The Hour of War is upon us...

[CyrDraconis]

I know, I know. Theme lists, ew. But I'm no more sane than I was when I posted this kind of discussion on the Cygnar board.

Lord Arcanist Ossyan - Hour Of War
As a vague refresher:
T1 - limit to Myrs without forcefields, Hypnos; Archers, Houseguards, Vyre units; Arcanists, Snipers, Sylys; AFG
Bonus to start-of-game initiative, extra Arcanists based on battlegroup
T2 - 2+ House Rifle units
One Rifle unit beings its own UA
T3 - 2+ Arcanists
Arcanists can take Myrs for a walk before turn 1
T4 - Hypnos
Start with upkeeps on

Selection
Unit selection lean towards ranged fire, which is supported by Ossyan's feat and (theoretically) spell list to an extent - but the Banshee is a strong melee element, the other myrmidons are decent, and the House Halberdiers are quite versatile.

The House Rifles are generally considered a weaker choice, but I'm looking at using two min units plus UAs (one free). Yes, you lose the big CRA, but I'm thinking of the Rifle units as 2-3 man (elf) CRA-based kill teams; with the UA they can CRA into melee and generally getting decent odds. Might do well with Snipers lurking around to take 3-damage potshots to either start or finish things. Archers sit back and provide AoEs as needed.

Myrmidons should be okay, the Vyre chassis all have their utility guns; slight weaknesses in that you can't have any lights, and the only node available is the Hypnos.

Support is alright; who doesn't take Arcanists anyway, and Sylysysys' free upkeep and pseudoboost can definitely help keep Ossyan slinging spells from midfield. And though not mentioned specifically, the list can bring some extra magic-denial with Soulless attachments.

Of course, like Thyra's theme list, we have no idea what any Vyre units may bring.

Benefits
Tier one and two aren't bad. Bonuses to initiative never hurt, nor does keeping Powerbooster/Concentrated Power around longer. Free UAs are also welcome.

The big bonuses, IMO, are tiers three and four. Getting myrmidons upfield and into firing positions early (everything has a gun, remember!), and out of the way of the upcoming Halberdier wave (possibly Quickened) can be key for early chokepoint coverage or scenario threat. Alternately, just being able to move that 5" -laterally- to change what threats you're matching up throws people that are used to just meeting in the middle.

T4 letting you start with upkeeps out for free is a big thing for Ossyan, given his spell list; this alone make HoW one of the few theme lists I'd consider taking all the way. Having the focus to cycle a Quicken on turn one to get upfield, or loading up the (advance-walking) myrmidons to fire on inbound hostiles if you take second turn...heck, have Chronomancer up and hand off the upkeep to Sylyyylyys.

Further...
Ret's theme lists in the Forces book were...somewhat lackluster, partially due to only having so much variety. The post-book themes, Vyros' NQ Dawn's Talon and this, definitely make a better showing with the expanded model options.

That said, Hour of War is -doable- at T4/35 points, but it's still -better- at 50-plus. Consider:
System: Warmachine
Faction: Ossyan - The Hour of War
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/50
Tiers: 4
Lord Arcanist Ossyan (*6pts)
* Hypnos (9pts)
* Sphinx (7pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Houseguard Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
* Houseguard Halberdiers Officer & Standard (2pts)
Houseguard Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Houseguard Riflemen Officer & Standard (0pts)
Houseguard Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Houseguard Riflemen Officer & Standard (2pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcanist (1pts)

Okay, lots of shooting here, and quick to get out of the deployment zone. Myrs walk ahead and set up firing positions; Quickened Halberdiers rush forward around the myrmidons and set up a screen. Rifle units play skirmishers, picking off anything that closes and doing CRAs to erase annoying things that run to engage.

Problems - outside of the Ret weaknesses to stealth and high-def, melee-spam lists. Butcher2 Doomreaver spam, as an extreme example, is going to cut through this list like butter.

To 50 - 15 points is two Archer units, upgrade Sphinx to Banshee, add a Soulless to the Halberdiers and an extra Arcanist. Could also toss in another jack - Daemon, Stormfalls, Arcanist is 15 as well.

To 75 - 25 points is a big jump. AFG is 10, this is a big game, toss it in. The AFG's personal Arcanist, 11, and min Halberdier unit as a screen, 15. Two Snipers, 19. Two (gasp) Heavy Rifles and two more Soulless.

Amusingly, the full build above actually greys out all the choices for Hour of War in Forward Kommander:
System: Warmachine
Faction: Ossyan - The Hour of War
Casters: 1/1
Points: 75/75
Tiers: 4
Lord Arcanist Ossyan (*6pts)
* Banshee (10pts)
* Hypnos (9pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Heavy Rifle Team (Leader and Grunts) (2pts)
Heavy Rifle Team (Leader and Grunts) (2pts)
Houseguard Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
* Houseguard Halberdiers Officer & Standard (2pts)
* Soulless Escort (1pts)
Houseguard Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Houseguard Riflemen Officer & Standard (0pts)
* Soulless Escort (1pts)
Houseguard Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Houseguard Riflemen Officer & Standard (2pts)
* Soulless Escort (1pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcantrik Force Generator (10pts)
Houseguard Halberdiers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)

Anyone else have experience to contribute on this one? I'm currently just in Theorymachine mode at the moment, while some of the new toys are getting painted.

[FranzGrenstein]

Is this a Homebrew theme list?

[PG_Dino-Czar]

No, thats Ossy's theme as published in Wrath.

[FranzGrenstein]

Oops, I really need to get back to Ret.

Just looking at I it really doesn't impress me.

[Halycon]

I've been looking at this as well, but I've ran in to the same thing as you at 35 pts, its a lot of riflemen, I'd be happier if we could have the tier2 to be expanded to houseguard either rifle or halbs but that would make it alot easier to fluff out with 2 max units and at least one set of SFA's

for your 35 I'd probably want to drop wishnailer, one of the riflemen UA and one of the arcanists and get that SFA unit in there, 2 arcanists means that you've one for each Jack which does take it away from Ossy but unless you're loading both up each turn you can support them both with 1 and Ossy himself - Hypnos is going to be shooting alot to start with and then you'll be getting into bashing things anyway, but shooting soemthing with hypnos and then brutalshotting SFA's will likely put down a heavy, 2 on feat turn if they hit them both! Wishnailer does nice things for all our casters, but at 35 pts your caster isn't spread that thin that he can't do most of what you want.

Never played a 75pt list but it looks like alot of models to have to move and remember. You have too many arcanists for jacks imo, that number would be too many for 3 jacks and an AFG, but then they are only 1pt and it can be filler i suppose.
I'd probably drop one of the heavy rifles, 1 arcanist and the min halbs and put the sphynx back in just to give a bit more heavy support in there, it can be covering your AFG directly but still move out for any threats on that side of the board, the afg arcanist will just have to double dip.

I'd still give your list a whirl and see what it can do, its alot of buying of the same models, some of which I'd not really use outside of this tier, the heavy rifle looks awesome but is difficult to place correctly and the riflemen whilst good just won't be taking place of my invictors at this point, and the tier requires I buy 2 of them....

[Krymson1986]

The problem is the tier list for Ossy is all shooting. Halbs offer mild melee ability, but are really there to block LOS to your shooting elements. This list could become awesome though with the release of "Vyre units", which as of now, we have no damn idea what they are. The thing with this list is it requires you to play a lot of keep away to keep your shooting avenues open, however, with the Vyre jacks being as slow as they are, I'm not sure it's a great option. However, the riflemen's ability to CRA into melee at no penalty is AWESOME and oft overlooked by everyone in favor of Invictors (myself included)

[CyrDraconis]

The problem is the tier list for Ossy is all shooting. Halbs offer mild melee ability, but are really there to block LOS to your shooting elements. This list could become awesome though with the release of "Vyre units", which as of now, we have no damn idea what they are. The thing with this list is it requires you to play a lot of keep away to keep your shooting avenues open, however, with the Vyre jacks being as slow as they are, I'm not sure it's a great option. However, the riflemen's ability to CRA into melee at no penalty is AWESOME and oft overlooked by everyone in favor of Invictors (myself included)

Pretty much. In reverse order, re. your latter point, that's why I'm looking at the HGRifles as skirmishers and killteams, not a gunline element. One 'jack, maybe two with a cycled upkeep can be pretty fast with Quicken....but that means Quicken isn't on your HHalbers or Ossy.
And here's hoping for House Vyre Swordsmen or something.

[Chip]

However, the riflemen's ability to CRA into melee at no penalty is AWESOME and oft overlooked by everyone in favor of Invictors (myself included)

This is true, by the way. I've not got over the look on people's faces when they think they've survived a 'jack charge only to get pummelled with a POW 21 hit

I've had some great successes with Ossyan, and as of Monday, I'll be trying out the following list;

Ossyan
-Banshee
-Hypnos
-Sylys Wyshnallyr
3 Arcanists
10 Riflemen + UA
10 Riflemen + UA
4 Stormfall Archers
4 Stormfall Archers
Heavy Rifle Team
Heavy Rifle Team

Partially because it looks awesome (aaaalmost got it all painted...), partially because it'll be a lot of fun, and partially because it'll give at least one person on these boards a coronary when they read it

[Lord Sessadore]

Do you feel up to posting a battle report or two? I'm interested to see how it turns out.

[Chip]

Do you feel up to posting a battle report or two? I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Sure I'm not expecting miracles, but I should be playing against a 'jack heavy Khador list, so we'll at least know how well it does against armour

[kibbles]

The problem is the tier list for Ossy is all shooting. Halbs offer mild melee ability, but are really there to block LOS to your shooting elements. This list could become awesome though with the release of "Vyre units", which as of now, we have no damn idea what they are. The thing with this list is it requires you to play a lot of keep away to keep your shooting avenues open, however, with the Vyre jacks being as slow as they are, I'm not sure it's a great option. However, the riflemen's ability to CRA into melee at no penalty is AWESOME and oft overlooked by everyone in favor of Invictors (myself included)

They don't ignore the DEF bonus - they are just allowed to CRA into melee (normally not allowed). Your target is still DEF +4 due to being engaged though. Per the tactical tip for War Tempered: "Do not ignore the target's DEF bonus for shooting into melee."

[Kallas]

Pretty decent analysis of the theme force. Personally, were I ever to run this theme, I'd take Hypnos and two Daemons over your suggested jacks (looking at the 50pt list) just for the superior infantry clearing, whilst utilising two RAT 13 POW 17's at RNG 14 from the Riflemen to poke heavies and soften them up.

My only real gripe with your write up involves this:

2-3 man (elf) CRA-based kill teams; with the UA they can CRA into melee and generally getting decent odds.

This is a terrible proposition. (Ok, maybe a bit hyperbolic, but still...)

Against infantry, where average DEF is 12-14, you're looking at RAT 8 for the three-elf CRA. That's killing one infantry model with effectively 3pts of Riflemen (slightly less because of the free UA) which is not a great trade. Against heavy infantry, like Man-o-War or Troll Champs it's fair enough, although bigger CRA's would probably be better still, since POW 13 isn't killing most heavy infantry.

When firing into melee, you're getting even worse; that same CRA is now effective RAT 4. Against DEF 12-14 you're looking at 8-10 to hit - you might as well shoot your own guy in the back and cut out the middle man! Even with the leading guy aiming you're looking at 6's which is a significant chance of failure.

The Riflemen are a fairly decent unit when you surgically remove Invictors, MHSF and Stormfalls from your mind and the War Tempered ability is great. But it's place is more for anti-Heavy/Light things in melee. Whites Of Their Eyes helps, of course, when you get in closer, but you're still stacking odds against yourself.

Anyway that's why I'd recommend the Daemons and advise against small CRA-ing.



[On a related note, my only problem with the Daemon is that it has IFF protocols on its gun, which is really, really annoying and stupid. It's not like it protects us from Domination or Machine Wraiths or anything.

Le sigh... ]

[Marshal Wilhelm]

[On a related note, my only problem with the Daemon is that it has IFF protocols on its gun, which is really, really annoying and stupid. It's not like it protects us from Domination or Machine Wraiths or anything.

Le sigh... ]

I don't know what this is....

[rolandhadley]

I don't know what this is....

It means you can't target your own guys with the Daemon's ranged attack. It would be wonderful to be able to run someone in and round up a horde of enemy stealth troops.

[Lord Sessadore]

Well, you can target a friendly model ... but the special effect doesn't trigger.

IFF = Identification Friend or Foe in the real world. Wikipedia explains better than I.

[Indy]

Back in the old days (as in, a month or two ago) before this newfangeld 'Deathclock' became a thing, my group had been musing on battle engines and scenarios, and how the AFG is probably one of the best things you can take to make sure you never lose a game on area-based scenarios. The theory is, with Ossy's theme list, you can start the game with Quicken on the AFG for free. "That's crazy!" I hear you say, but since you've got a decent (well, slightly better) chance of going first, we'd figured that it's actually a very sneaky way to quickly run your very hard to kill BE into the scenario zone, which is also usually a good position to be shooting from for the rest of the game. Ossy can then cycle Quicken onto something else, like Halbs, like you would any other time you'd use him. Sadly, though, the removal of scenario tiebreakers in the Deathclock format means this list won't work any more, at least not in a way that it might actually make you win.

[Chip]

Do you feel up to posting a battle report or two? I'm interested to see how it turns out.

OK, just to let you guys know, I've played my first game against a Karchev list with 6(!!) Khador 'jacks. As a quick spoiler, the two 'casters ended up in base to base combat and one killed the other in melee.

I'll leave the results as a surprise for when I post it up tomorrow...

[Lord Sessadore]

OK, just to let you guys know, I've played my first game against a Karchev list with 6(!!) Khador 'jacks. As a quick spoiler, the two 'casters ended up in base to base combat and one killed the other in melee.

I'll leave the results as a surprise for when I post it up tomorrow...

Lol, if Ossyan killed Karchev in melee, then you win the internets, sir.

Edit: would Arcantrik Bolt make Karchev stationary? This is honestly the first time I've thought about it, but since I've never seen it mentioned before, I don't think it would.

[Murkhadh]

I took Ossyan to a tier tournament recently and man were the riflemen underwhelming. I even got to do the whole aim and mini feat and cra into combat etc, it killed like 3 models. I really really really tried to find a niche for the riflemen, they just don't perform like everything else in ret though.

[Krymson1986]

Ossyan
-Banshee
-Hypnos
-Sylys Wyshnallyr
3 Arcanists
10 Riflemen + UA
10 Riflemen + UA
4 Stormfall Archers
4 Stormfall Archers
Heavy Rifle Team
Heavy Rifle Team

I like the list for a shooting list for the most part, but the big thing here to me is that Arcanist are +1 for each Myrmidon in your battlegroup. That means at 50 points, you could have 4 Arcanists easily. so each Myrmidon has effectively a repair team. First arcanist can try to impart repairs, or do power booster, the second can do concentrated power or power booster depending on what you need/want.

I will say this, the ridiculous thing about Ossy's Tier list is starting with ALL of Ossy's upkeep spells on for free, thats ridiculous. An AFG with Quicken on turn 1 can get as far up the field as it needs to the entire game. Shatter Storm on archers or riflemen, I'd go archers. Admonition on Hypnos. Let Quicken come off of the AFG, it doesn't need it anymore, upkeep Shatter and Admonition, turn on Chronomancer. You only end up paying for Chrono and paying to upkeep Shatter or Admonition thanks to Sylys.

If you can chew up enough enemies at range on turn 2, Ossy's tier could do some very serious damage. I'm still very skeptical about this list though because it has very little in the way of melee threats, nothing that is particularly durable.

Another major concern here is that Ossy's tier has no solos that can deal lots of damage to an enemy warcaster. Sure you have the Ghost snipers who can do 3 points of damage per shot, but You have to get them into a position and then stay there so they can get up to RAT9 (w aiming bonus), even then you need reasonably high (unboostable rolls) to hit. And you're dealing only 6 damage. Since you have no access to MHA, Pain Knight, Thanes etc. you don't really have much in the way that can really kill an enemy caster with ease that your opponent has to worry about. So you're basically trying to control and win via objectives, which can be rough going if the enemy gets you locked up in melee

[Chip]

I like the list for a shooting list for the most part, but the big thing here to me is that Arcanist are +1 for each Myrmidon in your battlegroup. That means at 50 points, you could have 4 Arcanists easily. so each Myrmidon has effectively a repair team. First arcanist can try to impart repairs, or do power booster, the second can do concentrated power or power booster depending on what you need/want.

Oooh I like that idea. I'm thinking of switching some stuff out and a fourth Arcanist is certainly on the list.

Linkage to the battle report. It's not hugely professional, but it hits the main points. Next weekend is a bank holiday, but I'm gonna try the list out again the week after and (hopefully) post up another one

[Lord Sessadore]

Very nice. I think my favorite part is the arcanist charging Karchev and landing 5 damage, lol.

Putting a Daemon in there would be cool, I think. If you'd rather keep at least one unit of stormfalls, you could see about dropping one stormfall unit and the heavy rifles, or dropping a rifleman unit to min. Just throwing out a few ideas for you to toy with.