Interested in FAST trolls

[Kommander Kabra]

Dear Sirs,

I am a hardcore Searforge player that has decided it is time to play a full faction. Do not get me wrong, I love my stunties and I manage to win about half my games. However, I feel that WM/H has more to offer and I intend to go for it.

With this in mind, I am taking a serious look at Trolls because I love the models and the background. However, to have a bit of a change in playstyle, I would like to play lists that are fast and/or tricksy. Jarl Skuld seems to fit the bill, definitely for the "fast" side of things. I am thinking of a list at 35 pts with Full Longriders, Horthol and an Impaler as a base. I hope that he is as much fun as he seems, and that he can also win his fair share of games.

My questions to you, experienced Troll generals, pertain to how to fill up the rest of the list and also whatever tactical advice you might want to bring to the discussion.

1. Can Jarl cope with a heavy and two lights? For instance, an EBDT and a Pyre, in addition to the Impaler. Would you add whelps in this case?

2. If instead I go the infantry-heavy route, would you advise full Fenns or full Scattergunners? The former are certainly very fast, but the latter would really help against masses of infantry

3. As a heavy, would you prefer EBDT or Bomber, or is there anything else that you feel fits him better?

As a second caster, I am thinking of Calandra since she seems like a bag of tricks. So models that would work for both would have a plus.

Many thanks!

[The_Wretch]

1. Not sure about Jarl.
2. Fenns without a doubt. I never regret buying my unit.
3. I personally prefer the EBDT. There's some fun combos there with Jarl.


Not sure about Calandra either.

[D.Vader]

1.) Do you mean can he fury manage them? Sure. Whelps do help though. I often like 2 heavies with him and the Impaler. I find the force a mauler and EBDT can bring to bare to be enough in most battles. I'm actually not a fan of an axer with him. Sure you can stack some insane distances to sling an EBDT but you often manage to sling him out of your control then too.
2.) Fennblades. Definitely. Scattergunners still struggle for their points IMHO even with the UA.
3.) IMHO EBDT and Jarl are BFF's

[MadHatter5045]

I have no idea about jarl or calandra but for speed (and straight forward in your face speed) look in the sticky at eDoomy. running first turn and feat on second turn is a near unstoppable momentum.

[Largi]

1. Can Jarl cope with a heavy and two lights? For instance, an EBDT and a Pyre, in addition to the Impaler. Would you add whelps in this case?

- Yes and maybe. It depends on your play managment. I'ld go with welps while you're starting out so you can get used to the system but you won't always need them

2. If instead I go the infantry-heavy route, would you advise full Fenns or full Scattergunners? The former are certainly very fast, but the latter would really help against masses of infantry

- Full Fenns. Outright, Vengance, Mini-Feat and Fenns will also be your bread and butter unit for future armies.

3. As a heavy, would you prefer EBDT or Bomber, or is there anything else that you feel fits him better?

- Both are fantastic and I advise you pick up both. You'll start to see the situations each one flowers in.


As a second caster, I am thinking of Calandra since she seems like a bag of tricks. So models that would work for both would have a plus.

- You will already have Calandra's #1 freinds - The Nyss Hunters. Calandra likes her Minions as her feat for re-roll affects them.
Nyss Hunters at Def 15 with 3 dice to hit dropping the lowest? Priceless. Giving them the ability to re-roll 1's and 2's on feat turn... just OUCH. Gators can also clog that centre of the board, and can happily chew through on the same priciple.
You're usually bringing a Bomber or 2 with Calandra too, or maybe an EBDT to crack armour.

[The Happy Anarchist]

The very least beasts I run Jarl with is a heavy and two lights. I always take a combat heavy like the Earthborn or Mulg. Then I take an Impaler because 16" is very key to Jarl not quickly being killed. Then I take a Pyre because damage buffs are important to me. I always want to be able to kill anything I need to on the table.

Fenns for infantry, easily.

For Calandra, the Bomber is great and the Fenns are decent. Gators and Nyss are also solid models with both casters. They go well with Jarl and Calandra due to the lack of faction required buffs.

[Lawso42]

The very least beasts I run Jarl with is a heavy and two lights. I always take a combat heavy like the Earthborn or Mulg. Then I take an Impaler because 16" is very key to Jarl not quickly being killed. Then I take a Pyre because damage buffs are important to me. I always want to be able to kill anything I need to on the table.

That's pretty much my beast line up with Jarl as well. EBDT, Impaler, and usually a Slag, but a Pyre makes the cut as well if I need to shave a point.

Lawso

[Kommander Kabra]

Thanks a lot everyone. This is really helpful.

So it seems that for a 35pt list I need to choose between going beast heavy (a heavy and two lights) or going infantry heavy and getting the fenns. Decisions, decisions.

If I go the first route, taking the necessary longriders (I just love the models) this would leave only 4 or 5 points to play with, depending on whether i take the slag or the pyre as a second light.

Do you guys find the runebear useful with Jarl? What about the whelps if I go with 3 beasts?

Finally, what about using Boomhowler and Co? Both with Jarl and Calandra they would provide a very efficient self-sufficient tarpit. Am I missing something?

cheers

[PG_somnicide]

Runebearer is great with Jarl. You will be casting 1-2 magic bullets almost every turn and then to rotate quicken effectively is really good.

[The Happy Anarchist]

My 35 point list has the Impaler, Pyre, Earthborn, which is about as low as I would go on beasts. Then I have the max Long Riders and Horthol and a Runebearer and I think a Fell Caller. If you did some trimming you might be able to go Gators & Fenns as infantry, but 35 is tight.

[elkap]

At 35 I have been running Mulg, Impaler, max Fenns with UA, min Long Riders, Horthol, Chronicler--then maxing the Long Riders, adding the Wagon, and adding the Runebearer at 50. Pretty fun.

I don't think I would take Boomhowlers with Jarl or Calandra in most cases, as I can get Fenns with the UA for one more point--giving me a nice mini-feat and the ability to soak up Chronicler buffs in my Jarl lists and Fell Caller + Krielstone buffs in my Calandra lists. I guess you could use Boomhowler to protect your Fenns, but that just seems superfluous. At this point I am only running them in the Borka Family Reunion tier (so fun!) and if I am worried about eDoomy getting shot up, as that list will have no support for anything in-faction anyways.

[JohnOSpencer]

I just played a 35pt tournament with Jarl. I had full Fennblades, DTM and two lights(Impaler and Axer). That came in at 24 points (after WB points). You still have a fair amount of points left for support or extra units.

Can't help you with Long Riders, don't own them. I want them, but Trolls are my 3rd faction, and most of my purchase are from eBay on the cheap...and you can never find Long Riders that cheap. Conceptually, they seem awesome, but i'd probably wouldn't add them (with Fennblades) until 50 pts. In fact, if I had to play my list at 50, i'd like to add Long Riders and Horthal and drop the Feralgeist.

Runebearer is not a must, but he is really, really helpful. I might not take him in 35 points if I find something else to use the two points on (such as whelps if you go more beast heavy).

I like both Fennblades and Boomhowlers. Boomhowlers don't get the best use of his feat (which I just realized I didn't use in the last two games), but it's still not bad against living enemies, or vs shooting. On the other hand, it's hard to argue with the raw speed of Fennblades with Quicken, I took my first two opponents completely by surprise. 16" run and then 13" charge with reach is crazy good, in most scenarios it almost seems unfair. If you go first, it will be a bear for the opponent to get into a zone.

[Archimedes the Dog]

I just won a game with Jarl vs. Kraye. EBDT started within 2" of a forest, got quicken on him (and Rage), then he trampled 12" to stand next to Kraye. Kraye has a POW 7 weapon, so two dice+4 attacks kill Kraye dead.

12" of movement, POW 23.

[Lucius]

As someone who normally plays with two Heavies @ 35pts... I played Jarl with EBDT, Impaler, Bouncer, Full Fenns + UA, Scouts + solos...
Talk about fast, gave quicken to the scouts and they were running 16"s down the flank + AD... craziness!!

No need for whelps unless your playing two heavies, better options...

[Kommander Kabra]

Upon more reading and TheoryHording (is that even a term used?) I think I might try a first list with Impaler, Slag, Mauler for beasts. This gives me two STR bonuses to give around, some shooting, and two competent melee beasts. If I calculate correctly, this leaves me 5 points shy of 35.

Options:
1. Scouts: I never thought of them (thanks Lucius!) but they seem to synergize quite well with Jarl's spell list and the AD means fast jamming.
2. Min Fennblades: do these guys pull their weight at low numbers?
3. Runebear plus 3pt something. The Totem Hunter looks like it could be a nice missile to shoot with Jarl.

cheers,
Kabra