Looking for thoughts from Older Druids

[Marchant06]

* Sorry for the title, i just realized how badly that's put. I was going for Looking and have not idea how to change it *


Hey all, I'm looking at running my first Circle SR event coming up, and have the problem of list ADD. I thought I would post here in hopes of hearing your thoughts. We have and all hordes tournament coming up in two weeks, the top four go on to in a final tournament with 4 Hordes and 4 WM. Lists can be changed in between. I thought of putting this in the list commentary section but wanted to give some info and see what you guys are thinking. Usually I play to win, but not try-hard, but this tournament has a battle engine for the winner, so I'm gunna kick it up a notch. The breakdown for sure by now is 2 Circle, 2 Legion, 2 Trolls and maybe one gator and one skorne. I'm mostly afraid of one of the legion players whose casters will be Saeryn and Ethrag. I was gunna take Ebaulder for that matchup and try and grind him, but I'm not sure if I want to lose Mega in that list.

My proposed lists are:

System: Hordes
Faction: Circle Orboros
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Krueger the Stormlord (*5pts)
* Gorax
* Warpwolf Stalker
* Woldwarden
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts)
* Druid of Orboros Overseer
Shifting Stones
* Stone keeper
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers

Baldur the Stonecleaver (*6pts)
* Megalith
* Woldguardian
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Shifting Stones
* Stone keeper
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Nuala the Huntress

My plan right now is to use the Ekruegar list against the saeryn one if I need to, and the Baulder one to take on beast heavy lists (stone skin trackers and guardian/ megalith). I'm not too positive though, as I haven't actually played either caster yet. I started Circle this year, and tend to buy all the warlocks to try them out. I've played Kromac 15 + games becuase of him being my first caster and a journyman league, but outstide of that Pkruegar is 3 games, Mohsar 2, Morhvana 1, Ebaulder 2, Cass 2. So I don't really have all that much experience with anyone outside of Kromac, so I don't mind using the next two weeks to try out these two casters.

So my questions to you, in easy to answer bullet form

-Are my pairings a good match/ Which would you Change?
-Are my lists decent?
-How hard is it to learn Ekruegar? I have a feeling that 4 or 5 games should be the gist of it (pull and push, right?)
-Would Ebaulder really do me better here? I have a list that runs Mega, Ghetto and a Wold Guardian, but I don't have druids or any jam in that list.
-Is Ekregar that good a matchup vs Saeryn? I read somewhere that the two best were her and Ebaulder, which do you prefer?

Thanks a bunch, sorry if this is in the wrong spot! I kinda want the advice on casters more than lists but I'd love both!

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Thread title fixed and thread moved to list discussion.

[Marchant06]

Thank you very much for the help Redphantasm!

[null_sheen]

You will have to explain to me how either list deals with Saeryn's feat turn?

Also do the troll players play Madrak bricks because im not sure how you will deal with them?

Last but not least if the circle players have either druids or Kromac and both your lists have tons of magic spells how do you plan to deal with that?

Sorry i don't want to pull apart lists without a little more info, also how familiar are you with Kromac?

[Marchant06]

You will have to explain to me how either list deals with Saeryn's feat turn?

Also do the troll players play Madrak bricks because im not sure how you will deal with them?

Last but not least if the circle players have either druids or Kromac and both your lists have tons of magic spells how do you plan to deal with that?

Sorry i don't want to pull apart lists without a little more info, also how familiar are you with Kromac?

No problem, any advice or questions are great, thanks for the replies.

I was reading up on specific counters to Saeryn in the main circle forum and two ones really stood out it seemed. Both involved letter her Alpha onto your pieces, which isn't great, but anything is better than just being hit twice by angels and scytheans. The first is Ekruegar counter-feating, pushing models off yours, allowing you to push them away, turn them backwards and shoot them. Not ideal, but better than nothing. The second is Ebaulder, feating in hopes that the damage is light. I liked the first one better, so I plan to use the Ekruegar list for that and any control zone games I feel I can win by kiting/ denying.

I Believe that one of our troll players will be bringing one brick, but the other I believe will bring Jarl/ Doomshaper, just from preference. You have me here, I have no real answer except to try and kite or use Pbaulder's feat to gain me time. TBH I don't have a lot of experience against trolls. Any lists that would be better suited for this?

On the druids I feel its a wash. We will both bring them, hopefully I can pull something out. He has played circle much longer than me, but I have a good record against him. That means nothing at all, but I do feel confident I wouldn't be surprised by anything, more just worried that he will outplay me with a more familiar faction. I know Kromac well, I have 15 or so games with him, along with all the fixings. He was originally my go to list, but I was thinking these two paired better. I have no problem playing him, I'm just worried that he might get out-matchuped. In all honesty, I should play him as he seems to play well against other circle casters, and my character's don't interact between him and pbaulder.

In all honesty, I've never done a tournament for this game before, but was an ex-employee for the other guys and won some there. My problem is I theory-hammer way to much, and don't stick to any casters for a long time. Unless I get some nods telling me my lists work well (which we don't have a veteran player outside of the one mentioned who plays circle) I will second guess myself. Plus I've only played for two years, so don't know all the terrible matchups. That's where i was looking for help. The execution isn't what I'm worried about, it's the planning.

[null_sheen]

ok Thats cool,

pBaldur and e Krueger are two of our best scenario casters but personally i cant get them to work together in the format. I think that you need something that hits hard and moves and another that can stick solid in scenario.

Baldur the Stonecleaver (*6pts)
* Woldwyrd (5pts)
* Megalith (10pts)
* Woldguardian (8pts)
Sentry Stone (Leader and 3 Manikins) (3pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Blackclad Wayfarer (2pts)

This list is all rounded, two beasts that hit hard, two units and a beast that shoot and have magic attacks, and a few utility pieces that can either slow the opponent down or make you faster.
Its magic resistance is low with only the woldwyrd making casting spells difficult.
It is also T4 so you gain AD for your two heavies and advance move on the stalkers, all but the woldwryd can be 20" up the board turn one to apply some serious pressure on the opponent.

Something like this can give to some hard hitting
Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)

This list has power and mobility and naturally anti magic in the form or bestial, you could drop the gobbers and the stone keeper for a wilder or drop down Gheto and the Gobbers.
This list wants to dance, hit hard and run, use warpath and lightning strike to hit hard and get out of dodge. If your stalkers get tied up in melee zephyr out and shoot them then move away again to but more distance on them again (or aim for +2 to hit if you think you can clear them out).

The idea is you make two different lists to handle two different types of opponents.

[Marchant06]

I really like the second list, and the one that I was planning on running was the same except that it had a full unit of Bloodtrackers with Nuala instead. I understand the difference between the two, but I really love me some bloodtrackers.

I do have a question though, both of your lists run double woldstalkers (sadly I only have one right now). Do you field them outside of these two lists? I've had great success with my one unit, and wasn't sure if I should add the second unit. I know that T4 Baulder is great, but I didn't know if I could use them all the time outside of that ( I know the sentry stones aren't that great).

I could definitely see myself running those two lists, plus it means that I don't have to worry about learning another second list.

[null_sheen]

well woldstalkers also go well with Mohsar but really any time you are looking at trackers you could fit them in.
They are different as stalkers want to be at range where trackers and mix between range and melee (prefer range).

The big thing for me is that the stalkers are not only ranged but have magic weapons and that by itself is why i like them. They may or may not suit your style and you could remove them for trackers if you prefer.

Just keep in mind that you loose the tier benefits (so if you drop the Sentry Stone you could get something else for a point) for Baldur, and for Kromac remember to keep out of your beasts way, which can be done with reform.

[Marchant06]

I think I might look into a second unit, but only for the kromac list for right now. I really like the list that I have working with Baulder, mostly becuase I can cycle stone skin onto the trackers, which with solid ground makes them really annoying. Thanks Null for everything. It would have been nice to get a bunch of people's opinions, but you answering all my questions more than makes up for it.

On last question. If you had to take on Harbringer, which would you choose? I don't like Pbaulder becuase I don't think I can survive trading heavies, and I don't think I'll be able to sprint away from jacks. Thoughts?

[Razious]

For the Kromac list I'd take bloodtrackers over Woldstalkers but that's maybe just me. To awnser your recent question, I wouldn't want to face harby with either list. However, between the two It would be the kromac list hands down. Here's why, Bestial. This spell is going to allow your upkeeps to last in her control area. Now, her feat is going to do a number on you. I wish I had more experience with her to tell you how to really get around it but all I can think of is this, Add a second unit of shifting stones somehow, and hope the feat doesn't ruin both units. Wait for her to spend enough fury, teleport a WAed, Gorax'ed Ghetorix, and and the stalker within 5 inches of her. Have some way to trigger 2 warpath moves (1 for ghetorix, 1 for the stalker) get them within 2 inches and just beat the hell out of her. If that fails, have kromac beast outs and finishes the job.

[The Golden Arrow]

Bestial will do nothing to protect your upkeeps since harby has a so much larger control area and can just stand outside Kromac's control and purify everything away.

[Marchant06]

That was my first thought too, if I could somehow get Kromac that far up the board to protect my upkeeps. That would mean getting within charge distance of the Avatar, which I don't want to test. My Kromac list has harder hitting beasts, but I'm sure he'll bring multiple crusaders with Choir, and the Avatar. There's no way I can kill them and then try and trade. I don't think Sprint activates on a jack death,but I'm not sure.

I was leaning towards Pbaulder and trying to use my feat and mega's Animus to just not fight him, at all, and hope that I can get some damage off with bloodtrackers. I'm not all that sure to be honest.

Harbringer is my least favorite caster to face regardless of faction, and circle looks worse than legion for matchups.

[Razious]

Bestial will do nothing to protect your upkeeps since harby has a so much larger control area and can just stand outside Kromac's control and purify everything away.

This is why killbox is so popular.

[Marchant06]

We will be playing SR 2012, so I'm sure it's bound to come up. A large amount of the games that came up during the first half came down to secondary or tertiary objectives, which is kinda what I'm thinking of playing for. If the game is kill box I think that I will end up with Kromac, and try and force and sacrifice to either get a primaled something, or Kromac in beast form onto her face. If it's one where she can sit at the back I'm not really sure. It's not at all page 5, but I might try and stay towards the back, or go second and rush one side. I might be able to deny half the board and fall back when she feats, but that might be giving up control points.

[Patuljak]

I've got no idea how to beat Harbringer myself, as I haven't played against her yet, but as a note, Purification removes Undergrowth as well. I wouldn't rely on that.

In theory, your best bet for facing Harby is beast heavy. eKaya for the win.

[null_sheen]

in my experience Harby players don't usualy use her in kill box.

Just to make your head spin a little more my personal go to caster against warmachine in pKrueger because they normally spam infantry and he deals with high def low arm so well. Banes, winterguard, daughters, errants, mage hunters, ATGNM ect.

Krueger the Stormwrath (*5pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Feral Warpwolf (9pts)
* Woldwarden (9pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Tharn Bloodweavers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Blackclad Wayfarer (2pts)

If you want more Magic resistance and control (and seriously say FU to Cryx) swap the Gators for Druids + UA.

I have found that in general you want the hitting power of the gators though.

[Marchant06]

I've tried him before a couple of times and I'm not too sure how much I like him. Also 5/7 other people are going to be bringing hordes, So I don't want to tailor too much.
Ty though! I am going to go with the above mentioned lists