Blackbane's Ghost Raiders question

[vegron]

Hey guys,

Is anyone using Blackbane's Ghost Raiders? If so, how do you like them.

IF not, what do you not like about them? I was thinking of running a full troop of them and a full troop of bane thralls with a Terminus unit and see how they do.

I'm just not digging the million man march of mechanithralls, though I'm sure I should be. I know they're cheap and can overwhelm, but I'm just looking for a little variance.

[elplagUe]

I love my BBGR. Such an incredibly awesome unit. Incorporeal is a really strong ability, and continuous fire wins games, and also pressures opponents. They're also very good at clogging lanes and choking things up. Definately a must have for any Cryx player.

[vegron]

I've been pretty stoked about having this unit in my army. I'm a big fan of the fire and can't wait to paint them up.

[Crate123]

I dont like the models and thats the primary criteria for my Cryx army.
Generally I dislike the whole pirate theme PP has going on in this game.
They do seem useful though, if you dont play against Cygnar or Menoth too much.

[Sanctjud]

I'm meh on the mini's too.
Anywho, I've used them with:

pSkarre, eDenny, and Terminus.

pSkarre: as reinforcements in her Tier 4 Theme list. She helps them hit with Dark Guidance and generally that's the most important thing. Played one game where they swelled to 15 members.
eDenny: they are also in her theme list, Incorp unit, that's fast, with her feat, means great scenario denial and contesting, while helping them hit.
Terminus: he offers them tough, and they are fast to get in the way quickly... they interfere with his feat, but they are mostly there to be a distraction rather than kill stuff.

The most important thing about the unit is what you want to do with them. Once you figure out what you want to do, you need to commit.
Blackbane is very important to keep alive if you want to swell your numbers, in which case you need to maximize blocking LoS and using his command range to the fullest.
Otherwise, if you are using them to just tie things up, full run into melee is fine and stay incorp.

First things you should know is what magical weapons are on the other side of the board, this makes Blackbanes a hit or miss unit, because thier 'durability' is hard countered by magic and magical weapons.

[Barrynstein]

I like them a lot, and I really really like them with pSkarre. However in my meta, access to magical weapons is pretty prevalent. I have only come across a few lists that didn't have A&H (the mercs) or weren't Menoth.

However against most Hordes, they are great to contesting zones, or tying down a unit.

Once kept an entire unit of Winterguard tied down while simultaneously contesting a scenario zone. Pretty awesome.

[Murkhadh]

I dont like the models and thats the primary criteria for my Cryx army.
Generally I dislike the whole pirate theme PP has going on in this game.
They do seem useful though, if you dont play against Cygnar or Menoth too much.

The companies name is "Privateer" Press, a privateer is pretty much a legal pirate. It should be an easy guess going in that the game will have pirates.

[Lamoron]

I love them...

[Crate123]

The companies name is "Privateer" Press, a privateer is pretty much a legal pirate. It should be an easy guess going in that the game will have pirates.

That is very true. You have to remember though that I started when the very first battleboxes were out. There was nothing piratey about the game back then at all.
Still, they can make all the pirates they want, its their game and lots of people like that idea. Im just not one of them and as long as they dont make them mandatory I wont be too miffed.

[The Horror]

I had a nice blackbane moment in a game last week. I was using them in my pSkarre strike force to tie up his second wave as much as possible as raiders charge the front lines. So the ghosts were tiring up a unit of Cygnar stormblades and on the next turn one was in walking distance of pNemo. The ghost walked up to Nemo and swinging with one boosted to hit str 15 hit (dark guidance and feat) Nemo fell to 2 HP (he took a few points from satyxis feedback). The fire killed Nemo on his next turn, turning my attrition turn into the assassination turn. People really underestimate just how large a threat range speed 7 with incorporeal really is.

[ZombieWar]

@lamoron: I am sorry if this is a stupid question but why does your write up talk about putting the spell ghost walk on them?

[IsaacX28]

@lamoron: I am sorry if this is a stupid question but why does your write up talk about putting the spell ghost walk on them?

With Ghost Walk they are immune to ALL free strikes, magical or not. It lets them walk through Menoth at all times to recruit the Choir.

[Deo85]

With Ghost Walk they are immune to ALL free strikes, magical or not. It lets them walk through Menoth at all times to recruit the Choir.

This is WIN
I will have to give them more tries but so fare they are a rather solid flank unit that can tie up anything you want to give the rest of your slow *** bane thralls time to get up the field. Damn you SPEED 5!!!

[Aggy]

I love the models, and I do plan on getting them sometime in the near furture, but for now I cannot afford new minis. So therefor they will have to wait until next year. I bet they would be good with Coven IMHO.

[Deo85]

I love the models, and I do plan on getting them sometime in the near furture, but for now I cannot afford new minis. So therefor they will have to wait until next year. I bet they would be good with Coven IMHO.

I don't know if I run them with Coven personally. Coven is really a delivery caster helping your army get to where ever you want to go. These guys all ready can get through anything past magical though ghostly will help you there so it seems wasted. I rather take units that naturally need help getting to there targets like Bane Knights getting stealth or helping are vary fragile Soul Hunters.

[Caanos]

I figured I might as well ask this question here. Does the Ghost Raider's Reanimation work if the enemy is killed by the continuous fire effect from the swords? My gut tells me no from the wording, but I want to double check as I just picked up a unit of them.

[Sanctjud]

No, the fire damage is from the fire, not from the Black banes.

[Lamoron]

No, the fire damage is from the fire, not from the Black banes.

Man if that worked...

[Sanctjud]

Still be a second rate unit Trololol

[LordRavurion]

I have them and use them regularly when playing cryxpirates or denny. Last game I used them was last monday and they where nothing more then a distraction. (albeit one that took a soul belonging to terminus and made it a ghostraider..). The opponent had a unit of woldstalkers reserved to deal with them and when I fainted to the other side of the field they trudged after it, not taking shots at the other stuff in my army.


Other times they are just there to soak up charges (can't charge past them and if there are no magic weapons you can't hit) or run to engage.

I plan on a list that will have very fast movement but few natural hard hitters, involving pSkarre, stalkers, blackbanes and full raiders, plus some solo's for fun). Need to buy 4 more blackbanes and 2 more raiders to make the list though...)

[IAN LACEY]

Mine are coming along nicely, though they are taking rather more than a day to paint up. I look forward to seeing them tangle with Legion.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

I wonder about using them as reinforcements. Seems to me that bringing on an incorporeal unit late in the game to dispute or control makes it harder for an opponent to counter by deploying a magical ranged attack to match them.

[GlassJaw]

With Ghost Walk they are immune to ALL free strikes, magical or not. It lets them walk through Menoth at all times to recruit the Choir.

Very dirty. I love it. Still haven't used my Raiders yet but really looking forward to it.

[Rionnay]

I love them! They're a great distraction unit, incredibly fast and incorp helps a lot. I suggest a max squad however, the min squad is ok, but I've found 6 guys is easy to deal with and somewhat point inefficient. I suggest trying them with 3 units of 10 mechthralls. The mechthralls can clean our magic weapons so that your BBGR can charge through not needing ghost wallk. Also someone mentioned fire, YES fire wins games. I've set Vayl, gareth, and denny on fire. . .yes fire hurts a lot.

The one issue I've found with BBGR is placement. If blackbane himself dies I cry :'( because he's the most fun part of the unit. I love running them with Scavy, he has ghost walk, has a DEF debuff and if you can feast of worms a fired enemy caster you're in great shape :-)

[Sanctjud]

Setting those casters on fire is the hard part though.
They have terrible MAT.
If you are debuffing your opponent heavily already, then they should be killed by anything really.

Fire killing your opponent means it was essentially a failed assassination run, in which Fire was your last chance and lucked out.

[GaspysInhaler]

I've killed a couple warlocks with their fire (including Saeryn ) - Much of it depends on positioning the BB's behind their caster to get free strikes if they try to move. It's rare, but it can happen.

Now onto the Blackbanes being a solid unit -- So much of it is match up dependent. They can be blown off the table by Cygnar, and other factions first turn.

But they are an absolute terror against certain hordes lists, especially minions. I don't field them against minions unless it's a tournament. IMO Not really fun running a unit that is essentially invulnerable unless I expose them to the caster's spells or weapon. And it's especially unfun for your opponent.

In the last big tournament I was in, they did exactly what I figured they would do. Completely ineffective against a pDenny list that spelled them to death, but they pretty much guaranteed my win against a Pig player who had no answer for them. Although, I think now minions have a solo that can give magic attacks? Not 100%, I think its in an NQ.

[Muffin Man]

The one issue I've found with BBGR is placement. If blackbane himself dies I cry :'( because he's the most fun part of the unit. I love running them with Scavy, he has ghost walk, has a DEF debuff and if you can feast of worms a fired enemy caster you're in great shape :-)

Something I've been wondering, is incorporeal all/nothing on the unit or is it on a model-by-model basis?

If the latter, then you can just elect to have Blackbane run behind the unit while the rest of the unit charges in; so he now has a nice screen + incorporeal to keep him safe.

Of course you trade off not getting deathtoll... assuming incorporeal isn't toggled on/off across the entire unit when one member attacks.

[Crate123]

Something I've been wondering, is incorporeal all/nothing on the unit or is it on a model-by-model basis?

If the latter, then you can just elect to have Blackbane run behind the unit while the rest of the unit charges in; so he now has a nice screen + incorporeal to keep him safe.

Of course you trade off not getting deathtoll... assuming incorporeal isn't toggled on/off across the entire unit when one member attacks.

Its a model per model basis.
Blackbane doesnt have deathtoll, you are confusing him with Rengrave.

[Scotty]

I use them with PDenny and they work great against most lists, but yeah gun mages are a real threat to them. In my 50 point pdenny list I also take a min unit of bile thralls, its always fun to run the bb's into a unit and just tie them up by staying incoporeal then move up a few biles and purge all over them, bb's take no damage while the unit they were ingaged with melts away, rinse repeat ;-)

[Daniel Plainview]

I often face Doomreavers and Gun Mages, so Incorporeal often doesn't boast many strengths beyond manoeuvrability. Even outside of my immediate meta, I'd struggle to find a place for the ghost pirates in many of my lists. Their ability to rush enemy units and deny your opponent easy answers to solve the problem they present is already performed by Satyxis Raiders for me. The Satyxis move fast, ignore terrain impediment and resist hostile shooting well. I won't shed a tear tossing the Satyxis at a juicy target and activating Power Swell, only to die to enemy revenge attacks next turn; I imagine that Blackbane and his pals usually fair similar the turn following any attack, due to the loss of Incorporeal.

Despite all this, part of me swoons at the fanciful idea of an 'Ghost Army' featuring the Wraith Engine, Blackbane and a pair of Pistol Wraiths, all led by eDenny...

[SpiderBite]

I like my Blackbane Ghost Raiders. eDen is my primary caster with them. Such a good tarpit unit, and one of the few way we have of setting things on fire, which is always fun. My meta has gotten less and less infantry heavy of late, so they dont actually see the table as much anymore.
That being said. . .

@Scotty: anything works great with pDen!

@Daniel Plainview: good points about the BBGR. I prefer raiders in most current lists, but when I do use them, its usually with a caster with GhostWalk, so they avoid the free striking magic weapons anyway. And the original attacking models are not what holds up the enemy. Its the new guys created, who are still Incorp as they havent done anything to lose it who mess up the works. Just keep Blackbane himself safe and not actually getting into the fight.

[Daniel Plainview]

Huh, interesting. Despite regularly using Tartarus to create Banes with which to cover himself, I never really considered using the freshly 'press ganged' incorporeal Raiders as a means with which to continue the lifetime of the unit when left vulnerable after an aggressive turn. Silly me!

How do people feel about using Rengrave to improve the accuracy of Blackbane's Raiders? Drawing line of sight to Rengrave to gain the benefit of his veteran leader ability (+2MAT to Revenants) 'should' be easier through Incorporeal peers if you attack in a sensible order (i.e the last Ghost Raider to attack, thereby loosing Incorporeal, should be the one blocking the most line of sight).

[ViperClaw]

How do people feel about using Rengrave to improve the accuracy of Blackbane's Raiders? Drawing line of sight to Rengrave to gain the benefit of his veteran leader ability (+2MAT to Revenants) 'should' be easier through Incorporeal peers if you attack in a sensible order (i.e the last Ghost Raider to attack, thereby loosing Incorporeal, should be the one blocking the most line of sight).

I didn't think of this. I have tried to use Rengrave with the Rev Crew but it is much harder to get line of sight to him when making an attack with the Gang bonus as well. Some will get it on occasion but mostly not. With the BBGRs it would work much easier but would still require some careful placing and good attack order as well. I don't have BBGR yet but would like to get them. Like the models and like the Incorporeal and Reanimate.

[Daniel Plainview]

It only occurred to me when I realised the ease of eyeballing Rengrave with the Revenant Cannon by virtue of Ghost Shot (RAT8 POW14 blast, yay!), and the Ghost Raiders could achieve something similar when in the press of melee (/jamming).

While on the subject of auxiliary boosts, it seems to me that there may be some utility in the Wraith Engine granting protection for the Ghost Raiders against magical blasts when within Unhallowed range (10" from the Wraith Engine). From reading this thread it seems that most of you are using the Ghost Raiders to jam enemy lines, so preventing the enemy from blasting a group of bunched models with a single Arcane Blast would be nifty. The Wraith Engine and the Ghost Raiders could effectively take it in turns to become Incorporeal, leapfrogging through each other; though there is some counter-intuitiveness to this combo as the Ghost Raiders prevent the Wraith Engine from vacuuming souls due to their penchant to remove enemy infantry from play.

[Khamos]

I love Blackbane's Ghost Raiders, but the models are ugly as hell. I would love to see Privateer Press
resculpt this unit!

[IAN LACEY]

Cunning plan this weekend is to use them against Legion as a first strike, then follow up with something able to finish off some of the Gatormen. There's also the distinct possibility of some Reanimation action versus...Gallow Groves. Hilarious, IF I can pull it off.

[Barrynstein]

It only occurred to me when I realised the ease of eyeballing Rengrave with the Revenant Cannon by virtue of Ghost Shot (RAT8 POW14 blast, yay!), and the Ghost Raiders could achieve something similar when in the press of melee (/jamming).

While on the subject of auxiliary boosts, it seems to me that there may be some utility in the Wraith Engine granting protection for the Ghost Raiders against magical blasts when within Unhallowed range (10" from the Wraith Engine). From reading this thread it seems that most of you are using the Ghost Raiders to jam enemy lines, so preventing the enemy from blasting a group of bunched models with a single Arcane Blast would be nifty. The Wraith Engine and the Ghost Raiders could effectively take it in turns to become Incorporeal, leapfrogging through each other; though there is some counter-intuitiveness to this combo as the Ghost Raiders prevent the Wraith Engine from vacuuming souls due to their penchant to remove enemy infantry from play.

Not really. SO in an ideal situation raiders are jamming up infantry - Wraith engine charges, killing off as many as it can with reach using rest of souls as it pleases - now you activate BBR, which ahve an easier time killing off anything left in reach of the WE and growing their ranks.

Probably never happen as I have yet to get a WE into melee with anything but the most unprepared for incorporeal and lacked decent ranged options.

[Sanctjud]

Blackbanes should be charging, and thus need help hitting, rather than dark shroud. On that note, ffs, the WE should have had malediction rather than dark shroud :-/

[Barrynstein]

Blackbanes should be charging, and thus need help hitting, rather than dark shroud. On that note, ffs, the WE should have had malediction rather than dark shroud :-/

I agree 100 percent about the malediction. My idea was that Blackbane's were faster, and already likely tying up whatever infantry was the target that would even allow the WE to get close enough - and during all that there would be a way for the WE to gather a fair amount of soles before BBR started trying to swell their ranks. Add to that a few bad damage rolls, and a few lucky fire damage rolls and you'd probably be able to load up the WE with souls again before its next activation.
Again highly doubtful any of this would happen.

[ZombieCapt'n]

I pretty much started Warmachine around a pSkarre and pirate spam army I've been using the raiders for a while now they are probably one of my favorite units. There are many different ways to use them. As of late I've been using them in a less traditional manor. Over the past month I was using a tier 4 eDenny list in prep for a theme list tourny and what I found was, instead of using their speed to its max from the first turn instead walk/run them behind a unit of knights. Let the knights engage and then if they haven't wiped up the unit let blackbanes do it and collect a few extra raiders then use them to back up the Knights people usually wont want to charge a full unit of banes + tie themselves up with a 10+ man unit of raiders.

Now as far as bringing along a 9 point distraction unit I wouldn't waste my time. Theres not a person in my meta that doesn't just brush off the raiders when they're on the table. BBGR + ghostly + marked for death on the enemy caster = 10 ghosts charging 10.5" with MAT 8 (effectively Def - 2 for MFD) with continuous fire and being able to draw LoS from anywhere and be able to surround the caster. Yeah its only P+S 10 but on a charge your getting SOME damage off and since they all attack the caster has to deal with a full unit surrounding them and then the rest of your army which at that point should be right in their casters face. I will say that running that teir 4 list I went 13/2 over three weeks then the tourny (3/1) I know eDenny had a lot to do with it but those ghosts were MVP for me through the tourny.

Thats just my input Solid unit, worth the points if your using them as anything except a distraction for the same point value you can get 10 mech thralls 2 brutes and/or 1-2 necrosurgons.