 36 hrs painting it (I timed it, yes, as part of a running gag I have with some friends; long story). I am NOT looking toward to the fact that our next Huge Base model is also a Circle Construct.

[VaulSC]

I went a bit overboard on the source lighting with mine...

[PG_Valkine]

I went a bit overboard on the source lighting with mine...

That's one pretty Fulcrum. It's such an amazing looking model. I really want to get one even though there are models that I should really get first (like Gatormen or a woldguardian) and painting it might drive me slightly insane. Still...it is just so cool!

[JoeGuardsman]

Fair warning... that thing requires painting. So. much. painting. When you're a person like me, who feels the need to go through and paint every individual rune... and then drybrush a new color for the orb outside of the runes... and then brighten the runes further...

Granted, my Fulcrum is looking pretty cool. But at the same time, I'm well over 24 hours working on this thing, and I still don't have the base or the druids anything more than basecoated.

Nah, it wasn't that bad at all to paint. I finished mine over a 24 hour period and I had work that day. After work I just opened up a 6 pack started drinking and I woke up in the morning and it was done.

[miker1]

Can it be built without that HORRIBLE base?

[null_sheen]

Nah, it wasn't that bad at all to paint. I finished mine over a 24 hour period and I had work that day. After work I just opened up a 6 pack started drinking and I woke up in the morning and it was done.

I need to try that painting technique any a model can be painted while i drink a 6 pack and go to sleep sounds great by me

[VaulSC]

Finally got the crit freeze off the other night. Boosted to hit with the Cold Spray against Harkevic before the assassination run, triple 6! Felt really good.

Anyway that's just luck and a one-off situation. The more games I play with this thing, the more I have to emphasize that it is a long term piece. The x-factor with the Fulcrum is the mechanic behind the fury accumulation. If you commit it for one round of shooting and let it get destroyed in a trade, it's not likely to have played the right role in your army. This is why I feel it really works in 50pts+, where you can use a lot of your abilities within the faction to keep the enemy at arms-length, delaying the destruction of your army turn after turn. And every turn you stay in the game, the fulcrum is wearing away at them. It doesn't have to exhaust itself like the Menoth BE does, or have to wait for it's power like the Cygnar BE has to. You pick the most relevant weapon each turn and boost with it, so that it really gives you reliable value over time.

[Blaque]

The lightning gun, I think, is vital to using the thing more and more as I have played it. It lets it sit back and wait for most things to come to it. Using the longer ranged attack kind of buys you time to build up fury. And keepig it just out of reach of things creates, I notice, this massive kill zone that people might be afraid to send troops in. It is soft, but still takes more than a single trooper to kill most times, and that is hard to actually get onto it based on how you manage its positioning.

I like it a lot for that, and I think the "long game" thing VaulSC notes is a really good way to look at it, especially with Baldur2. It seems, to me, something that nibbles at the edges a bit, and when it finally gets to freak-out burns and blasts piles of things with it. Sometimes I notice it stays alive long enough on dint that it has killed so much that the opponent has to commit a heavy to finally take it down. Not likely to last too much near-future, but worth noting

Also, the druids are apparently impossible to keep on the damned thing. No where to really pin the little gits.

And stuff.

[blitzgreeg]

the tab on their feet is pretty beefy, i havent had a problem with just using that.

[Asdrubael]

I swore upon seeing the rules for this thing, and my generally negative outlook on all things new, that I would never purchase it. All of you are posing solid, interesting arguments that make me want to give it a shot... I would oh so desperately love a farstrike animus in our faction and/or a caster with snipe. If we got that, this thing would become arguably the best BE. I am now very tempted to try one, but the price tag will hold me back for now. Maybe this summer.