The Wraith Engine. To be, or Not to be.

[Drzombieface]

I've come to a standstill. I'm talking about whether or not to buy a Wraith Engine.

The WE is the only model in Cryx I don't own, and while I like the model, and want to get it, the price tag combined with how little I see Battle Engines, or Wraith Engines specifically, played is sort of a disincentive.
After making lists out of boredom I've started to try and incorporate it into lists, but I just can't seem to find a place for it outside of 75+ without cramming it in. I just end up wanting something like a Seether instead.

My sudden motivation for wanting one is that while I have over 400 points of Cryx, there's still something I don't have in the Wraith Engine.


I'd like to get the opinion of players who already own a Wraith Engine, or two, so I can get a better grasp of whether it would be worth the investment or not, especially with The Kraken on the way.

[Trollz]

The wraith engine can be good, but mostly, I find it awkward. I like running it with pSkarre, but that's because she doesn't really have any confclict with it and she can make up for its durability weakness. Most casters find conflict with it's soul taking abilities, which makes it awkward for cryx. It also takes up 9 points...for an awkward huge solo undead model... which we could fill with, IMO, better stuff. I enjoy the model, and find myself taking it for fun... but I haven't really had fun with it if it's not with pSkarre and one time I used it with pGaspy.

[Warlordtheft]

FIelding it is a pain as you need to have souls to make it work to its best performance. So make sure it is one of the few pieces that use souls in the army. You'll also have some issues with soul collection if your opponent doesn't have that many models with souls--especially at the 35point an below level (below 35points this model is almost impossible to fit in IMHO).

What I think are some of the points that get missed: Keep necrotechs nearby, they can repair it. Incorporeal, when used properly, can really make this unit get to where it is needed. Black spot, and other debuffs on the target unit really make this unit shine. And the threat range is rather large and extremely useful when incorporeal. To me this model takes the place of one of my units rather than affecting my battle group. I say this cause most warcasters can manage 2 heavies and a couple of light's pretty easily. Any more than that and they run out of focus-so you can look at it as something that doesn't need focus but does have the power of a heavy.



Reasons to get it:It is a neat and impressive model when painted. And if your a completist like me (I only play cryx and have 1 of everything currently it, it is not that bad to have.

Reasons not to get it:
Cost. $ wise it is expensive. It is the equivalent of buying two units or about 3 helljacks.

[Drzombieface]

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, I'm a completist as well, but the biggest things keeping me from the Wraith Engine were:
1. When would I ever use it?
2. Where would I put it?
3. Should I not get groceries for a week to buy it?

I do have at least one of every Cryx model minus the WE, some doubles/triples. I might just get it to fill my urges, but my biggest worry is that I get in 1 game with it and then it sits on a shelf.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

I'm getting it mainly because I think it will be a great model to paint. I'll field it in leagues (where people experiment more) and if I enjoy it I may put it in a 2nd list for SR.

[Drzombieface]

I'm getting it mainly because I think it will be a great model to paint. I'll field it in leagues (where people experiment more) and if I enjoy it I may put it in a 2nd list for SR.

Yeah, that's why I wanted it at first, cuz it looks cool. But then after researching and not seeing Battle Engines in general not played much, I was kinda turned away from the idea of getting one. My next visit to the LGS this week will probably be the deciding factor, since they still have some Wraith Engines in stock.

[Barrynstein]

It is a fun model to paint, but needs help being delivered to the infantry it so desperately needs to be effective. Perhaps it would work better with a collosal on the opposite side of the board. Make the opponent choose which Giant based model to be destroyed by.

[PG_Draxos]

I like it. It's a warjack effectivly that is not tied to your focus pool which I find is something that Cryx casters can have a problem with. I do want to point out that if you have it in your list it can be the ONLY thing that collects souls in your list otherwise it is in trouble. pSkarre and pGaspy are the big ones who like it if you ask me..

[Drzombieface]

I like it. It's a warjack effectivly that is not tied to your focus pool which I find is something that Cryx casters can have a problem with. I do want to point out that if you have it in your list it can be the ONLY thing that collects souls in your list otherwise it is in trouble. pSkarre and pGaspy are the big ones who like it if you ask me..

pGaspy is by far my most played caster, so fitting the Wraith in a list would probably be pretty easy. I really don't run a ton of things that collect souls other than my caster, the skarlock, maybe the occasional pistol wraith, and the Withershadow Combine. I've been considering running on the opposite flank of the Deathjack, since I play the DJ alot more than I used to. Both would be pretty self sufficient, and the DJ could be deployed against the side heavier on heavy infantry or jacks, and the Wraith could be moved to oppose an infantry flank. The Battle Engines can be countered after being deployed, since they're deployed first, and that could cause an issue if he needs to move to an opposite flank with that 120mm base trying to get past your army, but that could also be somewhat dealt with by Wraith Walker. Idk.

[Drzombieface]

I like it. It's a warjack effectivly that is not tied to your focus pool which I find is something that Cryx casters can have a problem with. I do want to point out that if you have it in your list it can be the ONLY thing that collects souls in your list otherwise it is in trouble. pSkarre and pGaspy are the big ones who like it if you ask me..

Not being tied to the focus pool is both a blessing and a curse. While it doesn't drain on my caster's focus for allocation at all, if it were a warjack like the Harrower, which is already self sufficient, it could still benefit from that focus pool if it needed the extra boosting.

[Barrynstein]

the Wraith could be moved to oppose an infantry flank. The Battle Engines can be countered after being deployed, since they're deployed first, and that could cause an issue if he needs to move to an opposite flank with that 120mm base trying to get past your army, but that could also be somewhat dealt with by Wraith Walker. Idk.

This is the battle engines biggest flaw, specially if you are the only one using one and most importantly if you are only using one. I can see a scenario that using two could cause a bit of consternation, but in all the games I've played it is too easily countered and than bang giant whole in your front line.

[SpiderBite]

I own one because when the concept art was released, I said I was going to get one, even if it was a bucket of fail. (same deal for the unicorn-squid!)
My take: Its a huge mutant 'tarded Bane wannabe. Its fun for shiggles play, useless for competitive play.
Fun fact:
Alexia Ciannor can take control of your Wraith Engine. . . good times.

[usbprime]

I enjoy the wraith engine......i use it with a few casters......it sits best in my pSkarre list, and if i can plan it right, i've used it a few times to get caster assassinations off during her feat turn (3 dice to hit, and loaded with souls it has to potential to make 5 attacks.......even if 1 misses, the other 4 will easily kill any caster in the game) One of my friends was arguing with me that battle engines are nearly useless as for 9 points you can get a much better jack/beast (seethers are easily better than a wraith engine, on paper) but my argument was that you can find solos for 4 points that a 4 point jack/beast will also be better than that solo......but i'd never trade tartersauce for a deathripper in a list full of banes. It's very situational, and once you've played it a few times, you'll quickly learn what it's good for. The only caster i struggle with, is Terminus.......the thought of a battle engine with tough is SICK!......but losing souls for termy when the wraith is getting them.......not good.

[Drzombieface]

I own one because when the concept art was released, I said I was going to get one, even if it was a bucket of fail. (same deal for the unicorn-squid!)
My take: Its a huge mutant 'tarded Bane wannabe. Its fun for shiggles play, useless for competitive play.
Fun fact:
Alexia Ciannor can take control of your Wraith Engine. . . good times.

No, Battle Engines aren't warrior models, Alexia's Dominate Undead only works on warriors.

[Sanctjud]

No, Battle Engines aren't warrior models, Alexia's Dominate Undead only works on warriors.

Read Dominate Dead again. It works on the Wraith Engine.

[Drzombieface]

Read Dominate Dead again. It works on the Wraith Engine.

How would it work on the Wraith Engine? It specifies warrior model, can't recall if it includes non- character or not. Battle Engines aren't warrior models. It's Undead, yes, but a warrior model, no.

[lolololage]

How would it work on the Wraith Engine? It specifies warrior model, can't recall if it includes non- character or not. Battle Engines aren't warrior models. It's Undead, yes, but a warrior model, no.

Evidently you didnt go and read the spell again.

[Sanctjud]

Evidently you didnt go and read the spell again.

Agreed...I wished you did more with that gem
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Only way I would get a Wraith Engine is if I got it the way Obeisance did...a package error upon ordering a Machine Wraith and paying $13.99 for it.

[usbprime]

Only way I would get a Wraith Engine is if I got it the way Obeisance did...a package error upon ordering a Machine Wraith and paying $13.99 for it.

BWAHAHAHA that's awesome......trumps my "Bought a package of Cataphract Arcuuri and in the box was a full unit of praetorian swordsmen."

[Drzombieface]

BWAHAHAHA that's awesome......trumps my "Bought a package of Cataphract Arcuuri and in the box was a full unit of praetorian swordsmen."

Definitely as funny as the Bloodgorger i got in a blister, store shelf mind you, and he was melted in a solid metal puddle from the waist down. I named him Puddles, and he has a special place in my heart.

[Drzombieface]

Evidently you didnt go and read the spell again.

I don't have immediate access to the FoW: Mercs book, so no, I didn't read it. I'm just going by what editors on the Battle College have put there. If it doesn't care if the target isn't a warrior model, so be it. Take it up with them.

The moral of the story is kill Alexia. Arc Breath of Corruption. Still not dead? Breath of Corruption again. Oh darn, she's a pile of bubbling goop now (Or really any other AoE spell we have access to). We have access to so many ways of dealing with a single threat like Alexia that she's almost not even worth mentioning. If you let her live long enough to do that, or get close enough to your caster to where AD takes effect, you've done something horribly wrong. Don't let some little girl make a mockery of the necromantic arts with her silly Risen.

[Sanctjud]

Don't use battle college. Simple. You can not seriously use it as a shield when rules issues get to the point of "read it".
In addition, Alexia is not 'that' fragile, and it is not so much that she can take it over, more like a slap in the face she could. You are also suggesting it go with pGaspy, not a great combo IMO. pGaspy wants options that hit accurately, I'd personally not rely on soul boosting.

Random note, though the WE may hit hard, it is not a 'heavy' in the relation to jack...the lack of power attacks being one reason.

Personally, I only see the WE being used with the Dennys, pSkarre, and Scaverous...mainly diue to their blanket buff/debuffs.
I will be experimenting with two with eDenny.....and 30 Bane knights. :3

[Kuwanger23]

The WE is the only model in Cryx I don't own

I hear ya on that one. And it will remain that way for me. I think it is by far the worst model battle engine wise in both warmachine hordes. I own the menoth one and am getting a cygnar, troll, and circle one for my other factions. I base my purchase on how cool the model looks. Then its rules come second. Even if I don't think it is that "good" I will play it and have fun with it. I absolutely loath the wraith engine. The model is hideous. The rules are lack luster. And it doesn't remind me of something that should be called an engine. I was really hoping for something else. Perhaps the next one will be better. Who knows?

[Drzombieface]

I hear ya on that one. And it will remain that way for me. I think it is by far the worst model battle engine wise in both warmachine hordes. I own the menoth one and am getting a cygnar, troll, and circle one for my other factions. I base my purchase on how cool the model looks. Then its rules come second. Even if I don't think it is that "good" I will play it and have fun with it. I absolutely loath the wraith engine. The model is hideous. The rules are lack luster. And it doesn't remind me of something that should be called an engine. I was really hoping for something else. Perhaps the next one will be better. Who knows?

I actually kind of like the model, but its rules/stats compared to our top tier warjacks is why I haven't gotten it

I may end up getting it just to test out, if anything, and if sits on a shelf, all the more reason to paint it and keep it from being an eyesore in a display case.

[Drzombieface]

Don't use battle college. Simple. You can not seriously use it as a shield when rules issues get to the point of "read it".
In addition, Alexia is not 'that' fragile, and it is not so much that she can take it over, more like a slap in the face she could. You are also suggesting it go with pGaspy, not a great combo IMO. pGaspy wants options that hit accurately, I'd personally not rely on soul boosting.

Random note, though the WE may hit hard, it is not a 'heavy' in the relation to jack...the lack of power attacks being one reason.

Personally, I only see the WE being used with the Dennys, pSkarre, and Scaverous...mainly diue to their blanket buff/debuffs.
I will be experimenting with two with eDenny.....and 30 Bane knights. :3

pAsphyxious can still apply debuffs to an enemy model/unit on the WE's flank, and Scything Touch can be cycled through the turn over to the WE if needed (through upkeep, cast, and then skarlock), making it an effective P+S 19, he can't blanket, but he doesn't really need to. Being MAT 7 lets it hit reliably, not everything needs to be as good at swinging weapons as The Butcher to hit accurately. It doesn't hit as reliably as a Seether, but it's still got a good mat score. It could man-handle a light warjack with relative ease, and maybe a heavy, given it has collected souls for extra attacks, as well. When considering its collection range, it shouldn't be that hard.

pAsphyxious generally won't get getting souls till the game's gone on long enough for him to get in the mix, so the WE's soul collection isn't a problem, unless it survives that long. He's also my most played caster, so I would be able to work in the WE with relative ease.

It's not like I'm trying to defend the WE, it's the only model in Cryx I don't own for a reason, but it can still have its uses if played well. I'd without a doubt bring one in 75-100 points every time, but in 35-50, not as much. Rare occasion.

[Jbradlyn]

I am curious, have any of the developers or anyone at PP weighed in on this thing? It just has so many flaws and is widely regarded as the worst Engine of them all. Anyone know?

[Drzombieface]

I am curious, have any of the developers or anyone at PP weighed in on this thing? It just has so many flaws and is widely regarded as the worst Engine of them all. Anyone know?

The general consensus of BE's is that really they're all pretty bad, with some rare exceptions. My personal opinion is that they're all a flop.

[Sanctjud]

I just think it's a mistake to refer to the WE as a 'heavy'.
A heavy hitter? Maybe.
But due to the lack of power attacks, I am hesitant to call it a meaningful 'heavy'.

It does not replace Warjacks, it is something entirely different.
_________________________________________________

pAsphyxious can still apply debuffs to an enemy model/unit on the WE's flank, and Scything Touch can be cycled through the turn over to the WE if needed (through upkeep, cast, and then skarlock), making it an effective P+S 19, he can't blanket, but he doesn't really need to. Being MAT 7 lets it hit reliably, not everything needs to be as good at swinging weapons as The Butcher to hit accurately. It doesn't hit as reliably as a Seether, but it's still got a good mat score. It could man-handle a light warjack with relative ease, and maybe a heavy, given it has collected souls for extra attacks, as well. When considering its collection range, it shouldn't be that hard.

I know pGaspy can debuff.
I know pGaspy can cycle Scything touch.
It has nothing to do with the WE hitting more accurately.

As for Mat7, I don't lift an eye until it's mat 8 or readily boostable.
With a caster that can put a spot +5 to damage rolls, I'd think everything in the list should concentrate on hitting...but ofc it's your list

"It shouldn't be that hard." I wish I could be as confident as you, I really do. No joking/no sarcasm.

pAsphyxious generally won't get getting souls till the game's gone on long enough for him to get in the mix, so the WE's soul collection isn't a problem, unless it survives that long. He's also my most played caster, so I would be able to work in the WE with relative ease.

Um... I never said pGaspy 'wanted' or 'needed' souls. Nor have I said it was an issue with pGaspy, my issue with soul collection is if it RELIES on it.
I don't understand the last portion though. pGaspy is my most played caster as well.... I think it's impossible to fit in the WE in my 35-50 point lists, as you describe a bit in the below portion.

It's not like I'm trying to defend the WE, it's the only model in Cryx I don't own for a reason, but it can still have its uses if played well. I'd without a doubt bring one in 75-100 points every time, but in 35-50, not as much. Rare occasion.

I dunno, maybe at 100, but even at 75 I feel it's hard to justify, esp. with a limited number of casters that don't mind it being in the list.

The general consensus of BE's is that really they're all pretty bad, with some rare exceptions. My personal opinion is that they're all a flop.

Amen.

[Drzombieface]

"It shouldn't be that hard." I wish I could be as confident as you, I really do. No joking/no sarcasm

It mostly comes from knowing Gaspy so well. Out of the W/D/L in my sig, about half of those games were games in which I used Asphyxious (both incarnations), and about half of that again where I used pAsphyxious. I'm also quite fond/use to running extremely obscure lists and combos, mostly to keep everything and anything inside my comfort zone when playing Gaspy, like scenarios/ limited lists, etc..., which is why I'm considering making a shirt that says "I had enough balls to run a Tier 4 eGaspy list and all I got was this lousy t- shirt."

[Drzombieface]

It mostly stems from knowing Gaspy so well. Out of the W/D/L in my sig, about half of those games were games in which I used Asphyxious (both incarnations), and about half of that again where I used pAsphyxious. I'm also quite fond/use to running extremely obscure lists and combos, mostly to keep everything and anything inside my comfort zone when playing Gaspy, like scenarios/ limited lists, etc..., which is why I'm considering making a shirt that says "I had enough balls to run a Tier 4 eGaspy list and all I got was this lousy t- shirt."

My confidence is more of a front, stemming from/caused by not really caring if I win or lose. Sure, winning is nice, but you don't learn as much under normal circumstances. My aim is to enjoy playing the game, if I win, cool, good for me, if I lose, I have the opportunity to learn why and improve upon those weaknesses. And if I get to have fun while playing a silly list, on top of not doing horrible, I give myself a pat on the back. If I do the same and get a win out of it, but my opponent had fun as well? Day made

[PG_Draxos]

The general consensus of BE's is that really they're all pretty bad, with some rare exceptions. My personal opinion is that they're all a flop.

Wait really?

[Sanctjud]

Wait really?

Ya, rly.
Throw out the Battle Engines, bring me the Bane Knight UA...... :-/

[Rukus]

I bought the WE for the hell of it, there aren't many Cryx models I don't own at this point. I'm trying to figure out which list I'm going to work with him, I'm thinking Gaspy, or P Denny.

[mcdermott]

Khadors is solid.

[Kuwanger23]

So is rets and cygnars. But I still don't know about them. I certainly would own a cryx one if I can try to convince myself to like the model. It is the only damn model I don't own!

[usbprime]

Theorymachine all you want......at my local group, everyone was in concensus that the wraith was crap (i'll admit i was part of that group) but my loving wife, bought me one for x-mas, and i decided to try it out.......first game......it assassinated my opponent. ok i'll try it again, maybe that was a fluke.....new caster.....no chance for assasination, but i move it up into melee range with a 7-8 models, kill a few, throw out a few clouds to protect it, and the rest of my army follows up to annihilate everything within the wraith engine's "Dark Shroud area." Now i'm to the point that when i field it in my local group, it's the first thing that's targetted.....i can have that and Deathjack sitting equadistant from my opponent, and they'll still kill the wraith first every time. I've changed my tune, and so have alot of players in our group. we see at least 3 battle engines in regular play (and not even the arguably top 3 Khadors, Menoths and Ret's) Love it or hate it, i don't care......but don't trash it till you try it is what i like to say.

[Murkhadh]

Wraith engine gets my vote for worst BE as well.

incorporeal isn't so great when you still have to find a place to put that big 5 inch base down. Its pretty easy to clog up an area with spread out models, let it kill a few things then kill it the next turn.

Rets is okay, khadors is okay. The engines that are really good are the ones that can boost. Menoths and Cygnars are the top two imo.

[Drzombieface]

I bought the WE for the hell of it, there aren't many Cryx models I don't own at this point. I'm trying to figure out which list I'm going to work with him, I'm thinking Gaspy, or P Denny.

That's really the only reason I considered the WE at all. Once I have it I'll have at least 1 of every Cryx model.

[Drzombieface]

Wraith engine gets my vote for worst BE as well.

incorporeal isn't so great when you still have to find a place to put that big 5 inch base down. Its pretty easy to clog up an area with spread out models, let it kill a few things then kill it the next turn.

Rets is okay, khadors is okay. The engines that are really good are the ones that can boost. Menoths and Cygnars are the top two imo.

The Wraith Engine can boost rolls and get extra attacks, it just requires souls to do so, just like Cygnar's needs to be slapped to get angry to be able to boost, and Menoth's needs to cut its wrists to boost. Incorporeal is not just for movement, but once you pop Wraith Walker it's ARM 20, good for avoiding non magic shooting, and good for resisting damage from magic weapons/spells.

I can obviously think of uses for it, but that's coming from the mind of a Cryx player who plays Cephalyx and gets better results from them than Bane Knights, so obviously I'm gonna figure out at least SOMEthing wacky/useful to do with it.

[Drzombieface]

Ya, rly.
Throw out the Battle Engines, bring me the Bane Knight UA...... :-/

I would literally kill for a Bane Knight UA, anything to make them worth being more points than Bane Thralls. Unless the Knight UA is 3 points as well, then no thank you.