elPlagues Iron Lich Overseer Thoughts

[Sanctjud]

You should write reviews because you like the model and the game.
It is the internet, and so, the naysayers and haters exist. If your resolve is great, you can enjoy the fruits of your labors and get gems here or there from some posters.

Blasphemous, but I used to be a champion of the Chaos Space Marine Possessed back when I still played Warhammer. Had a whole threat "The Glass Half Full" on the subject in the 40K Online Forum. It was fun, and i'd focus on the positive aspects.

I think there is nothing wrong with being questioned about your experiences more specifically, it is mainly due to us not being in your meta or in your games, that some are suspicious or just honestly curious.
I encourage you to continue noting your experiences, there are thick skulls on the internet, I myself am one too, but the reactions of random ppl on the internet is not something to really mind or get bothered over IMO. Just ignore them and focus on those that support or expand your ideas.

[PG_Sobek]

As do most, when considering that you're posting experiences with figures that are not internet popular, and hence why I'll discontinue writing any more reviews, since they're not up to par.

No, keep posting opinions and reviews. All the different views on a single model give them a more details, and well rounded set of information. Just try not to take it personally, or write off a differing opinion/conclusion, just because the person presenting it doesn't do it with the length, detail, data that you'd like to see. Thats all.

[Steel]

I don't post much, but have lurked for quite some time. For the record, I enjoyed the OP and this has prompted me take another look at the ILO as I really like the model. I appreciate your posts eP, this one and the others you have recently made. While some of the information may be available elsewhere, I like hearing others' experience with some of the more fringe models. I think we'd all agree that there are tier 1 models that will be superior on a points basis, I don't know that that's the point of this type of thread (the OP). Instead, it's an discussion of how the tier 2 models can be fun/interesting/useful to play.

[elplagUe]

Questions and criticism are fine.

Telling someone they lack understanding because I don't play in the same meta as someone over 3,000 miles away is ridiculous and presumptuous.

It's not a big deal, my panties aren't in a bunch... it's just ridiculous.

Anyway, in my completely misunderstanding mind, here are my caster breakdowns:

Mortenebra - Never. She offers entirely too much to her battle group to bother with the ILO on any level.
pDeneghra - Her debuffs make everything better. Being focus efficient also helps. I DON'T use the ILO with her on a fluff level, sticking to Sirens because IDK I can be a fluff nerd. All of her worthwhile spells don't mess with Battlegroup, so he can be a viable option. I'm interested in running an ILO + Seether with her, as a nice finisher that is focus efficient and allows denny to keep focus after "pop & drop."
eDeneghra - Similar to eDenny. I've only tried it a handful of times, but I see some advantage to an ILO + Leviathan. He hits very easily when she pops feat, with marked for death, etc. It lets denny focus on Nightmare/nodes. Then again, I haven't tested enough, and I like more infantry with her.
pGoreshade - Awesome. Lets me keep running my Reaper at maximum damage output if fighting living models. Secondly, he likes to keep his focus for himself, and the quantity of banes is makes shadowmancer a moot point. Finally, Goreshade doesn't compete for souls in any really large capacity, so he's a good addition that helps keep goreshade efficient. I like him BETTER then the warwitch for his survivability in a goreshade list.
eGoreshade - Pretty much the same as above. I like a Desecrator with eGoreshade, however. I play alot of banes with eGoreshade so the affinity comes into play. I love phantom hunter, but it allows Goreshade to camp some focus with all of his upkeeps. The Desecrator gets 1 initial, 1 from the banes and 1 from the ILO or a boost, so critting can happen but its nothing to rely on.
Terminus - He competes for souls, so I haven't messed with this.
Venethrax - He competes for souls also.
Coven - They have enough focus to run helljacks efficiently, so I tend to run WWS with them. I also really like bouncing infernal machine amongst reach jacks, so the marshal ability does not help this caster one bit.
pSkarre - Obvious synergy involves Guidance and the feat, all of which is not negated by the marshalling ability. Lets Skarre focus on camping and casting guidance/bloodrains. I like the Reaper here also, as you don't have to boost the initial to hit with the driver to trigger sustained, as DG takes care of that for you. The feat also boosts the ILO to a reach POW18, and arm 21 so very solid.
eSkarre - A mixed bag at best. You'll benefit from the feat but not perdition movement or admonition. Her death ward can still effect your marshalled jack, as can her feat. I again favor the reaper here in testing, because it lets her keep more focus for critical turns where cutting is not an option for upkeeps. Also, he can still trigger the infinite loop, and a nice bit of synergy is to pull a model into the reaper and within 2" of the ILO to net the soul, giving boosts to the damage roll to ensure a kill and trigger more black spot attacks.
Scaverous - Decent synergy giving a boosted magical attack roll to the ILO on feat turn. You can use a soul to boost the damage, and hopefully get a soul back for your efforts. I like a Reaper here also, as TK effects any model, and scaverous' spell list is marshal friendly. His debuffs help the reaper hit, and while he himself collects souls it is not a focus of his abilities itself.
pGaspy - Oddly enough, I really like a Harrower with him. It lets Gaspy keep his focus for spell slinging, and dropping a Scything touched Harrower into a clump of troops is really nasty with soul taker.
eGaspy - I don't run any heavies with eGaspy, but I see some viability with a reach HJ. Caustic mist protects the ILO and Reaper/other reach jack from retaliation. With reach and caustic mists you can essentially create a second area of soul taking in addition to the soul reaper template by locking things up with the ILO and caustic mists all around him, a weird version of the Bane Knight trick but with the boxes provided by the ILO.

[TravR]

eGoreshade - Pretty much the same as above. I like a Desecrator with eGoreshade, however. I play alot of banes with eGoreshade so the affinity comes into play. I love phantom hunter, but it allows Goreshade to camp some focus with all of his upkeeps. The Desecrator gets 1 initial, 1 from the banes and 1 from the ILO or a boost, so critting can happen but its nothing to rely on.

Why no mention of the feat. This had seemed one of the more ideal casters I thought for the ILO as you can play your ILO more aggressively. Turn before you feat run him up near some place you know your going to kill at least 3 things, fill him with souls. Then let loose your jack burning your jack marshall point and 3 souls. If your ILO dies bring him back next turn with the feat. You will have one turn your jack is autonomous but after that he should be back in the fold. The one turn loss sucks but it might be made up for with the massive damage the turn before.

[Vex]

If your ILO dies bring him back next turn with the feat. You will have one turn your jack is autonomous but after that he should be back in the fold. The one turn loss sucks but it might be made up for with the massive damage the turn before.

I don't think getting the 'jack back under control by the ILO works the way that you think it does.

Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "...'jack marshals can begin the game controlling warjacks."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "If a 'jack marshal is removed from the table, his warjacks become autonomous..."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "An autonomous warjack acts normally but cannot be marshaled..."
Prime MK2 - Page 80: "...a 'jack marshal who does not already control his limit of warjacks, can take control of an autonomous friendly faction warjack. To do this be must end his movement in base-to-base contact with the autonomous warjack and forfeit his action..."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "The warjack must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells on the turn it becomes controlled."

[TravR]

I don't think getting the 'jack back under control by the ILO works the way that you think it does.

Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "...'jack marshals can begin the game controlling warjacks."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "If a 'jack marshal is removed from the table, his warjacks become autonomous..."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "An autonomous warjack acts normally but cannot be marshaled..."
Prime MK2 - Page 80: "...a 'jack marshal who does not already control his limit of warjacks, can take control of an autonomous friendly faction warjack. To do this be must end his movement in base-to-base contact with the autonomous warjack and forfeit his action..."
Prime Mk2 - Page 80: "The warjack must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells on the turn it becomes controlled."

Your right it will come out as two turns lost, one when the ILO comes back and then second when you have to forfeit the activation on the jacks. Probably not worth two turns lost.

[Lamoron]

As do most, when considering that you're posting experiences with figures that are not internet popular, and hence why I'll discontinue writing any more reviews, since they're not up to par.

That's not why I decided to call you out on this. I applaud the decision to champion the models most people consider sub-par, but you said some things that I felt should be addressed.

This forum HAS become diluted. There is minimalist discussion about strategy, and meaning no disrespect to you, but you and I are the only two posting any type of strategy or spotlight discussions.

Take a look at the articles in our stickies, and apologize to the ten first people you missed on that list.

People don't frequent the Cryx forums, and even a guy (Ret) in my gaming club comments on how bad they are because of the lack of updated information, and the lack of information beyond "Moar Banez.".

That sentence takes a dump on everything we do here, and seeing as we have more updated articles than the other faction forums it's also wrong.

The majority of the posts here any more are not as organized or well thought out when compared to legion, specifically. Thundergod has made absolutely excellent breakdowns of everything from range to math to unit selection, etc, and that's just one example.

... did you expect everyone here to agree?

/Lamoron

[Drzombieface]

In one of my most recent games with Scaverous, my Overseer+ his Scavenger buddy took out 4 Man- O- War Shocktroopers, 2 Greylords, Fenris, and 1-2 other random troopers. I do have extremely good luck with models other players consider "bad", like the Cephalyx, but at no point in that game did the ILOverseer ever feel weak to me. It seems like a perfectly capable solo, whether we need him or not. I think Warmachine is about having options, and the ILO is exactly that, another option.

[Sanctjud]

Curious you would use "good luck" as evidence to refute the concerns of 'other players'.


As far as I've seen in the 'positive' reviews...it's not really about what it kills.

[Lamoron]

In one of my most recent games with Scaverous, my Overseer+ his Scavenger buddy took out 4 Man- O- War Shocktroopers, 2 Greylords, Fenris, and 1-2 other random troopers. I do have extremely good luck with models other players consider "bad", like the Cephalyx, but at no point in that game did the ILOverseer ever feel weak to me. It seems like a perfectly capable solo, whether we need him or not. I think Warmachine is about having options, and the ILO is exactly that, another option.

I'd very much like to see a battlereport on that game.

[Bronze]

*sigh*, well that was quite a bit there in between since the beginning of the post. But since I used the ILO last night with a Seether with a crazy setup list, I thought I would post my current thoughts on the solo in this thread since it was started up for such discussion.

Since I had just constructed him and painted him this Thursday, I had to field him in battle. I'm a sucker for every once in a while using elements of our army lists that may or may not work together all that well and trying to get a win out of it. It's satisfying, heh. And, since I am participating in a slow-grow league with a couple of units/models missing to finish faction completion, I am using what is left. Slim pickings.

So last night (and for slow-grow, with little to no restrictions; just 15-35), I decided to go with Scaverous. So as we move into the 25 point level, I decided that I would throw in the ILO Overseer with a Seether, as previously mentioned. In addition to that in the list (for prep last night), the other components were relatively simplistic. A full unit of Croe's Cutthroats, full Knights and Erebus (we did 35 this evening outside the league, but I still wanted practice with the ILO and caster). The Scav. list is missing some severely needed support (including a node), but that's alright, its not for tourney play.

The list that I had been selected against was a good matchup for me. It was Skorne full of low defense, high armor shield walling troops. The first turn the Croe's ran up and from then on 'bushwacked' backwards firing upon warbeasts and shield-wall troops until the knights passed them and took offensive action, just to give a general concept of how the battle played out.

The ILO in all this was safe first turn running forward with the Seether. There were 2 weapon platforms in the back (ADed from theme force) but I just aligned the Overseer behind the Seether such that a direct shot wasn't going to get lucky (and splash damage isn't going to pop the Overseer). I felt as though the Seether was keeping the zone in the scenario defended decently. That's what he was performing for me in that game. The shield-walled unit could come into the circle and face off against the Seether (and eventually it would have to).

Since I was up against a slow moving list, I had potential to put a couple injuries on the units with the Croe's on both sides of the table as I was retreating. Enough so that I would get an occassional soul or two throughout the game. One or two perhaps coming from paingivers. All the while the Seether mainly just held his position and was Stealthed, or kept line of sight blocked to the Overseer while I threw out a darkfire.

What played out throught the game, was devastating without the Overseer, due to a turn of about-facing one side of the board and unloading Croe's Cuthroat shots into models that just couldn't take the abuse from the back without their shields. However, the Seether with 2 souls backing him up, went in and devestated a Gladiator after it came into the crowd to deal with all the infantry threats with 'train wreck' on it (or whatever that animus is named).

So based on that action, it feels to me as though it takes too long, and quite the circumstance to get the additional souls needed for putting that Seether into an amazing destructive force. But a free focus, +free jack drive, +free charge, + free power attack from chain attack, +3 souls I'll agree has some nasty potential. Especially if you can get something such as a 'Feast of the Worms' down on a target in there on my occassion. Unlikely however.

I did at one time consider running my Overseer up next to the shield-walled unit advancing into the zone. Then sending the Seether in, and spending the souls that I'm collecting with the Overseer immediately as I earn them with the kills that I'm making with the Seether. Because the Overseer will take those souls in immediately and the Seether has no problem using them at that moment after he kills on the of the models next to him.

That is the quick way I can see to load up the jack for free. In a situation similar to this concept, I can see myself running the Overseer into a crowd of troops that I'll be removing in order to collect souls (such as in this case in a Scaverous list where I have excarnate moved a bile thrall up the field) and then giving those souls to him; only killing the Overlord in the mix on basically box cars for damage. Freeing the Seether to rampage at a target nearby. However, these are optimal situations, although fun to pull off when you can.

Typically I see our jack getting a soul every game, sure. It isn't that difficult to get a leading unit member on the edge of the 10 inch range. The Overseer won't take a boosted ranged bullet from a jack/beast, but it can survive quite a bit POW 10 gunfire or similar effects. Those are the components that I had gathered through the first game that I played with him yesterday.

Do I see myself taking him over other options in tournament play? No, I don't. Although the thought of taking him with a Leviathan does perk my interest. I can see the desire for stealthing the Levi in the mid-lines and possibly allowing him to get 3 shots on occassion instead of two to soften a target up or take out a solo of interest. The Overseer from what I can tell, will be an interesting model that I'll play on occassion in casual play to break away from the routine lists (and I do that a lot when hanging out with friends locally, heh). They do the same, and it's relaxing to know that you don't have to plan your lists to counter certain threats.