Help needed with competitive list

[ka2lu]

The group that meets locally is competitive minded and I want to return to Warmachine after a long break. (Pre MKII). I have a chance to purchase some Cygnar models and wanted to know if a competitive 35 point list could be made with the provided models.

Here is the list of models:
Siege
Stryker
Caine
10 Trenchers
2 Trencher Snipers
Max Finn
Charger
Lancer
Ironclad
Centurion
Warjack kit

I am not a competitive player but I do want to be able to keep up with the group.
Please let me know what you think.

Cheers
Ka2lu

[Phantom]

What you have there is a very diverse group of miniatures that have very little synergy amongst themselves. I would say that without buying any more models you can't make a competitive list from what you got there, sorry...

[Chasu]

Now this is assuming you have two grenade porters instead of two snipers. Snipers are apart of the UA for trenchers and would come with an officer. I would not say it is competitive really but could be decent to use. I would normally not have siege have this many jacks at all but if this is what you have to work with here ya go

Cygnar
Tier 1: The Big Guns
35+5 points, 18 models

Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane +5 points
* Charger 4 points
* Defender 9 points
* Ironclad 7 points
* Lancer 6 points

Captain Maxwell Finn 3 points
10 Trenchers 9 points
* 2 Trencher Rifle Grenadiers 2 points

[ka2lu]

These are the models that I can buy. I haven't purchased any as of yet. I want get as much as I can from this list as they are very well priced but I know I won't need them all.

I should have been more clear.

Sorry

Oh, It is the officer and sniper set.

[Mantastyle1800]

I do not think this a competitive set of models. You may want to consider running fewer 'jacks specificaly not the charger or ironclad. There are some good deals on this site I would consider before buying any of these models. Also, trenchers are widely considered to be overpriced.

[bStyker]

Here it is:

pStryker (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Centurion (9)
-Lancer (6)

Trencher Infantry (max) w UA (13)
Maxwell Finn (3)

... Journeyman Warcaster (a purchase that should be readily available almost anywhere) (3)
=35pts


Basically, it's a pop-n-drop list with a Centurion to hold objectives and an Ironclad to beat face. Give Snipe to the Trenchers, Desparate Pace them with Finn, hit the enemy Warcaster with an Earthquake Arc'd from your lancer, and then pound the enemy Warcaster with CRAs from the Trenchers who will put out 6 POW 13s from 22" away.

Best,

[DontStop]

PM sent.

That's not a bad lot to buy, you are just going to want a tar-pit unit ASAP. Certain factions the Trenchers will be USELESS against and you could easliy get bummed out on the faction. Legion of Everblight will make you HATE the Trenchers and could lead to you getting very frustrated.

Here is what you will want to buy ASAP after buying that lot. This is with the idea of you wanting to "keep up".

1 Tar-pit unit - Forge Guard, Nyss Hunters (with Siege, in Foxhole), Precurser Knights or the #1 option Boomhowlers mercenary Trollkin unit.
2. Jonah's Murdoch - If you buy a mercenary unit as your tarpit. This is so they can benefit from faction buffs.
3. Journeyman Warcaster
4. Squire
5. Arcane Tempest Gun Mages

The nice thing about Cygnar is they are cheap to buy. Ol'Rowdy will be your most expensive purchase that you will need to make early. The Thunderhead will be the next big purchase but that can wait. Stormclad is a great warjack and can be had for $24 new, so keep that in mind.

Here are some guidelines you should follow for any competitive live. (This was stolen from Muse on Minis site)

Can it take care of?
- Upkeeps
- Rough Terrain
- High Def
- Armor
- It has Melee
- It has Range
- My pieces are survivable.
- Magic Weapons

I'm not sure how new of a player you are, or just new to Cygnar. So don't think I'm talking down to you, it just sounds like you might be newer because of your question about the lot. Just trying to be helpful!

Enjoy,

DS

[DontStop]

Now this is assuming you have two grenade porters instead of two snipers. Snipers are apart of the UA for trenchers and would come with an officer. I would not say it is competitive really but could be decent to use. I would normally not have siege have this many jacks at all but if this is what you have to work with here ya go

Cygnar
Tier 1: The Big Guns
35+5 points, 18 models

Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane +5 points
* Charger 4 points
* Defender 9 points
* Ironclad 7 points
* Lancer 6 points

Captain Maxwell Finn 3 points
10 Trenchers 9 points
* 2 Trencher Rifle Grenadiers 2 points

I don't see why you would EVER use an Arc Node with Siege?

[Varius]

I don't see why you would EVER use an Arc Node with Siege?

Force hammer maybe? dunno

[DontStop]

Keep in mind, I'm a newer Cygnar player (5+ years Circle player) so you can take what I say with a grain of salt. I am having a lot of fun and success so far though.

[Joasht]

The nice thing about Cygnar is they are cheap to buy.

I very strongly disagree if you plan on playing Cygnar as your main, as every caster tends to be quite specific in its desires. Despite me having a fairly "tight" collection (i.e. I don't really own much of the stuff that doesn't see play) and not having a handful of casters (Darius, eNemo, Kraye, Kara, Constance) my Cygnar collection (including Mercs) currently stands in at 229 points. In contrast, my Khador and PoM function just as well at a total collection of approximately 150 points, and in both cases, only lacking three casters (Harkevich/Zerkova/eButcher and Testament/HR/Vindictus).

[Chasu]

I don't see why you would EVER use an Arc Node with Siege?

To eat 6 points of the list. Not a lot of options to chose from with options given. I personally have not used a lancer with him either.

[MadJack]

I don't see why you would EVER use an Arc Node with Siege?

Yeah, Force Hammer is pretty much the only reason. To be honest, though, I use that spell so rarely with him that on the few occasions when I do use it, I'm almost as surprised as my opponents. I guess it's just that Siege's other tricks are almost always a better way to go, and Force Hammer just seems like a poor cousin to Caine's Thunder Strike. Anyway, I wouldn't bother with a Lancer for Siege.

[ka2lu]

I appreciate all the feedback.
I used to run Cygnar, but only for a short time and that was six or seven years ago. The crowd that I played with was VERY competitive and most of them enjoyed smearing new people. I got my butt handed to me time and time again but still enjoyed the game. I consider myself a new player as I haven’t played the MKII rules.

I can purchase any or all of the listed models. I just want to narrow down what I need. It’s hard not to take the lot, but that’s lead addiction for you…

I really wanted to run something like:

Siege
Defender
Defender
Squire
10 Nyss
Rangers
Reinholdt
And a maybe B13

Thanks again and any advice is good.

Ka2lu

[DontStop]

I very strongly disagree if you plan on playing Cygnar as your main, as every caster tends to be quite specific in its desires. Despite me having a fairly "tight" collection (i.e. I don't really own much of the stuff that doesn't see play) and not having a handful of casters (Darius, eNemo, Kraye, Kara, Constance) my Cygnar collection (including Mercs) currently stands in at 229 points. In contrast, my Khador and PoM function just as well at a total collection of approximately 150 points, and in both cases, only lacking three casters (Harkevich/Zerkova/eButcher and Testament/HR/Vindictus).

I don't understand your point total comparison to prices? I have 300 points of Circle but that doesn't mean my 150 points of Cygnar was more expensive. I kind of see your point but I still don't agree. I buy 90% of my stuff from other people at half of retail. ALWAYS magnatize your warjack kits. If you can trade, do it! Just a few tips.

Even at retail the popular (some auto-includes) stuff for Cygnar is cheap. Squire, JWC, B13, Murdoch, Runewood, Gun Mages (cheap by unit standards), Rangers and Stormclads (omg so good for the money). Most of the casters are small based and cheap. The first spendy buy is Ol'Rowdy.

Menoth is pretty spendy IMO to get into. Menoth runs jacks the best and Jacks are spendy. Any new Menoth player MUST get a Reckoner, Redeemer, Repenter and The Avatar. Shoot, any Hordes army requires a lot of beasts which is spendy.

I guess that comes down to a play-style though. I prefer a lot of jacks with Cygnar and that's spendy. The first stuff I had to buy was super cheap though.

So yes, in comparison, Cygnar is cheap. Hordes kind of tosses that argument into my direction though.

Thanks,

DS

[DontStop]

I really wanted to run something like:

Siege
Defender
Defender
Squire
10 Nyss
Rangers
Reinholdt
And a maybe B13

Thanks again and any advice is good.

Ka2lu

That's pretty close to how my Siege list started. I eventually dropped the 2nd Defender for Ol'Rowdy but I know 2 Defenders is popular. I'm an attrition player by nature so I have a hard time building for assassination (which is the reason for two Defenders right?). I'm going to drop Nyss for Boomhowlers for a few games to see how that goes. I'm sure I will end up back at the POW20 CRA for the feat turn but it's worth a shot right?

[DontStop]

Really, character restrictions are what starts bringing your purchase price up. If a new player wants to play in a tourney, they are required to buy quite a few new things to do it in most cases.

[crazypackage]

I have the whole Cygnar lineup besides Katherine Laddermore and Darius. I got my small initial force of a 35pt list through a trade and I've obtained the rest exclusively through tournament prize support. With this in mind I am very picky about the order in which I pick models up.

I'm going to cut the BS and tell you what to buy. Unless you really want to play a eNemo or Sloan or Constance this will be a great guideline for newer players that care about playing Cygnar.

Casters aside:

Squire (Every list will have him until you try Sylys with pNemo)
Gunmages w/UA (Amazing)
Defender/Stormclad (You'll want both early on)
Journeyman Warcaster
Max Nyss Hunters (Merc Unit, but amazing with Cygnar)
Jonas Murdoch (To attach the the above Nyss)
Rangers (Amazing)

After this you get into preference zone. Mine is as such:

Max Boomhowlers
Ol' Rowdy
2nd Defender (I like Siege)
Reinholdt (Again Siege)
Cyclone
Stormblades w/ 1-3 gunners and UA

The rest is more situational and by the time you buy the above you will know what to buy next.

Trencher Infantry (not Commandos, they are good), Trencher artillery, Sentinel, and Triumph are the only things I would avoid at this point.

[Joasht]

I don't understand your point total comparison to prices? I have 300 points of Circle but that doesn't mean my 150 points of Cygnar was more expensive. I kind of see your point but I still don't agree. I buy 90% of my stuff from other people at half of retail. ALWAYS magnatize your warjack kits. If you can trade, do it! Just a few tips.

Even at retail the popular (some auto-includes) stuff for Cygnar is cheap. Squire, JWC, B13, Murdoch, Runewood, Gun Mages (cheap by unit standards), Rangers and Stormclads (omg so good for the money). Most of the casters are small based and cheap. The first spendy buy is Ol'Rowdy.

Menoth is pretty spendy IMO to get into. Menoth runs jacks the best and Jacks are spendy. Any new Menoth player MUST get a Reckoner, Redeemer, Repenter and The Avatar. Shoot, any Hordes army requires a lot of beasts which is spendy.

I guess that comes down to a play-style though. I prefer a lot of jacks with Cygnar and that's spendy. The first stuff I had to buy was super cheap though.

So yes, in comparison, Cygnar is cheap. Hordes kind of tosses that argument into my direction though.

Thanks,

DS

The points merely represent an abstract way of saying how big my collection is, without me actually counting how many models I have. Either way, my Cygnar collection is significantly bigger than both my Khador and Menoth even in terms of model count.

I still stand by my statement that each caster in Cygnar needs their own specific optimized list in a competitive setting (which the OP is in), and blindly auto-including models into every list is a sure way to turn many games into uphill battles. The problem is that many models in the Cygnar arsenal work awesomely with a couple of casters, but poorly with others; the reverse is not so true about other factions.

Most factions have a lot of "splashable" units; things that work well very well with everyone, allowing you to just swap casters and have an awesomely different experience. For example, Menoth wants those few jacks (as you mentioned), Errants, Choir/Book/Vassals. Khador always wants Kayazy/WG, Behemoth/Spriggan/Beast-09. Cryx wants its Bane Thrall module (UA+Tartarus) and a some form of unit (Satyixis, Mechanithralls, etc). Retribution likes its MHSFs, Stormfalls, Arcanists/Magisters/MHAs. All these examples cost tens of points in totality, giving you a list that can play differently with different casters but all work very well. The closest thing Cygnar has are a bunch of solos and Black 13th/ATGMs/Rangers, which can't exactly be matched together at <50 points since thats far too many POW10 attacks.

I'd also say that jack-heavy lists are actually less spendy than infantry spams, simply because one heavy jack costs less than a max unit of infantry, for about the same points. Also, talking about buying second hand, magnetizing and stuff doesn't make Cygnar uniquely cheaper, since that logic applies to every faction.

Either way I do not wish for this to start an argument or offend you; I'm just stating my point of view, which the OP might be interested in knowing due to his competitive setting

[MadJack]

I'm going to cut the BS and tell you what to buy. Unless you really want to play a eNemo or Sloan or Constance this will be a great guideline for newer players that care about playing Cygnar.

Casters aside:

Squire (Every list will have him until you try Sylys with pNemo)
Gunmages w/UA (Amazing)
Defender/Stormclad (You'll want both early on)
Journeyman Warcaster
Max Nyss Hunters (Merc Unit, but amazing with Cygnar)
Jonas Murdoch (To attach the the above Nyss)
Rangers (Amazing)

After this you get into preference zone. Mine is as such:

Honestly, crazypackage hits the nail on the head here. If I was to pick a "best non-caster Cygnar models" list it would probably match that exactly (except that I might not have thought of including the Nyss Hunters because I don't think of them as Cygnar models, and I might not have included Murdoch because I wouldn't have been thinking of the Nyss Hunters - with Murdoch the Nyss become Cygnar, though, so it's perfectly reasonable to include them in the list, especially because they're amazing). Each and every model in that list works great with any of our casters, although you won't necessarily use all of them in every list (at least I don't). A lot of people would include the Black 13th in that list too, and I can't really argue with that. I hardly ever use them, though, because I greatly prefer the Gun Mages + Officer, and I find that it's usually redundant to take both. It's easier to fit the Black 13th in a list, though, and there's no denying that they're amazing for the points.

As far as I'm concerned, everything else in Cygnar is a matter of preference, combined with what caster you're using, and what other pieces are in your army.

[crazypackage]

Completely forgot about Black 13th. They have been in my secondary eHaley list for a while, and I rarely bust her out since I'm still smitten over Siege.