Rok did drop a POW 16 attack from the Carnivean, and with it the second Open Fist. He traded Spiny Growth for Primal, making him a very different kind of beast. He's very solid, but he's not a beast that protects others as our Carnivean is. He's much more of a short range beat stick. That's very cool but balances him out to being Solid and maybe slightly better than the Carnivean, but not Incredibly Better. The +1 MAT/RAT is very nice though, this is a truism.
On a weird note I always forget the Carnivean's base MAT/RAT are so low because I normally have it under Rapport!
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03-28-2012, 02:15 PM #41Conqueror
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03-28-2012, 02:22 PM #42Conqueror
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lol Rhyas lol!
You guys are forgetting Rok is Fury 5. So he essentially has 7 attacks at POW 18 + the POW14 Spray.
Your right though Joseph, he is a different kind of beast, and although I do think his better it's really only because of the RAT/MAT that our Carnivean is missing.
Originally Posted by lastspartacus
I thought a Willbreaker would break the will of the enemy army... offensively.
Now I see it will break the will of the opposing player by being broken
Originally Posted by VOLK
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03-28-2012, 02:25 PM #43Destroyer of Worlds
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how is he getting seven pow 18 attacks with five fury, and why aren't you including his meaty fist?
initial+5 fury = 6Last edited by alchahest; 03-28-2012 at 02:28 PM.
"Thyra is really just a worse version of Rhyas is what it comes down to." - Soulblighter
My Rhyas has killed: Kromac, pButcher, pVlad, Reznik, pMorghul, Feral Warpwolf, Titan Gladiator, Megalith
My Grotesques have killed: Juggernauts, Kodiaks, Kayazy Assassins, Daughters of the Flame, The WDS, Revenger, pVlad
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03-28-2012, 02:34 PM #44Conqueror
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Totally correct. It's 6 POW 18 attacks and one measly 16. Originally Posted by alchahest
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03-28-2012, 02:35 PM #45Conqueror
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I'm sorry I must have been haxing, you guys have got it right.
Originally Posted by lastspartacus
I thought a Willbreaker would break the will of the enemy army... offensively.
Now I see it will break the will of the opposing player by being broken Originally Posted by VOLK
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03-28-2012, 02:46 PM #46Destroyer of Worlds
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so it's one pow 18 more than a carnviean gets, one pow 16 less, a shorter spray, no eyeless sight, pathfinder, and importantly, a shorter charge with less range on it's assault. Rok is a beatstick, definitely. the carnivean is a beast of angles and threat range. and on top of that it is nearly as good as rok at beatsticking.
"Thyra is really just a worse version of Rhyas is what it comes down to." - Soulblighter
My Rhyas has killed: Kromac, pButcher, pVlad, Reznik, pMorghul, Feral Warpwolf, Titan Gladiator, Megalith
My Grotesques have killed: Juggernauts, Kodiaks, Kayazy Assassins, Daughters of the Flame, The WDS, Revenger, pVlad
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03-28-2012, 02:48 PM #47Conqueror
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@ alcahest
Its really apples and oranges. Rok will kill more things in a game, most likely, but being a 12/18 instead of the Carnivean 11/20 means it may not survive a second wave as easily. Again, apples and oranges.
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03-28-2012, 06:01 PM #48Destroyer of Worlds
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You know that all of those are downgrades right? Originally Posted by FeralJim
As in Rok is worse than a Carnivean because of these changes. It's the other changes +1 MAT/RAT/FURY and the Berserk+Snacking interaction (ability to stop Berserk and keep it from being a disadvantage), that even allow Rok to possibly be considered 11pts.Avatar of My Little Epic Feora-pony by LancerAdvanced, used with permission.
GaiaCyriss may not harm life or, through inaction, allow life to come to harm.
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03-28-2012, 06:22 PM #49Destroyer of Worlds
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oh I know - I'm just trying to understand the previous comparison. they're really quite different models, so the "other faction got a carnivean but better" was bizarre to me. Originally Posted by JosephKerr
"Thyra is really just a worse version of Rhyas is what it comes down to." - Soulblighter
My Rhyas has killed: Kromac, pButcher, pVlad, Reznik, pMorghul, Feral Warpwolf, Titan Gladiator, Megalith
My Grotesques have killed: Juggernauts, Kodiaks, Kayazy Assassins, Daughters of the Flame, The WDS, Revenger, pVlad
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03-28-2012, 07:43 PM #50Conqueror
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@ alcahest
It's cool. I know exactly where you're coming from.
For me, the Carnivean only ever sees play if I have at least one other target I want to receive Spiny Growth every turn. If there are two such targets it becomes much easier to justify. When the Suck comes out I think there will be kind of a reevaluation of the Carniveans value since it'll allow low fury Warlocks the ability to get two instances of Spiny Growth out every turn without hampering their plans. In my proxied play tests that's proven to be the case.
I normally find the Higher melee output, Spray, and Spiny Growth to be worth two points over Reach and anti Tough technology on the Scythean, just not in every case.
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