Skorne Buyers Guide

[PG_Blitzer]

Disclaimer: all the advice given in this article comes from my own opinions and play style. A one size fits all style of army composition only works to a certain extent. This guide is meant to help people new to the faction prioritize their purchase selections. The models are selected based on their overall performance in steamroller settings.

• First Purchases:

Your first purchase should be the battle box. pMorghoul is one of our top tier casters, and a very fun caster to play. The Titan Gladiator will be in 90% of your lists, Speed 4 heavies rely on rush to actually make them a threat in the game. While Savages don't make a lot of lists, they are still valid options, especially in Steamroller formats.
The battle box is $49.99, buying the models separately costs $83.96. You are essentially getting two Cyclops Savages for $4.01 with the purchase of the battle box.

• Second Purchases:

Heavy Beasts

Bronzeback Titan: I call him the Elvis of my army, because he's the King. He is arguably the best 10 point heavy in the game. If you want things dead, this is the beast that can do it best.

Molik Karn: offensive and versatile, he doesn't kill things as well as the Bronzeback, but he brings a different dimension to the game. His threat ranges can be insanely huge, he provides fate walker to himself and the caster, which allow hit and run tactics, and he dictates how far up the field your opponent will run their caster. He also dies fairly easily; Molik Karn requires practice to figure out how to best use him, he's not the auto win that some players claim, but he is definitely a game changing beast in the right list.

• Third Purchases:

Units

Paingiver Beast Handlers: now that you have your beasts, let's make them better and add in fury management. I am addicted to this unit; they make it into 95% of my lists. A minimum unit is sufficient for the majority of your lists, but you will eventually want to own a full unit.

Now we need an offensive, single wound unit. This will be either the Nihilators or Praetorian Swordsmen with the UA. One is not necessarily better than the other, as they play slightly different roles. They have the same speed, Nihilators have +1 mat, and Swordsmen have +1 arm. The Nihilators have CMD 7, Reach, Fearless, Tough, and Berserk. The Swordsmen with UA have CMD 10, Ranked attack, Combo Strike, Penetrating Strike, Side Step, two attacks, and once per game Perfect Strike.

I personally find the Praetorian Swordsmen to be more versatile in our faction, because of the CMD 10, as I really like to use these guys for board control. But, personal play style is going to dictate which unit you will most often use.

Here is a link of Swordsmen vs. Nihilators.
http://privateerpressforums.com/show...over-Nihlators
Don't stress too much about this decision, you will eventually own both units. Look them over, pick the one that appeals the most to you, and run with it.

• Fourth Purchases:

Solos

Agonizer: this is the staple Skorne denial piece. This little two point model can be game changing, no arc node, no animi, -2 str, no allocating, can be devastating to your opponents. Buy this guy and run him in every list, until you master him.

Aptimus Marketh: probably the best Caster attachment in hordes. Spell Slave is golden, ask any Cryx player, plus we can upkeep spells if Marketh has soul tokens on him. Of all the models I've suggested so far, this is the guy I use the least. He makes about 40% of my lists, but in the lists I do take him, he plays an extremely crucial role.

• Fifth Purchases:

Light Warbeasts

Cyclops Shaman: this guy allows our armies to be more versatile. He has a pow 12 range 10 ghost shot attack, two inch reach on his melee weapon, can get rid of upkeeps on friendly models, can extend our casters spell ranges by two inches, and can cast the animus of friendly beasts within seven inches of him.

• Sixth Purchases:

Minions

Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew: The perfect one point filler. Thoughtful placement of 5 inch clouds can be a great help in almost any game.

Orin Midwinter: This guy teams up with our agonizer for some very effective denial. No spell casting within 12 inches shuts down druids, mittens, and casters that like to play forward. When not shutting down magic, he can arc lighting into units. He can die easily, and to get the best use of him does take some practice.


Warlocks

Let's take a look at where we are at. We can make a very competitive 35 pt list using what we have.

Master Tormentor Morghoul
Bronzeback Titan
Molik Karn
Titan Gladiator
Aptimus Marketh
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard

What we buy next is going to be dictated by what other casters we are going to play. Skorne has a lot of fun casters that can play very different games (one of the big appeals that brought me into this faction).

The easiest thing for us to do now is to purchase casters that can best utilize the models we currently own.
But wait, you say, I don't want to play just any of Skorne's casters, I want to play the competitive ones. So, what are Skornes most competitive casters? Here is how I would rank them (just a friendly reminder of the disclaimer at the beginning of this thread).

Teir 1: pMorghoul, eMakeda, Xerxis, eHexeris

Now, taking a look at our competitive casters, which ones can best utilize the models we already own? pMorghoul, eMakeda, eHexeris, and to some extent Mordikaar.
While I truly Love Xerxis , he requires completely different models, so I'll cover him last.

eMakeda: this caster is a delivery system. She's the reason the Karn bullet exists. Leash, road to war, and rush gives Karn an 18" initial contact range. When you add in Side Step, that increases the threat to 22 inches. Add her feat into this equation, and you have a 22 inch threat, with 7 boasted pow 15 weapon master attacks, while being immune to free strikes. Just the threat of this will dictate how your opponent plays against you. She has more depth than the Karn bullet, though that's what she's most famous for, and if you want to get really good at her, you will need to spend the time getting to know all her nuances.

Here is a competitive 35 point list for her, using what we now have.

Supreme Archdomina Makeda
Bronzeback Titan
Molik Karn
Titan Gladiator
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard

eHexeris: this caster offers our faction something we have struggled with in the past, high defense infantry removal. In the past, Skorne could get bogged down against mass infantry, now with this caster we have the ability to clear infantry off the table in droves. We'll need to change our list slightly to accommodate his specific abilities, most notable the ability to have one beast used as an Arc Node. For 35 points I'd recommend the Razor Worm.

Here is a thread that discusses our options on what beast to bond as an Arc Node: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...s-Bonded-Beast

We also add in the Extoler Soulward; this allows eHexy to arch spells onto stealthed models.

Lord Arbiter Hexeris
Cyclops Shaman
Razorworm (bonded)
Bronzeback Titan
Titan Gladiator
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Agonizer
Extoler Soulward


Xerxis: Our premier attrition caster, what makes him better than our other attrition casters, is that he also has a very strong end game. He likes to be towards the front of the battle, pressing himself and his army further and further into your opponent. He plays the classic brick and does it better than anyone else, with denial pieces like the Agonizer and Midwinter for support. Xerxis is tricky to play at the 35 pt level; he really shines at 50+

We add several new models to the Xerxis list. The most important addition is the full unit of Cataphract Cetrati, if you don't plan on playing Xerxis then you can probably skip the Cetrati. We also add both Basilisk, the Krea is there to raise def and arm on the approach, and then to lower enemy def once engaged, and the Drake is there to help handle infantry swarms, as Xerxis can get bogged down by mass infantry.

Here is a solid Xerxis list:

Tyrant Xerxis
Basilisk Drake
Basilisk Krea
Bronzeback Titan
Titan Gladiator
Aptimus Marketh
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Agonizer
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor

Defenders ward will start on the Nihilators, and then can move where needed, turn 4 and after you should have DW on Xerxis, as he will be in the middle of the board. The Krea uses her animus, and Xerxis casts it also, to give a hard range counter on the approach. The Gladiator, Bronzeback, and Drake need to run to the sides of the Cetrati, since they will get in the way of Martial Discipline. The agonizer and Midwinter stay in the middle of the board, right behind the Cetrati wall. Marketh is there to cycle Fury, to recast DW or to allow Xerxis the fury to cast Inhospitable Ground.

[PG_Blitzer]

Other Models worth Buying:

Tiberion: Not an auto include, but very solid in the right lists. He doesn't replace the Bronzeback for a beatstick, but he does make an excellent second or third heavy.

Basilisk Drake: Pow 14 boastable spray from a 4 point light beast, works well with any of our casters.

Basilisk Krea: Bring her for the animus; if you don’t have a lot of ranged threats in your Meta, then you can skip her.

Cyclops Brute: Shield Guard nerf hurt this model, but the no knock down animus can be very helpful.

Archidon: Nice utility beast that can threaten a flank, or add some late game threats to the board. I'd recommend just picking up one, two in a list hasn't proven to be overly effective.

Extoller Soulward: hands out magic weapons and eyeless sight. Works well with most of our casters.

Praetorian Ferox: I love this unit; they fill an important role in a lot of my lists, definitely worth getting a full unit.

Tyrant Rhadeim: This model makes me wish we didn’t have character restrictions. He pairs up extremely well with the Ferox, for the +2 mat, and he works well by himself as a threat on a flank.

Tyrant Commander & Standard: This unit will depend on your Meta; if you run into a lot of rough terrain, then they are definitely worth it.


Models worth Proxying to see if they fit your play style:

Cyclops Raider: When the Mamoth comes out, his stock will rise. For now, far strike isn't a big help. I run him from time to time paired up with the Shaman.

Titan Sentry: Very defensive, he trades offense for staying power. I play aggressive, and this guy just doesn’t fit my play style, but I’ve seen him used to great effect by other players. Proxy him a few times and see if he fits your style of play.

Cataphract Arcuarii: This is actually a solid unit, but they need to fit their purpose in a list. They run well with eHexy, pMorghoul, eMakeda, Xerxis, and Mordikaar. That being said, there are always other units that can fill the same role, proxy them and see what you think.

Venator Reivers & Unit Attachment: A very solid ranged unit, unfortunately most all of our casters do nothing for them.

Gatormen Posse: Very solid unit, only problem is they can’t get our in faction buffs. They do run extremely well as an independent unit. If you like this unit, then buy them, you won’t regret it.

Paingiver Task Master: If you get the Gatormen, then you’ll want this guy. He turns the gators into an amazing unit. Just keep him safe, because he’s often targeted early in the game.

Void Spirit: Great with Mordikaar, and can be really good for holding and contesting scenarios; nothing wrong with picking up two of these, and playing around with them.

Hakaar the Destroyer: Works the best with Zaal, he can work with other casters, but I’d only purchase him if you plan on playing Zaal.

Ancestral Guardian: if you are going to play Zaal, buy two or three of these, if not, skip them.

Immortals: I love these guys with Zaal. He’s the only caster that’s worth running them though, if you are going to play Zaal, buy a full unit of immortals.

Razor Worm: Worth buying to run with eHexy, not as useful with other casters.

Totem Hunter: Great flanking threat, something Skorne can struggle with.


Models to Skip:

Titan Cannoneer: the addition of the Raider has helped out the Cannoneer, but not to the point to make him viable in a competative format . I’d rather far strike the Raider, or the Shaman. Nine points is a lot to spend for one pow 15 shot.

Rhinodon: He actually performs worse on the table than on paper. A definite skip, if you disagree with me on this, then you really need to take a better look at our other options.

Tyrant Vorkesh: Gives the Cetratii Spell Ward, horrible for a buffing faction. He does have a very narrow use, but it’s best just to skip him.

Praetorian Karax: If you already own them, they can work for you, but the Swordsmen and Nihilators will out perform them 99% of the time.

Paingiver Bloodrunners: I normally look at the swordsmen first, but this unit does have its role. Unfortunately that role is very specific and they aren’t very flexible. The majority of the time, our swordsmen or nihilators will out perform them.

Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor: If you are going to take Bloodrunners, then you’ll want this solo to boost their mat.

Venator Catapult Crew: If we had something to support them with I’d think about it, for now Skip.

Venator Flayer Cannon Crew: Same as above.

Venator Slinger: If you worked at it, you can find uses for them, but probably better off just to skip these unless you are building a list with them in mind.

Siege Animantarax: Skip for what this model brings to the table, buy him for how cool he looks.

[PG_Blitzer]

Reserved........

[PG_lord tyrant watt]

This is an excellent thread for new comers. Extremely accurate opinions, and I have to agree with almost every single mention here. However, I would like to throw in my 2 cents.

I would have to say that the Sentry is a purchase piece. He adds great depth to the Skorne army. If you keep him in a good position, he's around all game.

The Archidon, Raider, and Tiberion are champs. They are an excellent addition to the Skorne and will be replacing a lot of beasts in a lot of lists. I say purchase.

Finally, while the Razor worm is good with Hexy, I would not put him in the "buy category" with the others. I would put him in the proxy list.

[PG_Blitzer]

Good call on the Razor Worm, I'll drop him down to Proxy.

The Sentry is a very solid beast, and in the right hands can perform well. I have a friend that loves him and runs him to great success, unfortunately I haven't been able to get him to fit with my play style.

[Mifsuud]

Titan Sentry is my choice to bond with eHexy. Durability means he can arc more.

Slingers have potential with a few casters.

Cyclops raider adds a lot of potential variety Skorne was lacking.

New models always take a while to play test. I do agree with the majority of opinions for the current options.

[patisarat]

Thanks for doing this, Blitzer. Excellent write-up, and now we can point new players right here.

[Shuyung]

For what it's worth...i consider the TyComm a must have for The Empire. Passing out an additional 2" of mov. every round as well as pathfinder is very important for our units. And we must not forget Rev. Standing up our knocked down units will keep you from losing the game.

So much of hordes is about position and alignment. Knockdowns and slams end plans. Our units need the TyComm imho.

[Talamare]

Gah, never any love for the artillery pieces. You got it backwards, we dont need to support them, they support us

Lob a few hits into their infantry line to clear up charge lanes for your melee, pick off solos chilling in the back, take out those annoying stealth shooters, etc etc

[PG_carnage4u]

I think its interesting, but I do disagree with some of it. I successful use some of the "avoid models" and won events with them, so they cant be that bad.

[Jazz29]

Awesome write-up! This post does a good job summarizing much of what can be found in the various tacticas and doesn't stray too far into any single model or tactic. I can agree that some of this is contestable to some extent, however the overall flavor of the article is helpful and straightforward. Thanks for putting this together, Blitzer!

[djinniman]

Thanks for this! Good to see different perspectives on building from the Battlebox on up. I am just under 50 points now, which isn't bad since I started in January. Managed to pick up everything used except for the Agonizer and PGBH. Holding out for a used Bronzeback, but now sure how long my willpower will last!

[Jaradakar]

I honestly think Hexeris 2 infantry of choice is Venator Reivers + UA.

I've been playing him more and more lately and honestly I love running this list at 35pts:

Lord Arbiter Hexeris (*6pts)
* Cyclops Savage (5pts)
* Bronzeback Titan (10pts)
* Titan Sentry (9pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Venators Reivers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Venators Reiver Officer & Standard (2pts)
Agonizer (2pts)
Extoler Soulward (2pts)

Reivers + blackspot are golden and if need be they can charge into melee and do all right against a black spot victim. The range they bring forces your opponent to deal with them which will often bring them into your slower units (BB [Bronzeback] & Sentry) and I find that I don't even miss the Gladiator.

Hexeris 2's biggest weakness is fighting against high armor but Reivers increase damage to larger bases along with combined range attack can help you soften up high armored opponents and when they get close the BB can finish them. You do need to protect your BB as he is your main answer to high armor.

Sentry or Savage can do wonders to infantry with BB's animus.

Sentry is a game changer with locker. Being able to control the battle field can be amazing and with an Agonizer can force them into very limited choices. He is also amazing tough and because he tends to survive and played forward, he makes a great bonded arc node. Sentry's biggest detriment is his low MAT, but that can be overcome with black spot, making him an almost auto include into Herxeris 2's list, imo.

I find the Savage is great for clearing infantry plus his animus can be helpful. I can see based on preference swapping him out for a Cyclops Shaman instead (The Shaman is added into a 50pt extension of this list). I would also swap for the Shaman if Deneghra was prevalent in your meta game (She is not in mine).

Extoler is used just as you said, giving you magic weapons or being able to see a stealth target.

----------------------------

IMO Razor Worm is best used for Hexeris 1 -- don't really think he's that needed for Hexeris 2.

If you're running Xerxis as an attrition caster than imo the Sentry should be used over the Gladiator. Krea lowers the defense, Shaman can copy which should allow the Sentry a boost to hitting (defense lowered). I also think at 50pts he needs more Centari than just a single unit, again if you want to run attrition.

[PG_petegrrrr]

In my experience so far, Slingers do not get outshined by other options in skorne, certainly not for their crazy cheap price.

They decimate single wound models, especially shield wall units from up to 16 inches away, threaten warjacks, And are priceless against cryx, especially if you should happen to find a venethrax player, which just makes them absurdly funny.

I'd rate them a purchase, but at the very least they are a proxy. They add a dimension of ranged threat, most notably against warmachine (altough they will really annoy a Baldur construct list too), that Skorne usually lacks.

[Draakur]

Awesome write-up! This post does a good job summarizing much of what can be found in the various tacticas and doesn't stray too far into any single model or tactic. I can agree that some of this is contestable to some extent, however the overall flavor of the article is helpful and straightforward. Thanks for putting this together, Blitzer!

^^^ What he said. Very much appreciated

[chunky04]

I second the call that Slingers are a very nice unit. I'm not certain of this because I'm not near my cards, but can they get the +2 speed from the Tyrant Commander and still shoot? I think they can, and it really makes them nice against Jacks, Constructs and Battle Engines, which can cause your opponent to devote more resources than it needs to to get rid of them.

I don't get the hate for the Canonneer - its a hybrid beast that is capable of doing some business in melee while putting some nice shots out there at the same time, and has a nice animus to boot. With 5 POW18's and a POW16 its more than capable of destroying or heavily damaging a lot of heavies, even at MAT5.

[various]

Thanks for the write up, it's articles like this that make starting out far less complicated than they otherwise would be.

[PG_petegrrrr]

I second the call that Slingers are a very nice unit. I'm not certain of this because I'm not near my cards, but can they get the +2 speed from the Tyrant Commander and still shoot? I think they can, and it really makes them nice against Jacks, Constructs and Battle Engines, which can cause your opponent to devote more resources than it needs to to get rid of them.

.

Yes, with the Tyrant Commander they can walk 8 inches then sling 10 more.

[PG_Blitzer]

For what it's worth...i consider the TyComm a must have for The Empire. Passing out an additional 2" of mov. every round as well as pathfinder is very important for our units. And we must not forget Rev. Standing up our knocked down units will keep you from losing the game.
So much of hordes is about position and alignment. Knockdowns and slams end plans. Our units need the TyComm imho.

And that's why I put them in the "To Buy Category"

I think its interesting, but I do disagree with some of it. I successful use some of the "avoid models" and won events with them, so they cant be that bad.

I've won tournaments with all of our casters and all of our models, should I then put them all in the Buy list? Do you have specific models you'd like to recommend for new players that I didn't, or does your comment mean that Beginning Skorne players should just buy all the models?

I honestly think Hexeris 2 infantry of choice is Venator Reivers + UA.

The Venator's are a very good unit for him if you are making an all comers list. I mentioned in the beginning paragraph that my suggestions were based on Steamroller environments. I will be using eHexy vs. infantry swarm, including cryx and their bane thralls. One of Skornes tough matchups is pDenny, Venators will work against her, but it’s not the best choice. If you don’t have to worry about Banes, and/or stealthed units, then Venators would indeed be a great choice.

In my experience so far, Slingers do not get outshined by other options in skorne, certainly not for their crazy cheap price.

They decimate single wound models, especially shield wall units from up to 16 inches away, threaten warjacks, And are priceless against cryx, especially if you should happen to find a venethrax player, which just makes them absurdly funny.

I'd rate them a purchase, but at the very least they are a proxy. They add a dimension of ranged threat, most notably against warmachine (altough they will really annoy a Baldur construct list too), that Skorne usually lacks.

Thanks for the input, this is exactly the type of comments that new players need to see. They do have some potential, but time will tell on how they finally fall in the faction.

[Glasskin]

This is some really solid advice. When I was starting out, I had a lot of trouble picking what to buy next on a limited budget. A list like this makes it a lot easier for players to weigh the strengths of the units they're thinking of picking up next.

Like a lot of people though, I have a nit to pick.

I'm going to recommend the Titan Cannoneer for new Tyrants to proxy once they get a few games under their belts. It really clicked for my play style from the moment I tried it. It doesn't reflect our faction's strengths the way a lot of the other heavies do, so it can easily fall flat if it doesn't fit your play style.

But when I take it, I'm always glad I did, and when I don't take it, I usually miss it. For me, it's having a decent gun while still being able to both take a beating and dish one out like a heavy in melee. The cannon can pick off solos, force units to spread out, and keeps a lot of enemy 'casters honest, in my experience. Meanwhile, the club and tusks are perfectly capable of killing heavies with Enrage up.

Overall, I wouldn't call it a "Buy," but I would recommend players proxy it to see how they like it.

[Demonster]

Awesome I would love to have this stickied cuz it is very accurate to competitive list making that people should look into.

Now, my thoughts. My only disregard for skipping is Tyrant Vorkesh. Yes, losing the ability to buff your army alittle bites, but negating your opponent's debuffs and offensive magic is really golden. Facing against the Retribution, he is a must because if I have to go another round of watching my certrati dance like lunatics I will go insane. Seriously those mittens are beyond annoying. Also, keeping their armor above 18 is all that matters in the end which on average a heavy to dish out their boxes, but yeah, I recommend him in the proxy seat, depending on your meta. Trust me, he has saved and finished games for more than his points for me.

[Ulsif]

Thanks for putting the effort into this, and for others input, I plan on starting Skorne (my first Horde Army) later this month, and building it up while at GENCON. This answered all my questions without starting a new thread.

[Riffer]

Great advice. As a new Skorne player it helped out a lot.

[PG_Blitzer]

I'm glad it helped, if you have any other questions, feel free to post them here or send me a pm.

[Soylent]

Good list, though I prefer to ask new players which caster they want to go with after the battlebox and build from there.

While it's your list, I think Venator Reivers should be in the worth buying section as it's not what casters do for them but what they do for the caster/list. CRA is all the buff they need a lot of times.

[PG_petegrrrr]

I've been playing some larger point games lately with both Venators and the Slingers, just to see how I feel they match up when filling a similar role, and I have to say, although the Venators are solid outside of eHexy, and just flat out good with him, the Slingers have outshined them more often than not.

with black spot, they have literally cleared multiple infantry units off the board in a single go (not against high def like circle, but against trollbloods, cryx, cygnar, and menoth they have been money) on numerous occasions. They aren't always a smart play (they are much better against warmachine armies than most hordes armies, and menoth has a hard counter in Aegis spam), but for their points I have never been let down.

In a steamroller format, the slingers have become a big go to unit when I make my "anti -warmachine list" (my anti hordes list always being rasheth ) and I would rate them even higher than in my initial post.

6 points for 10 is just stunningly good value for the impact they can have in a lot of games.

[PG_Chris Cuevas]

Speaking of slingers, mine just did a pretty decent job today breaking a couple shifting stones. Totally worth the 4 points.

[Gdead909]

I know its been said before but thanks for putting this up here. I am coming over from trolls and helps a lot. Bah privateer press why did you make this game so fun I am going to be broke forever lol

[PG_Blitzer]

Updated the thread.

Siege Engine and Venator Slingers were added to the Skip category

Raider added to the Proxy category

Tiberion added to the Buy category