2x Blindwater 35pts

[drachenfels]

so im likely entering a "super 8" tournie shortly. Rules will be SR2012, 1 or 2 lists, character restricted, NO reserves, Hordes ONLY
(3 events, one all hordes, one all warmachine, then top4 from each enter into a combined, and can pick new lists)

so i was considering the following pairs...

first up - the "default list"
"Maelock's Wall"
Basicaly posse out front, pact on them, double spiny from maelock, spiny from snapper, spiny from wrong eye, spiny from his snapper to sit the gators at arm 20+unyielding+feat.
with that just brick forward and slowly grind through. Hope to lure or push their warlock/anything tasty to the table edges and pounce the ambush on them.
WE&SJ submerge almost all game. wrastler keeps pace but to the side for counter charging what hits the front brick.
Against all hordes opponents the threat range of the posse with that armor and their ferocity should be to much to handle.

System: Hordes
Faction: Blindwater Congregation
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Maelok, the Dreadbound (*6pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)
* Blackhide Wrastler (9pts)
Bog Trog Ambushers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (9pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)




Second list
"poor pop and drop"
basically somewhat classic barnie... advance in swamp pits, non stealth solos hide behind the wall of stuff in pits (since they still block line of sight), is able against no fury, pop feat, hit with the spitter, finish off with javelins... if opportunity never presents classic grind out warpath abuse, and possibly flying wrastler (thrown by spitter)

System: Hordes
Faction: Blindwater Congregation
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Bloody Barnabas (*6pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)
* Blackhide Wrastler (9pts)
* Ironback Spitter (8pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Croak Hunter (2pts)
Croak Hunter (2pts)
Professor Victor Pendrake (2pts)
Thrullg (3pts)
Totem Hunter (3pts)



notes: i only have access to a single wrastler, single posse, single spitter, and the witchdoctor and swamp horror wont be out in time.

[Halfhoot]

I'd probably put the second Snapper in the first list on Maelok just for end game fury purposes. The Wrastler will probably end up getting sacrificed to kill something and a single snapper won't fill his fury needs. Not to mention a pair of good boosted shots could finish that off and he'd be on his own.

[SneaklePete]

I'd probably put the second Snapper in the first list on Maelok just for end game fury purposes. The Wrastler will probably end up getting sacrificed to kill something and a single snapper won't fill his fury needs. Not to mention a pair of good boosted shots could finish that off and he'd be on his own.

At the cost of a min squad of Trogs? Could be worth it if you play the Wrastler aggresively. I usually play with the Wrastler way back, chucking gators every turn, so he's doesnt die much. Then again, who doesn't want an extra spiny growth?

[Hoyled]

There both interesting lists. Both have a decent game plan and given your model limitations Ive really only got one suggestion.

Throw Pendrake into the Maelok list. The knock down the beast/ voodo doll the spirit trick is pretty strong vs Hordes and it looks like your guarenteed to be playing Hordes.

[Halfhoot]

At the cost of a min squad of Trogs? Could be worth it if you play the Wrastler aggresively. I usually play with the Wrastler way back, chucking gators every turn, so he's doesnt die much. Then again, who doesn't want an extra spiny growth?

There's no "cost of" I was just talking about moving the Snapper on Wrongeye into Maelok's battlegroup. No other changes.

[drachenfels]

There both interesting lists. Both have a decent game plan and given your model limitations Ive really only got one suggestion.

Throw Pendrake into the Maelok list. The knock down the beast/ voodo doll the spirit trick is pretty strong vs Hordes and it looks like your guarenteed to be playing Hordes.

yes i have always liked the bola/voodo spirit combo, the question is where does it fit into the list? drop the boggs to min? move pendrake over and add a feralgeist? seems like a bit of a drop in power at that point due to a drop in offensive numbers, and fury spent from WE that isnt paying for submerge, spinygrowth, or for hitting things...

I'd probably put the second Snapper in the first list on Maelok just for end game fury purposes. The Wrastler will probably end up getting sacrificed to kill something and a single snapper won't fill his fury needs. Not to mention a pair of good boosted shots could finish that off and he'd be on his own.

i had considered that in the past, and i did try to play around with numbers, but with the double bull on maelock that is only 5 maximum possible growths i can throw out, if that is all he is casting. with the second bull on WE it takes some pressure off and allows maelock to upkeep malidiction, toss 2 out, and still have one for an emergency transfer and buffs the max growths to 7, meaning if there is absolutely no shooting (or no threatening shooting) WE can forgo the submerge and easilly toss out the 6th growth on either maelok or on the wrastler so after the wrastler counters on a heavy any beasts that do come in to take him down (and with his boxes and arm 21 it should take something big to do it) they should be taking sufficient damage to almost knock out an entire spiral on them self on the growths.
in short : WE is better with a bull than maelock is with a second. I don't mind cutting late game, or with this plan with malidiction up Maelock can go stalking to finish beasts and eat them to refuel.

[drachenfels]

ok well this past week i got a trio of games with the maelock list in, won all 3 of them, and oddly enough? his wrastler and snapper never died.

The pressure placed on the opponent with spiny dead posse just creates such a major threat and being so hard to remove (VERY resilient against infantry and damaging against jacks/beasts)
combined with flanking pressure with the bogtroggs just adds somuch wild pressure from out of nowhere that can just catch opponents off guard. (second game was agaisnt a khador opponent with Old Witch who thought she was save, but was still just in 13 of the side edge [across from maelock since i played heavy flank] and they just charged on and one shotted her with a 3man CMA on turn 2)
Also as a bonus instead of my usual breakdown of what happened in games.... ive got something different!

http://blip.tv/drachenfels/warmachin...-35pts-6075393

BAM!! full unedited recording of the battle.
ofcourse im on the left with the Maelock list from above, my opponent is on the right with

System: Hordes
Faction: Circle Orboros
Casters: 1/1
Points: 34/35
Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)

and now that i list it out it seems like he forgot something... either a random wolf or a tree...

Third game was against a troll player that i have alot of experience against, and almost all wins... he was running:

System: Hordes
Faction: Trollblood
Casters: 1/1
Points: 34/35
Jarl Skuld, Devil Of Thornwood (*6pts)
* Troll Axer (6pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
Trollkin Scattergunners (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Scattergunner Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
Trollblood Skinner (2pts)

through the game i lost a single posse, which i immediately brought back to life and continued to live the rest of the game... it was just a spam growth game, get in there, feat up for armor on them and just stand in front of earthborn and a blitzer who had been rear charged by flanking bogtroggs... unfortunately my posse were rolling TERRIBLE damage all day.... i did more damage today with spiny growths off them than their actual attacks! (even the bogtroggs did more damage!) but in the end it was just a grind out game after tieing up his stuff with posse then eating the earthborn with the wrastler, while the blitzer was distracted with posse, then the wrastler ate him aswell. Snapjaw with his tail reach (and spiny growth) kept the scatter gunners mostly occupied and either killing, knocking down, or just being in melee range of them)
And again like the linked game footage, Maelock played VERY safe behind the lines just upkeeping his 2 spells and tossing out spiny growths on things.



So all in all?? i REALLY like single posse growth SPAM with maelock. it just pushes their armor to extreme levels that can dissuade and prevent so much damage while WE&SJ just bring in a second heavy that doesnt need support and can still chomp on things.

BUT that said in the future... i think i may swap the wrastler for the SwampHorror when it comes out, to give maelock that additional range to break out and eat a damaged beast, (and draw the beast into range with the pull)and add in either a geist for random weird stuff (keeping Snapjaw up longer) or for gobbers to toss gas onto the posse so then they are def15, arm20 with nothing else affecting them... (arm 24 in melee on fet turn, def17 on a hill vs shooting/magic)

[drachenfels]

Ok then... was actually in the tournament today, using the 2 lists from above...

Round 1 - Trolls - one long objective in the center of the tabke
both lists had champions, impaler, mauler, and pyre.
he went with a pMadrak list
Went with Barnie - put ironflesh on posse, took dirge of mist every round, Champions failed to hit 90% of the time, and failed to do damage (or much) when they did connect. In return the posse didnt do damage to the champions either... both units were at full strength at the end of the game...
BUT his mauler was in bad positions, got charged by the wrastler who ate big chunks out of it, and with ironflesh up and deathrolling, then being stood up by barniehe lived through the assault. (poor rolling) next turn wrastler finished him.
Tag team of Totem hunter with prey charging, and a croak hunter slammed his pyre troll and downed it in 2 rounds (killed its spirit first round and he didnt have resources to heal it)
Game ended going to time, with all of his beasts dead, all of mine alive, and allot of stuff in the controll area.
No Caster kill
no controll points
he had 28 points of models in the objective (champs, impaler, solos and caster+5)
I had 29 points in the area. (posse, wrastler, turtle, thullg and a croak i think)
Win by single point!

Second game - Khador (spill over from the full warmachine tournie)
Old witch, nyss hunters, great bears, spriggian, valachev, 4 eliminator assassins (different player from above) and widowmakers
this game i saw only the spriggan and bears as a real threat so i decided to tank out with Maelock.
objective was 2 area circles, must control far area, and have caster in one of the 2 areas.
there was a river going straight down the center of the table from my deployment to his slightly off center
I did my usual deploy maelock to the side, possee centered from him, and everything else behind, and troggs in ambush.
He was smart and didnt put the witch to close to the edge (not in charge range) so ambush kill was out. but he did let his eliminators get to close. his nyss ran and were all up in his objective.
I went with the usual spam of armor on the posse, and charged all up into the nyss and ambushed and took out 3 out of 4 eliminators.
his turn he put up avatar, sent the witch through 5 troggs, teleported back to center, and cast some other spells sittign on no armor. Nyss declared charges, got more bodies in, then greatbears came in and smashed a bit more. Total killed 2 posse, and all but 1 trogg.
Well all or nothing now. no upkeeps, res 2 posse both with line to the witch, pop feat. posse take cold blood, charge stuff, and with the rerolls 2 of them cut the old witches head off.
Win 2

Game 3 - Legion
he went with eVayle - Angelus, Typhon, scythean, shredder, 6legionares, forsaken, death stalker
I went with Barnie since his option of vayle made maelock allot less useful (due to purification)
game had just 2 square areas, gotta control the furthest.
played the usual slow play with swamp pits at first, but then he ran his infantry forward. I countered and launched the posse into them, and with a shot from the spitter they were all dead and i was infront of his swuare in the way. barnie sat in swamps and ironfleshed the posse afterwards. set my beasts into counter range.
he had no options so his scythean went into the posse, killed 2 injured 1 (due to missing), angelus with refuge came in killed a third, and his typhon went in to spray against the totem hunter (who had previously ganked the death stalker) a posse member and a croak... but he was in the reach of a posse member, and nothing within half inch, so couldnt do anything...
My turn, barnie poped feat (typhon had admonition on it), charged typhon who couldnt move, and chopped all of his heads off, then put a free swamp between himself and vayle, wrastler went into the scythean, did poor damage leaving it alive. posse activated killed the shredder with 1, finished the scythean, and with cold blooded slammed some damage on the angelus. and the totem hunter moved and leaped and stabbed the forsaken (who was gorged on fury)
his next turn had ot much left, angelus stabbed and killed a posse, then vayle feated, purified, grippe barnie, threw a free and then boosted her aoe at barnie, but only did 9 damage which he transfered to a turtle, then paid for a second one and boosted stuff with a second aoe and only did a few damage. the game was escentially over. Totem hunter walked up, then jumped, and stabbed vayle in the face, followed by a corak, and some other random stuff to end the game.
Win #3

final round... Circle - Same player as above
his options were kromac or pBaldur
i went with maelock assuming to use the same tactic from before
he did, go with kromac, who this time had some druids to accompany him.
this game went a bit quicker than before with him killing 3 posse, but the 2 left alive could see kromac, again feated, rezzed 2, charged, gettign 4 into contact with him, again cold blooded just ate his face.
4-0 win

so... in summation - they work. it was good against this field, and are flexible enough to work against warmachine as well.
and for prize got my gold coin, and a battle engine.... i wish there was a gator engine now... but a Khador one to be painted pink will do.