looking for input

[Bald Menite]

Hello fellow angry elves, I am looking for some wisdom.
First, I have 1 of every heavy Myrmidon, pre-Wrath, and I've just bought the new kit.
Second, I've 1 of every type of squad, named solos, and some doubles on regular solos. Thirdly, I have each caster.
When I build my new jack it will not be magnitised, I give a custom paint job to my jacks, nor will be my second (when I get it), the third I plan to magnitise.
With the above information what would you recommend as a first of the House Vyre jack heavies? IMOP each have great options, and as a Ret commander I see a need for a 7 point heavy with a gun, reach, and 2 open fist.

Looking forward to y'alls answers, thank you.

Cheers!

[drachenfels]

probably build in the following order:

1) Daemon - Blessed fists + hellmouth cannon = good

2) Sphinx - +2 attack rolls for Battle mages or Rahn?? hells yea!!

3) Megnet jack for Banshee - momentum shot is nice, but there are still other options for that effect (cricket, force hammer, other slams)


also 1 and 2 still have open fists

[Watchtower]

Banshee.
Banshee.

Then Daemon and Sphinx.

[Baffler]

Banshee.
Banshee.

Then Daemon and Sphinx.

That's my plan. If I get serious about Ossyan, a Hypnos will be third.

[Mastershake]

3) Megnet jack for Banshee - momentum shot is nice, but there are still other options for that effect (cricket, force hammer, other slams)

Hold on, I think I'm on mars or something where a jack that has Reach, two magic weapons with Crit Grievous wounds on the highest base P+S weapons combo available in the faction that's also packing a high POW ranged weapon that slams and can't be disabled and has Wailing just to be annoying is considered last in the build order.

[drachenfels]

Hold on, I think I'm on mars or something where a jack that has Reach, two magic weapons with Crit Grievous wounds on the highest base P+S weapons combo available in the faction that's also packing a high POW ranged weapon that slams and can't be disabled and has Wailing just to be annoying is considered last in the build order.

open fists, lower points costs, crowd control and army buffing abilities. If you just want to mess stuff up a Manticore with an Arcanist has higher damage output while still having the ability to lay down covering fire for the same points cost as an unassisted Banshee

[ucfan34]

Hold on...

I thought the same thing when I saw the initial post, but then thought I just got the names confused. I can't keep them straight since I haven't proxy'd them.

Hypnos should be 1A or 1B if you're serious about Ossyan.

[Lord Sessadore]

open fists, lower points costs, crowd control and army buffing abilities. If you just want to mess stuff up a Manticore with an Arcanist has higher damage output while still having the ability to lay down covering fire for the same points cost as an unassisted Banshee

Banshee has a lot more crowd control than a Sphinx (I don't see what the Sphinx has for crowd control other than reach, to be honest), and knock down is usually a much, much better accuracy buff than +2, and counts for any attack instead of just magic. Really the only advantages of the Sphinx are the open fists and lower cost, Banshee has more flexibility and power.

[Halycon]

for my 2 cents I plan to be running Ossy for a while at least, so I'm going to use the 2 kits I've got on order to create Hypnos and to magnetise the other, but I think for Ossy Banshee and Hypnos will be a great combo.
For Kae I can't make my mind up I think Banshee again along with probably a phoenix, they are similar but have slightly different roles and I see Kae able to keep 2 Phoenixes going so this would likely work as well.
Vyros it's tricky, I think I'd like the sphynx or demon
Ravyn Demon would likely be a good one

I've not used nor planning currently to use Rahn and Garryth so I've not been thinking about this.

[Bald Menite]

Wow, fast replies; however, outside of the Bashee, not many reasons why. The reason why I'm asking this is because their is not much I don't own in the Ret arsenal.
Maybe if I ask it this way:
Out of the new jacks which 1 do y'all think offers something or makes up for something that our prior jacks lacked?
They all offer something great, it is if you already had all the other jacks, which 1 to build first.

Cheers!

[drachenfels]

i still say the Daemon. open fists, an AOE that does NOT deal blast damage, and weapons that dont care what spells the enemy has on them.

[Halycon]

got a question on the daemon to be honest - under ossy's feat would it be boosted damage? if it is the whilst its not as helpful as the banshee knockdown for allowing the stormfalls to hit easier for 12+4d6, I'm just wondering if that could be useful against say high arm like bastions or democorps? a power what 10/12 hit auto boosted would certainly be nothing to sneeze at for even those troops!

[drachenfels]

it is a damage roll resulting from the ranged attack so yes.

[joelker41]

1st one should be banshee. That Jack is only rivaled by Phoenix and Discordia for best Jack in the faction for the cost. The Daemon and Sphinx are cool and all, but you NEED a Banshee and can be satisfied with wanting Sphinx/Daemon.

In 50 points most of our casters could easily get away with a Phoenix/Discordia and a Banshee. I just really don't understand why if you have access to.it that it wouldn't be played over a Daemon/Sphinx.

[tuttleboy]

Banshee
Hypnos
Sphinx
Deamon

That's the order I've built mine...didn't matter much though because I got them all within 10 days of each other.

[Cotillion989]

IMO Banshee is our best jack. I literally hadn't played games for months after trying the new jacks on vassal and then not being able to use them on the table b/c I didn't want to go back to the old jacks for certain casters.

I also like the Sphinx w/mages and lanyssa. Mages can set up the charge, a more consistent hit from Lanyssa- which is just great.

I'm not a huge fan of the Daemon, but I admittedly haven't given it much time as its pillow fists make me sad.

Hypnos is great w/Ozzy, not so much for other people.

[Bean Mk. II]

If you're a big fan of Ossyan, build Hypnos first.

Otherwise, build Banshee first.

Then Daemon (or Hypnos if you play Ossyan at all, really)

Then the other.

Maybe a Sphinx.

But probably not.

[K1rby]

If you're a big fan of Ossyan, build Hypnos first.

Otherwise, build Banshee first.

I'd agree with this - Hypnos + Ossy gives some great board control and excellent Jack disruption.

Banshee not only brings a nice beatstick but some movement control and a "no orders/spells" effect which is great utility.

[Cotillion989]

I'd agree with this - Hypnos + Ossy gives some great board control and excellent Jack disruption.

Banshee not only brings a nice beatstick but some movement control and a "no orders/spells" effect which is great utility.

Personally I'd build the Banshee first, no matter what caster you run. But if Ozzy is your favorite caster I'd quickly follow up the Banshee w/the Hypnos

[joelker41]

IMO Banshee is our best jack. I literally hadn't played games for months after trying the new jacks on vassal and then not being able to use them on the table b/c I didn't want to go back to the old jacks for certain casters.

I also like the Sphinx w/mages and lanyssa. Mages can set up the charge, a more consistent hit from Lanyssa- which is just great.

I'm not a huge fan of the Daemon, but I admittedly haven't given it much time as its pillow fists make me sad.

Hypnos is great w/Ozzy, not so much for other people.

While I.certainly would agree with top.4, banshee probably isn't the best overall IMO. We have 4 legit heavies that I would legitimately call amazing but they each have their specialties. I still have yet find a list that I am not tempted to put in a Phoenix. I also love multitaskers and I firmly believe that Phoenix and Banshee are easily top 5 non character heavy jacks but I am biased.

I have resisted the urge to play both at one time, I would probably have a nerd/joygasm and start speaking in gibberish and baby talk.

[Bean Mk. II]

While I.certainly would agree with top.4, banshee probably isn't the best overall IMO. We have 4 legit heavies that I would legitimately call amazing but they each have their specialties. I still have yet find a list that I am not tempted to put in a Phoenix. I also love multitaskers and I firmly believe that Phoenix and Banshee are easily top 5 non character heavy jacks but I am biased.

I have resisted the urge to play both at one time, I would probably have a nerd/joygasm and start speaking in gibberish and baby talk.

I generally agree. Hydra and Sphinx are underwhelming, but both Character 'jacks are great with the right casters, Phoenix and Banshee are just spectacular, and Daemon and Manticore both do something worthwhile well.

Not nearly as big a fan of our lights, but you really can't complain about the Ret heavies.

That said, I stick to my advice. If Ossyan's your favorite caster, build him a Hypnos first out of the Vyre 'jacks. Otherwise, Banshee first. There's more than one good heavy, but the Banshee is hard to turn down.


edit: fixed names.

[Chip]

I generally agree. Hydra and Phoenix are underwhelming, but both Character 'jacks are great with the right casters, Phoenix and Banshee are just spectacular, and Daemon and Hydra both do something worthwhile well.

...Run that one by me again? The Hydra is both underwhelming and does something worthwhile and the Phoenix is underwhelming and spectacular?

Also, go for the Banshee first, then I'd say Hypnos if you like Ossyan, or a Daemon if you don't - I'm currently looking into trying a Daemon with Kaelyssa - should be fun...

[Bean Mk. II]

...Run that one by me again? The Hydra is both underwhelming and does something worthwhile and the Phoenix is underwhelming and spectacular?

Also, go for the Banshee first, then I'd say Hypnos if you like Ossyan, or a Daemon if you don't - I'm currently looking into trying a Daemon with Kaelyssa - should be fun...

Lol, good call. I botched the names.