Rhulic questions

[ebonesmalones]

Hello,

I recently decided to get into Warmachine and today, I went into my local game store and looked at the factions to decipher which I liked best. I chose the Rhulic mercenaries(pretty bomb diggity looking figures) and bought Madhammer along with a Rockram. I would love to know what other Rhulic units are effective and if i should grab more jack's or infantry first?

[Robert Shepherd]

Thor Steinhammer is a must; Tune Up is one of the most powerful buffs you can stack on a warjack. Madhammer himself can also run multiple warjacks effectively; Drillers are a Rhulic staple and probably the best 6pt warjack in the game, and Bashers ad a lot of utility. Both light warjacks are also good. Avoid the Avalancher, it's a trap (far too expensive relative to what it contributes).

Other than Thor and your warjacks, though, I don't really have any suggestions. Rhulic models have their place in certain lists, but you asked about what is 'effective', and Durgen and Gorten are both more effective if you expand outside of the Rhulic unit set and start taking other mercenaries. For Durgen specifically, he's just not himself without Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator and Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (who, working together, ramp Durgen's firepower up to pretty much unparalleled heights), and wants infantry that aren't dependent on huddling together for ARM bonuses in order to have an effective target for his Primed spell (seriously, this is probably one of the best spells in the game, unless you make the mistake of casting it on Forge Guard or Gun Corps).



That said, if you're set on going Rhul-only, I'm sure someone will be along to try and sell you on Searforge shortly.

[PG_Rassilon]

Your shopping list: (in order of importance)

1. Gorten Grundback
2. Thor Steinhammer
3. Grundback Basher Warjack
4. Ghordson Driller Warjack
5. Horgenhold Forgeguard Units
6. Grundback Blasters and Gunners
7. Brun Cragback and Lug (Hordes Minions Lesser Warlock Set)
8. Hammerfall Gun Corps Unit and Unit Attachment

That should be a plenty to get you started. Welcome to the Brothers of Rhul, my friend.

[canadianone]

Rancor in 5... 4... 3... 2...



I have heard that Nyss Hunters (mercenary character unit, think snow elves) are GREAT with primed.

[ebonesmalones]

Thank you guys for your advice. I think ill buy the merc book and decide if I should either expand outside of the Rhulic units or run only dwarves however, I really do love those Forgegaurd mini's.

[Minotaur]

The Mercenary book is brilliant. I have two mercenary armies. I am doing a Magnus theme list and Searforge commission army (and using that sometimes as a Gorten theme list). Sure, they both use the same book, but I do not consider them the same army, they have their own schemes, and I do not intend on using them together. Rhul has a lot of character by itself. I love the gunner and blaster, with one focus boosting all their rolls, which is brilliant.

[Kenlen]

+1 on Thor. Drillers, bashers, gunners and blasters are all very good jacks. The Rockram is fine with Durgen, although some people around here seem to dislike it. Forgeguard are rock-hard in melee.

Everything that'll work in Searforge will work in Highborn as well, except Brun and Lug. So you can easily expand out of Searforge anytime you feel constricted by that contract and it's limitations.

Of the two rhulic casters I'd say that Durgen Madhammer is clearly better in Highborn, there is just so much better synergy with his abilities (he's also very good in 4*). With Gorten Grundback the difference isn't as great, he's a strong caster in and out of Searforge.

[StJason]

Of the two rhulic casters I'd say that Durgen Madhammer is clearly better in Highborn, there is just so much better synergy with his abilities (he's also very good in 4*). With Gorten Grundback the difference isn't as great, he's a strong caster in and out of Searforge.

If Madhammer's best spell is Primed, Gorton's is clearly Solid Ground. Rhulic squads in general don't even feel most blasts. However, get some weaker units (say, Nyss or Gun Mages), then being able to ignore blasts becomes quite huge...

[Rancor]

*Smashes Through Wall in Giant Driller Costume alla Coolaid Guy*

OOOOOOHHHHH YEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

Hello Ebones, and welcome to the cool kid club. I would like to start by suggesting that you stick with strictly Rhulic/Searforge models, and ignore all of that other mamby pamby junk. As far as what to pick up next, here you go. Buy this in this order:

• Gorten
• Thor
• Driller
• 2 gunners
• basher
• Max forgeguard
• Rockbottom
• Gudrun
• Bokur
• Max Highshield
• Highshield UA
• Durgen
• Herne and Jonne
• Avalancher
• Max Ogrun Assault Corps
• Rockram
• Brun and Lug
• 2nd Driller
• 2nd Basher
• 2 Blasters
• 2nd Bokur
• 2nd avalancher
• 2nd Max Forgeguard
• 2nd Max Highshield
• 2nd Highshield UA
• 2nd Ogrun Assault Corps
• 2nd Rockram
• 3rd Basher
• 3rd Avalancher
• 3rd Bokur

Also, part of being a good Rhulic/Searforge player is you must buy any new Rhulic/Searforge model as soon as it comes out, even if you think it will do poorly on the field. Supporting the group is key. Feel free to check out The Ghord Gazette", which is linked in my sig.

[rydiafan]

I vastly disagree with you putting the avalancher above the rockram, rancor. A tuned-up redlined rockram is a thing of beauty, especially with explosivo under Durgen's feat boosting the assault attack.

Edit: also, Gudrun is awful and I hate him. Why doesn't his minifeat let him stand up for free?

[Rancor]

Also, Gudrun is awful and I hate him. Why doesn't his minifeat let him stand up for free?

You hate a MAT 7 P+S 15 model with pathfinder, reach, beserk, and 16 hit boxes??? For 3 points...??? WHY?

Also, I can list out just as many things that makes the avalancher better than the rockram as I could the other way around. I've simply found the avalancher more effective, that's all.

[mikethefish]

You hate a MAT 7 P+S 15 model with pathfinder, reach, beserk, and 16 hit boxes??? For 3 points...??? WHY?

Well personally I hate him cause his model sucks. Looks poor and breaks easily. *shrug*

[Kenlen]

If Madhammer's best spell is Primed, Gorton's is clearly Solid Ground. Rhulic squads in general don't even feel most blasts. However, get some weaker units (say, Nyss or Gun Mages), then being able to ignore blasts becomes quite huge...

Yes, but all Rhulic models get knocked down fairly easy, which solid ground prevents, and the Ruhlic units usually clump up somewhat fiercely and any AOE will hit a largish number of them. They may be highly resistant to blasts, but roll enough dice... Still better with high DEF, low ARM models, I'll agree, but not bad in Searforge either.
But the thing for me is the loss of the 4" of extra deployment outside Searforge, that's a big deal for Gorten. At least in my experience.

[rydiafan]

You hate a MAT 7 P+S 15 model with pathfinder, reach, beserk, and 16 hit boxes??? For 3 points...??? WHY?

Because he gets shot and dies. Then, because he doesn't stand up for free, he limps forward 6" and then dies again.

Also, with my luck he always misses with his charge attack, so berserk is irrelevant.

[Robert Shepherd]

Because he gets shot and dies. Then, because he doesn't stand up for free, he limps forward 6" and then dies again.

Also, with my luck he always misses with his charge attack, so berserk is irrelevant.

*Touches envelope to forehead*

My phenomenal psychic powers are predicting... "but, but, but, solid ground!!!"

[pattison]

I'd like to express my disappointment over the fact that you're putting the Blasters quite low on the shopping list.
I don't really understand how can several debated models (Gudrun, Avalancher, etc.) be higher priority?
Please, is there any debate about the Blasters?
Don't we agree that they're bringing something very important for Searforge (boostable sprays) and that they're great value for points (powerful shot)?
On my list they're coming right after the Casters/BashersDriller/Thor bunch. I don't really get how their importance is not highlighted more for the newbies.

My shopping list then:

Gorten
Durgen
Thor
Driller
Basher
2 Blasters
Max forgeguard
2 gunners
2nd Basher
Rockbottom
Rockram
Bokur
Max Highshield
Highshield UA
2nd Max Forgeguard
2 more Blasters
Herne and Jonne
Max Ogrun Assault Corps
Gudrun
3rd Max Forgeguard
Brun and Lug
Avalancher
Horgenhold Artillery
2nd Driller
2nd Bokur
2nd Max Highshield
2nd Highshield UA
2nd Ogrun Assault Corps
2nd Rockram
3rd Basher
2nd Avalancher
3rd Avalancher
3rd Bokur

[Hjelmen0]

Also, part of being a good Rhulic/Searforge player is you must buy any new Rhulic/Searforge model as soon as it comes out, even if you think it will do poorly on the field.

So, where is the Artillery Corps in your list?

[rydiafan]

*Touches envelope to forehead*

My phenomenal psychic powers are predicting... "but, but, but, solid ground!!!"

Which nullifies one of his supposed defensive abilities and his minifeat. Also, a model which requires an upkeep spell from my 5 focus caster in order to function is a model I don't need. I have plenty of stuff that functions on its own. Plus, half (assumedly two-thirds) of Searforge casters don't have that answer.

[Scalifano]

Because he gets shot and dies. Then, because he doesn't stand up for free, he limps forward 6" and then dies again.

That's funny because I was going to write the same thing. The only good thing about Gudrun is that my opponents fear him, and spend more resources than necessary to kill him twice. So, in the end, I guess I rather have my opponent attacking and killing Gudrun twice than my Forge Guard.

I also think Blasters should be a little higher on the list. My opponents always ask me, is that bunny the spray one or the regular one? I'll answer, it's the regular one. And then it's almost always followed with a response of good or yeah. There is some real hate of that auto boosted atk/dmg spray attack for 1 focus.

[Hjelmen0]

I never leave home without Gudrun. Mostly because he is so fast (when compared to the other Rhulic options), which makes him a very good fire-and-forget model. I use him into the enemy as fast as possible, preferably into their biggest block of shooters on a flank. If nothing else, it forces your opponent to focus on him, leaving at least some models occupied while the rest of the army moves into position.

Sure, he'll get knocked down. Sure, his mini-feat is almost useless (I've used it twice, and albeit to good effect, it is not very good in general). But he is also a distraction and he does that very well. I've had terrible luck with his attack rolls, but just tying something up within reach is usually worth it to me.

YMMV and so on, but I find him indispensable.

[Rancor]

Which nullifies one of his supposed defensive abilities and his minifeat. Also, a model which requires an upkeep spell from my 5 focus caster in order to function is a model I don't need. I have plenty of stuff that functions on its own. Plus, half (assumedly two-thirds) of Searforge casters don't have that answer.

I start him at 20" and depending on the order of activation and the table layout, I do the following:

*I go first*
There is a unit within running distance = run to engage = tar pit.
There is nothing within running distance and nothing that can shoot Gudrun = walk to setup a charge on my next turn.
There is nothing within running distance but there is a unit that will most likely shoot Gudrun = walk and knock myself down = feign death

*They go first*
All options listed above plus
There is a unit within charge distance = charge = berserk

So how are you getting your Gudrun killed so easily?

[perilsensitive]

Gotta agree with pat, I love blasters. Sprays ignore so much stuff, and full boosted sprays everywhere for super cheap is too good to pass up. Infantry spam makes a sad face seeing 3 blasters across the field.

[griffster]

Gotta agree with pat, I love blasters. Sprays ignore so much stuff, and full boosted sprays everywhere for super cheap is too good to pass up. Infantry spam makes a sad face seeing 3 blasters across the field.

i agree blasters are great and so are the gunners it anoys the hell out of the people i play with them getting the double boost for 1 focus ,i like to field 4 on some lists,

[pattison]

There is nothing within running distance but there is a unit that will most likely shoot Gudrun = walk and knock myself down = feign death

Then how do you proceed next turn? Just curious.

[Stevius]

Hello,

I recently decided to get into Warmachine and today, I went into my local game store and looked at the factions to decipher which I liked best. I chose the Rhulic mercenaries(pretty bomb diggity looking figures) and bought Madhammer along with a Rockram. I would love to know what other Rhulic units are effective and if i should grab more jack's or infantry first?

I just wanna say, "Holy hell, why are you guys advising this dude to throw down $300-400 on an army he knows nothing about?"

I can think of no better way to leave a guy disheartened, disillusioned, and sworn off of Warmachine forever.

Dude, what you wanna do is build a sweetass 25 point noob army. Don't spend a goddamn dime more until you've played at least a couple dozen games. My mates and I have had over a dozen games each now, and we still flub the rules, and we still discover interesting ways to combo the different units off one another.

Once you get the timing down, and get used to buffing your units with spells before using them, and setting up charge lanes and all the other Warmachine shenanigans, then you will be ready to expand to 35 or maybe even 50 points. And you will be able to answer for yourself what units you liked the most, or which ones seemed to work the best for you. Mostly though, you need time and experience to figure out how your army can respond to different threats like the Circle's rapewolf that charges from 16" away and violates your caster in one turn (man I hate him), or a ranged threat like Cygnar Longunners.

I went with Gorton for the serious laughs 'cuz nothing beats the look on your opponent's face when you bash his Everblight heavy into the stratosphere with a Ghordson Basher, use the Landslide feat, then proceed to beat Thagrosh down mano a mano, in one activation, with a fricken' dwarf.

To that end, my suggestion for a 25 noob army is:

Gorton
>Driller
>Blaster
>Gunner
>Gunner
Horgenhold Forge Guard x5
Thor
>Basher
>Blaster

The above 25 point army will run you around $100-120. I bought my minis off Amazon, but you could spend a little more and support your LGS. Once you know this army inside and out, you could decide whether you want to stay Rhulic and grow a sickass beard like rancor, or branch out into Fourstar or Highborn. (I personally am looking into Highborn).

Since you went with Madhammer, I am certain that one of the lads can give you a great noob build starring the nuttier dwarf. I think that you will be happy with the Durgen/Rockram combo as the center of your army so long as the rest of the army is built smartly and efficiently around it. Just remember to play like you got a pair (of testicles, I think - you know - 'cuz it doesn't make sense if they're ovaries), because many times you will be caught on your back foot by armies that have a veritable swiss army knife of options. Go in guns blazing and hammers swinging to keep them off-balance; just 'cuz yer a dwarf doesn't mean you can't haul bawllz.

Whatever you do, my suggestion is to keep it cheap for now so you don't burn yourself out by buying units that you discover later that you really don't like.

[perilsensitive]

I think the shopping lists were just the suggested order in which to buy things, not "buy all of this"

[Stevius]

I think the shopping lists were just the suggested order in which to buy things, not "buy all of this"

I agree. It's just that to include them in a discussion like this can be very daunting to a new player. The OP stated that he/she is new to Warmachine. So I set out to illustrate that you can have gripping, suspenseful, and exciting games at the 25 point level. Which to my mind no one else was doing.

[perilsensitive]

Agreed. I love 25 point games. Alot more depth than 15, but a lot less stressful than a 35 or 50 point game.

[Zelot # 87]

Has the OP tried out the Journeyman League. You don't even need to have other play the league just play a couple of games at each point level should help I think.

[rydiafan]

There is nothing within running distance but there is a unit that will most likely shoot Gudrun = walk and knock myself down = feign death

Then how do you proceed next turn? Just curious.

Indeed, you just cost yourself Gudrun for three turns. The turn he mini-feats he does nothing. The next turn he does nothing, because he has to forfeit something to stand. The third turn he does nothing, as he has to forfeit something to stand due to being murdered. On hypothetical turn 4 he is dead again forever.

There is a unit within running distance = run to engage = tar pit.

I don't find a one model tar pit to be overly effective most of the time. True, if he manages to engage a key ranged solo he'll be annoying, but I don't find that happens often enough to be more valuable than a bunny or bokur, which cost the same.

There is nothing within running distance and nothing that can shoot Gudrun = walk to setup a charge on my next turn.

It might be my meta, but I rarely can find a spot where nothing is able to shoot at or charge him while still having him be in position to threaten anything next turn. Again, in fairness, purposefully leaving him way out of threat range, but within charge distance of a scenario point, seems like his best use. Hypothetically he threatens any troopers attempting to contest the one, as he can charge in and berserk all over their butts. Best use I can find for him, except that...

There is a unit within charge distance = charge = berserk

...I always miss my charge attack.

[perilsensitive]

Primed Gudrun = very dead 2" radius around his model.

[Robert Shepherd]

Which nullifies one of his supposed defensive abilities and his minifeat. Also, a model which requires an upkeep spell from my 5 focus caster in order to function is a model I don't need. I have plenty of stuff that functions on its own. Plus, half (assumedly two-thirds) of Searforge casters don't have that answer.

Oh, I know. It's still the answer I'd expect from some of our more... ardent searforgers.

[Joasht]

I'm curious, why are there more suggestions for the Gunner than the Blaster? I always thought having a super-boostable spray is a good thing in any army, particularly one with a low model count. Is it because the Basher's Flak Field is sufficient to kill infantry?

[Hjelmen0]

Personally, I like the Gunner for the better range, and higher POW. That makes it a very credible ranged assassin, especially when coupled with either Landslide or Explosivo+Bombs Away. Also, it's really great at picking off solos or officers.

But, with the rising tendency (at least in my meta) of infantry- and stealth-heavy lists, the Blaster is gaining on the Gunner. In my current Durgen build, I bring two of each type (the Shield Guard ruling saved me three points in each and every list, which I use for another Grundback light 'jack).

Flak Field is not sufficient to kill infantry, at least not in my experience. You'll want Blasters, but you'll usually also want Gunners.

[Kenlen]

Yep, Blasters and Gunners is the way to go, they fill different roles and do it excellently.

Gudrun. When I use him, he's usually running interference on a flank. He almost never charges, he just runs into melee, preferably with a clump of infantry flanking the other way, tying up those models and whatever other resources my opponent needs to put him down. This usually keeps those resources out of position for a round, sometimes two. That, and sometimes going for objectives is how I use him.
If I can keep my opponent off-balance for a round or two, it's easily worth sacrificing three points. That said, I take him when the mood strikes me, certainly not every game, and when I do, he does OK.

[Rancor]

Maybe your Gudrun's are just a little too drunk. My Gudrun is just drunk enough, because he champs almost every time I take him. And yes, a primed Gudrun is a slaughtery Gudrun.

[StJason]

My Gudrun exists soley to scare the living *$&#( out of my opponents. I don't think he's ever killed a single model, but I've had warjacks, squads, and warcasters turn to deal with thim rather then anything that will actually do something...

[SportsComedian]

If Gudrun is killed while in Gorten's solid ground, what is the rule there? Dunno why he'd be so close to Gorten...but would his mini-feat not go off since he is immune to knockdown? Would he just refill his hitboxes? Would he ignore Solid Ground and just take the effects normally?

Ever been a ruling on this?

[rydiafan]

He would just refill his boxes. No ruling needed, as "can't" always trumps "is", including in regards to knockdown.

[Da-Rock]

Primed with Kayazy Eliminators was just beautiful. Surprised I haven't seen them mentioned yet