Animatrix tactics

[theHman]

I know that 98% of Skorne players are unhappy about our BE rules (myself included).
And I know that the model isn't out and that most people haven't given him a try, but I'm convinced that we're missing something.

So this thread is for those of you who have played several games with him and found some cool combo's and strategies.
Let's figure this guy out.

Here's what I've tried:

With pMakeda, putting savagery on it on the first turn allows him to advance a full 10" and be in position for the rest of the game to shoot whatever is within 10".

Defender's ward puts his armor up to 21 which is respectful.
And carnage makes it very easy for him to hit the enemy in melee.

I've also tried him with Mordikaar for the express purpose of using it to essence blast the enemy caster.
Pow 18 (I think) + boost = pain on any caster.
Yeah, yeah, it's an expensive EB, but hey, I view everything in my army as expendable if it helps me achieve my goals.
Sadly my game went horribly bad for me from the get go and I never got the opportunity to EB the enemy.

Other things to consider:
Extoller to give it magic shooting - great for getting rid of those pesky incorporeal solo's.
Raider for extra range.

If you've tried the Animatrix, please share your (positive) experiences with us so that we can create a tactica for it.

[Indragnir]

I support your idea, later I'll post my experiences.
For now: Savagery don't allow ranged attacks, only melee ones.

[stephiroth]

I think with Xerxis it would be ok. As you said before, dw for walking up the board. Fury pluses the tokens it gets could be good. Also Imo a raider+soulward would be pretty decent. This is all theory though, I haven't even used a proxy for it yet.

[PG_General Nemo]

I plan to use it with Zaal and his feat.

[PG_Draxos]

I plan to use it with Zaal and his feat.

Does his feat let you buy attacks?

[sathoon]

Does his feat let you buy attacks?

IRRC, 'fraid not: just boosts. Else just about everything in Zaal's army would be bent beyond butcher's lack of logical reasoning.

[PG_General Nemo]

That's what the Rage tokens are for!

[sathoon]

That's what the Rage tokens are for!

Rage tokens can't buy attacks either? I don't have the book on me, I can double check later though.

[Demeritus]

Rage tokens can't buy attacks either? I don't have the book on me, I can double check later though.

You are correct, Rage Tokens are only able to boost melee attack and damage rolls.

[mcdermott]

Ehexy, black spot makes it a hell of an infantry thresher, ram it into a unit, effective mat 9 rat 7 should net you at least 7 to 8 dead (thanks to weapons platform to shoot at models he cant reach with melee)., then he can hit it with ashes to ashes to finish off the rest.

[PG_Draxos]

And here we are polishing a turd...

[Sanctjud]

2 Girls 1 Animatrix!

eHexy is the only one to increase its output with respect to volume of attacks.
Then raider for far strike and Extoller for guidance are pretty straight-forward.

[Epizeuxis]

And here we are polishing a turd...

Hey, come on, now... OP created this thread for a more positive - or at least neutral - investigation of how we might be able to make better use of it.

There are plenty of other threads open for dumping on the animantarax, if that is your aim. Let's try to keep on the positive side

[Rhin0]

Yeah, pretty much just echo what others have said.

I have only had one game with it, on Vassal, and it wasn't too bad, (not worth 9 pts though)
but it could have been that i was not expecting much as well, haha.

If you can Aim with him, you get to Rat 7 which is pretty decent with D3+1 shots, which is do'able with Raider, making him Range 14"

And yes, I'd only really take him with eHex at this point, so BLK spot can make him an effective RAT 9 if aiming :P

But his not too bad at trimmin down the health of heavies, if you aim, his RAT 7 and PS 15, so usually something around, 6+ to hit, and dice -3ish.
Combine that with a max Ven unit, and there should be some shakey heavies about.

[theHman]

I support your idea, later I'll post my experiences.
For now: Savagery don't allow ranged attacks, only melee ones.

D'oh, you're totally right!
Fixed OP.

[Indragnir]

My experiences about it: You don't need to support the SA, what you need is 2-3 heavies ahead of it, keeping at bay opponent's heavies. Then SA plays slightly behind, dishing shots and joining to the melee (specially against infantry or lights).
What do you need to make it work? don't ever never get charged. If you managed to join a melee (again better against infantry or lights, by moving or charging) you're on the good way.

SA best allies (Obviously):
Heavies.
Raider and/or Extoller
Any spell or effect that buff his ARM. (Zaal and Xerxis coming first over Makeda because Fury and feats. Great synergies with Ghost Shot+Raider and Inhospitable Ground also. Surprisely good with Morghoul on feat turn, almost grants you immunity to Morg if you park him ahead)
Black Spot.
Rasheth if you field 2-3 heavies.

[gaminguy]

It's been a hard field at 35, at 50 when you can afford to field more screening infantry it does OK. The Raider is more or less necessary for the gun to do anything, and against armor over about 19 it's going to have trouble doing any damage regardless.

"Tricks" (hard to say that with a straight face...):

• KD the target and you can put both charge and Reiver attacks on it with some degree of reliability. That requires a beast for the most part and if you KD a target with one of our beasts and don't kill it something is probably wrong. It's a useful thing to remember though if you have an Archidon (crit pitch), a Rhino trying to deal with more serious armor, a Bronzeback that has two heavy targets you want dead this turn (throw with the chain attack), or a light in a good slam position (since they can't Headbutt a larger target).
• Speaking of KD, good players will consistently leave things just out of your charge range as bait. Slam-unition or two-haded throws can KD them for our ranged pieces. That's a common tool in our arsenal, those D3+1 shots extend the range quite a bit, and if you can get to a caster/lock that way you can force your opponent into playing a lot more conservatively if you don't get the kill.
• Pick your targets; the SA will not survive a turn in melee with weapon masters but it can take a charge from a pow 11 unit and survive on average.
• The Krea gets it up to 12/21 vs shooting, and since it's not sitting on the front line if you have any sense...
• Bring a Void Spirit or Feralgeist to have a charge target you can't hurt to kite the SA with. (Or just charge a Swordsman. They're expendable.) That extra 3" can expand your target selection a lot on the first couple of turns.
• Fire Magnet duty. It's a big impressive looking piece, if you really need to lure something into charge range the SA is probably the most expendable "big target" you have.
• LoS blocking. Again, not such a big deal but it's pretty hard to get LoS past a BE. Just don't do it if you're up against chain lightning/A2A/other "bounce" effects. It works for EHexi, it works just as well against us.

[Cannotcope]

One thing to keep in mind with the Animantrax and eHexeris is that Black Spot just generates attacks, not specific types of attacks.

-If you're in melee with your Black Spot target and have a juicy shooting target nearby, turn your Spear/Tail attacks into additional Reiver shots.
-If you're in melee with your Black Spot target and have extra models in melee range, shoot some outside of melee range with the Reiver and turn those into extra Tail attacks. Use your Spear attacks to also gain extra Tail attacks if needed.
-If you're in melee with a juicy target and your Black Spot target is in shooting range, turn Reiver shots on the unit into additional Tail attacks on the juicy target.
-Best Case Scenario: You're in melee with your Black Spot target and have a nice juicy target also in melee. In this case you can turn Reiver shots against the Black Spot unit (picking models outside your melee range if possible) and Spear attacks against the Black Spot unit into Tail attacks on the nice juicy target.

To be clear, what I mean by turning one type of attack into another is: When you kill a black spot targeted model with one type of attack, you can use the generated free attack as the other type of attack. Ie: Kill a black spot targeted model with a Spear attack and use the free attack to make a Reiver shot.

[gaminguy]

One thing to keep in mind with the Animantrax and eHexeris is that Black Spot just generates attacks, not specific types of attacks.

-If you're in melee with your Black Spot target and have a juicy shooting target nearby, turn your Spear/Tail attacks into additional Reiver shots.
-If you're in melee with your Black Spot target and have extra models in melee range, shoot some outside of melee range with the Reiver and turn those into extra Tail attacks. Use your Spear attacks to also gain extra Tail attacks if needed.
-If you're in melee with a juicy target and your Black Spot target is in shooting range, turn Reiver shots on the unit into additional Tail attacks on the juicy target.
-Best Case Scenario: You're in melee with your Black Spot target and have a nice juicy target also in melee. In this case you can turn Reiver shots against the Black Spot unit (picking models outside your melee range if possible) and Spear attacks against the Black Spot unit into Tail attacks on the nice juicy target.

To be clear, what I mean by turning one type of attack into another is: When you kill a black spot targeted model with one type of attack, you can use the generated free attack as the other type of attack. Ie: Kill a black spot targeted model with a Spear attack and use the free attack to make a Reiver shot.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, ruling here: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...ght=black+spot.

[Glasskin]

^This is a good thing to keep in mind. Make the Weapon Platform rules work for you. You could blast a lot of shots into an enemy heavy by charging your Black Spot target.

EDIT: Oh. :{

[Rynth]

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, ruling here: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...ght=black+spot.

Macallan's ruling here, http://privateerpressforums.com/show...l=1#post281551, says that the Black Spot attack has to be of the same type as the initial attacks. IIRC, Weapon Platform says that an Animantrax's get both ranged and melee initial attacks, so wouldn't its Black Spot attacks get to be ranged or melee? Or does Weapon Platform muddy the waters so much as to require another infernal once over?

[Cannotcope]

You're making both ranged and melee initial attacks, due to weapon platform, so it doesn't seem like the infernal answer properly clarifies what should happen. Perhaps a new rules thread to make sure?

[gaminguy]

I don't see anything unclear about it; ranged attacks generate more ranged attacks, melee attacks generate more melee attacks. The SA can generate both in the same activation but that doesn't change anything about how Black Spot works.

[Cannotcope]

Mac's answer doesn't actually say that though. It doesn't say melee generates melee. Indeed the Reaper thread says exactly the opposite. In the Reaper thread melee attacks (from Drag) are generating more ranged attacks, because that's what the initial attacks are. The only way the Reaper infinite loop works is because it is not the ranged attack creating more black spot attacks.

I would postulate that the initial attacks issue (Mac's answer) is due to the standard rules that you can only make one type of attack (melee or ranged) based on the initial attacks you make, unless you have a rule that allows both (Virtuoso, Weapon Platform, Drag). For instance if you can buy more attacks, you can only buy more of the type you made your initial attacks with. Weapon Platform allows both (iirc).

[Rynth]

I don't see anything unclear about it; ranged attacks generate more ranged attacks, melee attacks generate more melee attacks. The SA can generate both in the same activation but that doesn't change anything about how Black Spot works.

That's obviously not how Black Spot works. Just look at the infinity Drag ruling.
Ranged attack, damage not kill.
Pull in.
Melee attack, kill.
Repeat.

If the attacks spawned by Black Spot had to be of the same type as the killing attack then the Dragging model would now have an additional melee attack that they couldn't use. Instead, we know that Black Spot allows an additional ranged attack and we are told that is because that is the type of attack chosen for its initial attacks.

[gaminguy]

Question has been posted in the rules forum.

[PG_carnage4u]

Interesting question. Not sure how often that situation would arise though.
From my limited expeirence with the model (2 games now)

It really feels like its going to need to stay back and just shoot, and hopefully not get charged by a heavy and just deal with all infantry that comes forward. So it could be an ok model, assuming your taking on a mostly beast/jack list. I do like what it did with Rasheth, and I could see using it again with E hexy.

I think it will be a good model for me to use on friendly game nights, but not sure when I'll pick one up.

[Yzor]

I am thinking that the SA would be great for picking off important UAs and solos. At least in my local meta I would love to kill off Tartarus, Pistol Wraiths, NecroSurgeons, Lords of the Feast, Fellcallers and other annoying solos. Not sure if it's worth the points though. We play a lot of 50 point games though so maybe I could fit it in.

[gaminguy]

Mac's answer doesn't actually say that though. It doesn't say melee generates melee. Indeed the Reaper thread says exactly the opposite. In the Reaper thread melee attacks (from Drag) are generating more ranged attacks, because that's what the initial attacks are. The only way the Reaper infinite loop works is because it is not the ranged attack creating more black spot attacks.

I would postulate that the initial attacks issue (Mac's answer) is due to the standard rules that you can only make one type of attack (melee or ranged) based on the initial attacks you make, unless you have a rule that allows both (Virtuoso, Weapon Platform, Drag). For instance if you can buy more attacks, you can only buy more of the type you made your initial attacks with. Weapon Platform allows both (iirc).

Yeah, on more careful examination that IS what Mac is saying. The response I got in the rules forum was a tangled disagreement, poeticruse eventually stepped in and said basically "the rules as written are clear, quit wasting our time", so I clarified with "Yeah, that is clear; as-written the SA can use melee kills to generate ranged attacks from Black Spot and vice-versa", we'll see if anyone contradicts me.

It's a bit bothersome; I don't mind a 2-3 point model like BRMTs or AGs being a lot better with certain casters (much anyway), but a 9 point BE being radically better with one caster than any other? That's a highly questionable design decision.

[theHman]

I've noticed that some of the mods are not only unhelpful, but down right rude and douchy a lot of the times.
Quite sad.