Skorne Noob List

[Minotaur]

Hello everyone,

This is my first Skorne list. Have a few models from a few different factions but I just love the Skorne. Anyhow, the following i a 25 point list (of which I have most of the models already) and it is unpainted:

Tyrant Xerxis (very cool model)

Battlegroup: Bronzeback Titan (again, cool model) Titan Gladiator (also cool)

Bloodrunner Master Tormentor (do not have model)

6 Immortals (I love the concept of these guys)

Paingiver Bloodrunners (again, awesome models)

The idea with this list is to advance across the board and tear the enemy to pieces. However, I feel it is a little inconsistent, with the Bloodrunners being faster than everything else with anatomical precision they do not hit as hard against undead and/or construct. I will have to hold them back for a consistent and devastating charge against the enemy. I am also not sure how to use Xerxis, so trial and error I guess. I figured using only 2 beasts with him and his low fury would be a good idea. Thoughts, anyone?

I'm not very sure what I am doing here, so some help and/or input would be appreciated. For a 35 point list I would drop the Master Tormentor and add Hakaar, an Ancestral guardian and 6 Karax.

Xerxis theme list any good? Either of them?

Thanks!

[Skorznex]

No. Immortals suck with Xerxis and Bloodrunners ...... well..... yeah....don't use them either.

Cataphracts are where its at. Xerxis job is to plod up the field in a brick and then explode in melee. Bronzeback and Gladiator are fine. Get a Cyclops Brute ... everyone dies to knockdowns. For a tarpit infantry unit I'd go with Nihilators Defenders Ward is amazing for them and Fury is even better. Tyrant Commander and Standard Bearer make them stand up after a knock down. And seeing as how Xerxis is such a short fury caster he loves some Aptimus Marketh. Paingiver Beast-handlers give you impressive fury management with the ability to run super hot and not face any frenzied warbeasts.

[Glasskin]

Since you're pretty new to Skorne, I would file this under things to think about rather than rules you must follow. Get the models you like, and focus on finding a playstyle that works for you.

Immortals are incredible models, and they actually do have good potential with Xerxis. Defender's Ward makes them Def 14 Arm 19, which is plenty respectable against most things, and on the Feat turn, they can be Arm 21. Fury and Total Annihilation can make them hit crazy hard too. To top it off, friendlies can still see and move through them with Martial Discipline. They can't see through other models, but living Skorne warriors can see and move through them.

Here is the trouble though, and it takes us right into the Bermuda Triangle of Skornergy*. The Immortals want to be a max unit to get the most out of Vengeance. They also want an AG around to buff their speed. The AG, while definitely great with Xerxis, wants souls, and that means living small based infantry. Preferably enough to keep the AG fuelled for 2 turns - so a max unit (and paingivers if you're taking them anyway). That means you're spending most of your 25pts getting the Immortals to function as efficiently as possible.

And that means you might be missing out on Cetrati (I consider them crucial for Xerxis in larger games, but not necessary at 25pts) or many of our excellent warbeasts.

I've never taken Bloodrunners with Xerxis, but they have potential as an early jamming force. Defender's Ward makes them pretty hard to take down, and they can hold the enemy up while the main force gets into position.

Overall, I feel that your list will be kind of awkward at 25pts, but that it will really start coming together as you build on it.


EDIT: I forgot to follow up on this.
*Skornergy is when there's synergy between some elements of your army (like the Immortals getting a speed boost from the AG) that sort of falls apart due to other interactions between the same elements (the AG wants living models to provide souls, but the Immortals aren't living). In this case, you can deal with it just by providing the living models, but it'll probably feel like you aren't getting enough out of the Immortals until you do.

[Minotaur]

@ Skorznex

I already have the models. I do have Morghol and Zaal if they would work better with the bloodrunners and immortals. I do intend on getting beast handlers, cataphracts, and the tyrant & standard bearer in the future. Thanks for the advice.

@ Glasskin

I have a list of stuff I want to get, based primarily on how they look. It is not so much an optimized list I am looking for, more some advice to make my list work or tweak it, or how to avoid certain trapfalls with the faction, what to avoid at all costs, nice combos, etc.

I did read about Skornergy and am factoring that in to my play style. All I need to do now is paint some figures up and play a game or two.

[Glasskin]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I really like the Cetrati models for their spear and shield poses and their back flags (I am a sucker for flags, apparently), so I run them even with warlocks they aren't ideal matches for, and they often surprise me with how versatile they really are.

In terms of your 25pt list, your main punch will be your Titans and Xerxis. The rest of your list is pretty well suited to delivering them to high value targets. Here's how I'd do it.

Infantry tarpits can stall your titans for a long time, so you'll need to counter them with your own tarpit-the Bloodrunners. Put Defender's Ward on them, then send them against any infantry the enemy has. With the attack bonus from the MT, they'll be pretty lethal against anything but the highest Def stuff, but the main idea is to stop their infantry from stopping your beasts and Xerxis. Once they've done their job, I'd swap Defender's Ward back onto Xerxis, your surviving Immortals, or a Titan. Xerxis especially. He might need to get his clubs dirty pretty often in this list, and the extra Def and Arm makes a big difference.

The Immortals can hit really hard, but aren't very accurate. I'd keep them as a screen for Xerxis and your Titans, and put Fury on them against most opponents to maximize their damage against hard targets. They can take out heavies pretty easily, especially with Total Annihilation. Heavies will often come to them if you use them to screen your own heavies.

I'd keep Xerxis and the two titans close together for a number or reasons. The most important is that they are the only models you have that will block LOS to him against ranged assassinations, and will be a lot harder to remove than your infantry. Additionally, Xerxis is pretty good at clearing things up for your titans if they happen to be bogged down. Finally, the defensive aspect of Total Annihilation is great if all these tough models are benefitting together.

As you expand to 35pts, I recommend maxing out the immortals rather than taking a second AG. You'll have more Immortals around to take avantage of vengeance, and all your souls can go into feeding Hakaar. It also seems you'll have a point left over at 35, so you could replace the Karax with either Nihilators or Venator Rievers, both of which are good with Xerxis. You could also take a regular AG instead of Hakaar, and add minimum Paingivers.

Honestly a Bronzeback plus Gladiator beast loadout means you probably won't face many Frenzy checks even if you do have trouble pulling all the Fury off every turn. Xerxis makes his beasts hit absurdly hard, so Enrage isn't necessary. Paingivers are really really good, but I wouldn't say you need them.

The best thing you can do is get a couple games in. That will show you how to use the list to deal with different situations, and point out any blind spots it has.

I hope that helps.

[Minotaur]

The Cetrati are nice. As for back flags, I can take or leave them. I don't have a problem with the aesthetic, they usually break on me. Taking them in a regular list, I can also take them in Hexeris' Abyssal Cohort theme list. I have another Titan Gladiator, and a Titan Sentry too.

So, I use the Bloodrunners with defence buffs as a tarpit and/or sacrificial unit for my titans to get better mobility and choose better targets as they will not be speed bumped? Xerxes is starting to seem more and more like 'Skorne's Butcher' to me now. Keep him safe, and unleash him at the right time, but keep a buff on him.

Battle college mentioned maxing out Immortals too. They are not at the top of my shopping list, but they are there. I guess another AG wouldn't hurt. Is Hakaar necessary for this Skornergy or can I manage with two AGs, and not one AH and Hakaar? Minimum paingivers are a very tempting prospect. I'm almost tempted to add a third titan to the list with the Bronzeback being able to lessen Frenzy tests, but am not sure if that is 'pushing the envelope'.

While I like to get advice and list critique, I agree one hundred per cent with you on getting games in and learning from experience. I just want to paint my models before I play with them.

It helps a lot, thanks!

[Glasskin]

Well, the models you're going with do emphasize Xerxis' ability to play a bit like the Butcher. I tend to run Xerxis as more of a ranged/attrition warlock a lot of the time, and use tough troops, and Xerxis' defensive abilities to grind people down.

The big factors that make Xerxis different from the Butcher are Martial Discipline and Inhospitable Ground. These will give you a little more breathing room and flexibility than the Butcher would have. If you leave off Fury until the turn you think you'll need it, you can upkeep Defender's Ward, cast IHG, and still have a point of fury left over for transfers. Against a lot of armies, that will make a big difference.

[Minotaur]

I like the butcher, but I see where you are coming from, Xerxes is more like a Roman Shield (albeit more agressive and mobile) Wall than a spiked club.

I take it with the low fury stat he has, as well as damage transfers, defenders ward, and IHG there will not e a lot of fury camping for extra attacks and boosts due to his warlock style?

[PG_Blitzer]

You really need to play some games instead of just talking about playing. Xerxis isn't that hard to figure out.

[Minotaur]

I can't get games in at the drop of a hat (mainly due to work hours and the distance my gaming group is from me), and I like to research stuff first. Considering I am new to Warmachine, and haven't even played hordes yet, let alone know the fury rules that make it all different, this game is not painfully obvious to me.

[Glasskin]

Xerxis does not have a lot of spare Fury, it's true. After upkeeping spells, it's usually a choice of casting IHG, casting an Animus/topping off the Agonizer, or cycling Fury. I rarely have the resources left over to actually buy attacks unless I'm using Xerxis to assassinate. Mostly, I don't even do that, I just use Xerxis to Combo Smite something over the enemy caster (perhaps even one of my own models, it's something to keep in mind), then follow up with charging Cetrati or a ranged assassination.

Aptimus Marketh can really open his options up, fury wise, but I'd recommend learning the ropes without him unless you're feeling really cramped for fury.

[Minotaur]

Just played a Battlebox game with my girlfriend using trollbloods. I did well at the start, sorta. My Titan smashed an impaler, while the other impaler and axer crippled the spirits of my Cyclopes savages. Morghoul charged up the middle keeping her five fury. She tore the second impaler apart.

Unfortunately, and unexpectedly, my gf charged morghoul, and smashed my warlocks brains out with boosted damage rolls and an extra attack from the extra fury reaved from the first impaler that was killed by the gladiator. Still not sure what I think of morghoul

[Glasskin]

I like Morghoul a lot. If he's going to be any kind of danger, I'd make sure he has Admonition on himself as a rule of thumb.

[PG_Blitzer]

Xerxis is really tough at 25pts. Here is a list that will level up well when you get more models.

Tyrant Xerxis
Bronzeback Titan
Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Agonizer

[Minotaur]

@ Glasskin

Admonition all the way indeed...

@ PG_Blitzer

Xerxes at 25 is tough to use, or just tough tough? Morghuol is nice, and will require finesse and practice, but I would prefer survivability any day, hence Xerxes.

That looks like a nice list. I am not a fan of the Agonizer model, but I will use that list, thanks!