Survey: Your BEST SR 2012 list at 50pts!

[paradox]

I'm curious what you feel the BEST SR 2012 list is at 50 pts. Assume the tournament is 3 list required, character-restricted.

What is the STRONGEST/BEST/MOST COMPETITIVE list Protectorate can bring in the format. I know that the hypo calls for 3 lists, but I want to know what you feel the strongest is and why.

[paradox]

This would be my submission:

Harbinger of Menoth +5 points
* Reckoner 8 points
* Templar 8 points
* Hierophant 2 points

Avatar of Menoth 11 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
Daughters of the Flame 5 points
10 Exemplar Errants 8 points
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard 2 points
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist 2 points
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord 2 points
The Covenant of Menoth 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
3 Wracks 1 point

Harbie: 1. Lock-out feat. Early game feating to lock a bulk of the opposing force plays hell on peoples plans in general, and on their chances of getting a scenario win/tie-breaker. It also allows you the chance to get a leg up on the same, plus board position. I think this is strong in SR 2012 and one of Harbie's best assets.
2. Purification. I can afford to forego Eiryss because Harbie can remove upkeeps.
3. Awe + Ashen Veil. I wanted 2 reckoners. I may consider making the templar a 2nd reckoner.
4. Crusader's Call is a nice situational SPD buff.
5. Martyrdom is a cornercase ability IMO. Otherwise, it's a trap. But keeping the Book alive at will is irritating to many.
6. Cataclysm. She can deliver the hard hits in a pinch. Another reason I don't feel bad skipping Eiryss here, as I can overcome many camps with double Cataclysms.
7. 10 focus. Speaking of camping....

Hierophant Probably one of my crutches. Too good not to take, especially with Harbie.

Reckoner As noted, great for 8pts. The Awe/Ashen Veil lulz. The gun. A heavy hitter. Assault. Worth taking in any list. As noted, I may end up at 2, were I to play this list.

Templar Initially, I had a 2nd unit of daughters and Idrians in place of EE ( I love Idrians!). Dropping that out game me the 2nd ARM21 'jack, though. This is very handy later-game for maintaining contest/control. Lots of ARM, a beater, and beat-back. As lulzy as 2x Ashen Veil is, being hard to kill and able to reposition enemy heavies is a huge factor in zone/board control. I felt I needed one.

Avatar A real beater with board control. I feel burning him on Harbie is a little iffy, but worthwhile. He cements my heavy hitting and helps keep models from going where I don't want them.

Vassal I'm pretty sure the Avatar is 13pts and comes with one of these attached.

Wracks Yup.

Covenant Not as amazing as many people think, but pretty damned good. Mainly, I'm thinking I'd like to remain on my feet to block LoS to Harbie. I would not terribly miss it in another list, so it's fine to burn here. No spells vs many Hordes lists too. Tee hee.

Choir Nuff said.

Daughters Plus Piper on early jam, then what lives acrobats into the rear and starts murdering juicy support. I started out with 2 units, and I really do want that 2nd unit still. But 1 + EE (or idrians if I could fit them) should work well enough on early jam.

Errants + UA I've gotten so much more out of idrians that EE are 2nd string for me. That said, the pt-difference was the break here. I lose out on the hitting power of idrians for the not-so-much-better durability of EE. They are still annoyingly tar-pitty though, and can hit decently. I suppose I have better contest/control potential in them. In any event, AD meat to take heat off daughters. No spells is pretty fun stuff there too.

Gorman He has to be in a list somewhere. I'd consider dropping him OR Piper, potentially. They may be more needed elsewhere. But Black Oil is fabulous and smoke really helps Harbie live vs alot of things. Rust and Acid Bomb really round out the toolkit. The real question is, do I need him more here than another list? He's currently in because I want the strongest list.

Piper As noted above, I'm not sure I'd want to burn both in one list. But he loves on daughters, idrians, and EE all day long. As above, the real question is whether he's needed more in another list, but to present the best foot, he's here.

[R0113R C045T3R]

My little addition. Probably not the best list but it'll do really well against slower armies and decently against melee centric armies. The nice thing about Severius is that he has so much focus that you can easily fuel all your jacks and still upkeep your spells. With the Hiero and wrack you'll have your 7-8 focus to locate even when upkeeping 2-3 spells.

Grand Scrutator Severius (*6pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Hierophant (2pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard (4pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

I'll go through the benefits more for my sake then yours, most of you know all this but I like to type.

Sevy: He gives everyone +1 to attack and damage rolls through Eye of Menoth, when paired with choir the Reckoner will be hitting at RAT 8, +2 if it's aiming. Defence ward on are TFG brings them up to Def/Arm 15. Now if we get 'em B2B thats Arm 19.

Redeemer: Through the miracle that is Menoth we are able to make the lowest RAT anything to something that can hit with the like the rest of the pack. With EoM, Choir and Aim we get Rat 6. Aim for the Reckoners flair and we got a solid RAT 8 warjack with a 21" threat range.

Reckoner: It's mostly here because more redeemers would be just like button mashing. It provides some good synergy for the redeemers and can dish it out with the best of them as well as soak up damage.

Choir: Now I wasn't to sure about these guys but I needed 3pts.... sarcasm off.

Knights Exemplar: Are for when the enemy has hit that initial line of TFG, you use these boys to charge through and take out the enemies initial strike. Plus Blessed and Magic weapons are super handy.

Temple flamegaurd + UA: These guys do some pretty awesome awesome stuff for the amount of points they cost. Super tough 19Arm when everything buffed up, reach and they can be ignored in LoS which means to me that I can get 2 free strikes half of the time (unit B2B with the unit that got pasted) and I can shoot over top of it which is its main reason for being in my list.

Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard: Just about er'ything about these guys rock. Weapon masters and reach; you can buff a model to ignore stealth, remove Animi and continuous effects or just remove 1 focus or fury off of an enemy.

Reclaimer: Is almost unnecessary, the good thing about it is that when you do get a ton of focus your enemy is probably close enough to us death sentence on, which could turn games around when paired with your feat.

The Wrack: always handy, especially when your command range is 16".

Vassal Mechanik: Now if you wanted an Arch Node I recommend getting rid of this guy and a redeemer and picking up Blessing of Vengeance.

Vassal of Menoth: You may wonder why I have two but the simple reason is that if one is good at 35pts 2 at 50 just makes sense.



Thats my list, hope you like it paradox. Would defiantly recommend switching it out against legion, circle, or Retribution.

[Gaston]

Needs tweaking, but:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus
-Fire of Salvation
-Hierophant
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Daughters of the Flame
Gorman Di Wulfe
Holy Zealots (max)
-Monolith Bearer
Knights Exemplar
Knights Exemplar
Knight Exemplar Seneschal
Reclaimer
Covenant of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth
Wracks

Thoughts behind this list:

Stupid fast

Daughters: Def 17 Early jam, enjoy

Monks: Zone takers, Def 17 and you effectively get 1 swing

Gorman: Because somewhere out there is a heavy that I need to blind

Zealots: Bc it's the egg man, he uses them

General thoughts: Kill someone, I dare you. Under perfect circumstances, if you kill a KE: Take a point of damage from Vindictus's feat, KE get stronger, FoS gets a free move, KE Senny powers up, KE Senny heals, Reclaimer gets a soul. 6 effects off of one guy. Perfect circumstances never happen, but getting 2-3 of those a turn is pretty easy.

[paradox]

I like the Dark Horse angle there.
I've definitely love Vindy in SR2012 so far. TP and DW are such a powerful combination, and an early feat + zealots + MB comboed in can really shut down alot of of offense early, allowing a bulk of your forces to glide into the mid-late game stage. Very anti-attrition.

[jandrese]

Here's my thought:

Testament +6
Vanquisher 8
Hierophant 2

Avatar 11
4x Choir 2
Daughters 5
eEiryss 3
5x Vengers 11
Rhupert 2
10x TFG + UA 8
Vassal Mechanik 1
Vassal 2
3x Wracks 1

So the core of this list is the ever-reviving Vengers. The Testament puts Ashen Veil on them and Gorman puts Dirge of Mists and they're a respectable DEF 15 against many foes (and cause terror). You could give them tough instead, but knocked down horses are sad horses. I had to squeeze eEiryss in because I had no upkeep hate, and Fear of God or Crippling Grasp just ruins this army. As for the rest, you have a decent number of souls that can contest or hold objectives, and the soul collection denial that comes with being the Testament. The Menofixer is just points filler, but since the list is a bit light on the heavy hitters, it probably makes sense to try to keep the Avatar alive for one extra turn if you can.

As for the character restrictions, I feel Rhupert really belongs in this list. Not only is it very infantry oriented, but he can negate failed CMD checks on CMD 8 Daughters or Choir. eEiryss is the only upkeep hate that makes sense for this list (Gravus would steal souls) and she plays nice with the Avatar for a bonus. The Avatar could be swapped for a different jack if you really wanted him in a different list (maybe Harby theme list?), but he's nicely focus independent so you can put out a maximum number of revives per turn.

As long as you can keep the Horses alive and have your feat ready, you'll be able to control the board quite a bit.

[jandrese]

Redeemer: Through the miracle that is Menoth we are able to make the lowest RAT anything to something that can hit with the like the rest of the pack. With EoM, Choir and Aim we get Rat 6. Aim for the Reckoners flair and we got a solid RAT 8 warjack with a 21" threat range.

Seems to me you either get effective RAT 8 OR 21" threat range. Your choices are RAT 8 at 16" threat or RAT 6 at 21" threat.

That said, so many AoEs in a timed setting don't seem like a great idea to me. I get that you're planning to have them directly hit a lot, but in practice you're going to see a fair number of scatters off of those, and they're going to eat your turns up.

[Gaston]

Testament +6
Vanquisher 8
Hierophant 2

Avatar 11
4x Choir 2
Daughters 5
eEiryss 3
5x Vengers 11
Rhupert 2
10x TFG + UA 8
Vassal Mechanik 1
Vassal 2
3x Wracks 1

Consider this net-decked, it looks like stupid fun to play I actually don't think there'd be much of an issue in this list with Gravus; he can only get souls off of the Vengers so there's not a huge overlap with ToM (not to mention he fills up at 3).

Here's another one that I found to be awesome fun (could likely use tweaking):

High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza
-Dervish
-Dervish
-Templar
-Templar
-Templar
-Hierophant
Choir of Menoth (max)
Dannon Blythe & Bull
Holy Zealots (max)
-Monolith Bearer
Reclaimer
The Wrack
Vassal of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth

[paradox]

Here's my thought:

Testament +6
Vanquisher 8
Hierophant 2

Avatar 11
4x Choir 2
Daughters 5
eEiryss 3
5x Vengers 11
Rhupert 2
10x TFG + UA 8
Vassal Mechanik 1
Vassal 2
3x Wracks 1

So the core of this list is the ever-reviving Vengers. The Testament puts Ashen Veil on them and Gorman puts Dirge of Mists and they're a respectable DEF 15 against many foes (and cause terror). You could give them tough instead, but knocked down horses are sad horses. I had to squeeze eEiryss in because I had no upkeep hate, and Fear of God or Crippling Grasp just ruins this army. As for the rest, you have a decent number of souls that can contest or hold objectives, and the soul collection denial that comes with being the Testament. The Menofixer is just points filler, but since the list is a bit light on the heavy hitters, it probably makes sense to try to keep the Avatar alive for one extra turn if you can.

As for the character restrictions, I feel Rhupert really belongs in this list. Not only is it very infantry oriented, but he can negate failed CMD checks on CMD 8 Daughters or Choir. eEiryss is the only upkeep hate that makes sense for this list (Gravus would steal souls) and she plays nice with the Avatar for a bonus. The Avatar could be swapped for a different jack if you really wanted him in a different list (maybe Harby theme list?), but he's nicely focus independent so you can put out a maximum number of revives per turn.

As long as you can keep the Horses alive and have your feat ready, you'll be able to control the board quite a bit.

Definitely dig it. So, basically drive to assassination while avoiding getting scenarioed. I assume the daughters are there to just contest if you end up with a split field scenaio, like the middle flag dropping out.

[Andross]

Army Name: flying circus
Protectorate of Menoth
50+6 points, 42 models

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow +6 points
* Blood of Martyrs 9 points
* Hierophant 2 points

4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
Daughters of the Flame 5 points
Daughters of the Flame 5 points
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution 3 points
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon 3 points
10 Idrian Skirmishers 10 points
* Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide 3 points
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan 2 points
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance 3 points
Reclaimer 2 points
Saxon Orrik 2 points
The Covenant of Menoth 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
3 Wracks 1 point

All about maximum mobility, and multiple threat angles, almost all of which can make non-linear threats on an opposing caster, even before you use Thyra's feat.

Daughters jam in early, while the Idrians make maximum use of Stealth, Dig In and Prey to dominate the center of the field, while the Reclaimer sucks up their souls to power Blood of Martyrs on the next turn, while using Eiryss to manage upkeeps that make it difficult for you to keep the tempo high for your side of the board. End game is normally a Carnage boosted Prey CMA, or Blood of Martyrs side stepping his way to victory as a 2" sidestep on a large base is a surprisingly large area. Nicia and Vilmon are nice reach weapon masters for keeping the opponent honest, and because I have a horrid habit of failing command checks on the Idrians, so I bring along a command 10 buddy to make the checks off of, you could drop him and Eiryss to bring a Revenger, I've had limited success doing that. Main thing about the list though is the huge AD wave, followed up by a much more mobile force than most people seem to be accustomed to facing when you plunk down Protectorate armies. Does have a high number of Character Models, but other than Vilmon and possibly Madelyn, this is the only list I use most of them in.

[tzeentchling]

I like the Harbinger list, and that's very close to what I play. I swap out the Templar for a Vanquisher though, because I think it could use more infantry punch, and because I like the Vanquisher too much. I also drop Rhupert because I want him in another list, and instead take an Errant Seneschal.

The list I use Rhupert in is:
eSeverius +6
Reckoner 8
Revenger 6
Vanquisher 8
Templar 8

Min choir 2
Daughters 5
Max Zealots + UA 8
Rhupert 2
Reclaimer 2
Vassal 2
Rhoven & Co. 4
Wracks 1

When the Sanctifier comes out, he'll replace the Templar and Reclaimer, and I'll max the choir. Rhupert helps the Daughters first turn, maybe second, otherwise helps the Zealots with Tough or Pathfinder. There's just enough shooting to make an Awareness assassination viable, but it's not forced into it. The Templar/Sanctifier is a really great heavy. Rhoven is in the list to deal with animi and stealth. I've found it to be a remarkably viable list with no truly bad matchups save some Ret lists. His feat will sometimes be useless, and sometimes will absolutely wreck the enemy, and can win many objective missions. The only issue is with scenarios that force your caster to come far forward, since he doesn't want to be much more than 10" from the board edge.

[tzeentchling]

Needs tweaking, but:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus
-Fire of Salvation
-Hierophant
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Daughters of the Flame
Gorman Di Wulfe
Holy Zealots (max)
-Monolith Bearer
Knights Exemplar
Knights Exemplar
Knight Exemplar Seneschal
Reclaimer
Covenant of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth
Wracks

Thoughts behind this list:

Stupid fast

Daughters: Def 17 Early jam, enjoy

Monks: Zone takers, Def 17 and you effectively get 1 swing

Gorman: Because somewhere out there is a heavy that I need to blind

Zealots: Bc it's the egg man, he uses them

General thoughts: Kill someone, I dare you. Under perfect circumstances, if you kill a KE: Take a point of damage from Vindictus's feat, KE get stronger, FoS gets a free move, KE Senny powers up, KE Senny heals, Reclaimer gets a soul. 6 effects off of one guy. Perfect circumstances never happen, but getting 2-3 of those a turn is pretty easy.

I like the list, but I would consider replacing the Reclaimer and finding 3 points somewhere to take Gravus. Maybe drop the Covenant too and find a point somewhere. He keeps the Knights on their feet, collects souls, and hits like a truck, plus he has dispel (which the list otherwise lacks) and can move ridiculously far on a charge with True Path.

[jandrese]

Definitely dig it. So, basically drive to assassination while avoiding getting scenarioed. I assume the daughters are there to just contest if you end up with a split field scenaio, like the middle flag dropping out.

Pretty much. They are there to be ADed and fast so you don't lose on scenario against certain casters. They also jam up enemy units and contest zones. They also make an excellent Ashen Veil unit for round 1 and 2 before you put it on the Vengers.

[jandrese]

Consider this net-decked, it looks like stupid fun to play I actually don't think there'd be much of an issue in this list with Gravus; he can only get souls off of the Vengers so there's not a huge overlap with ToM (not to mention he fills up at 3).

Well, if you wanted Gravus in there you could drop eEiryss and the TFG UA. The nice thing is that he could get more than 5 souls total with the Vengers being revived, and you can use Tough on Rhupert without knocking them down. I still kind of prefer having them killed though, since it means they can be revived back from the front lines and can charge again. Depends how much heat they're going to take I guess.

[PG_Deist]

I just picked up the models to field this list. It is Chunky's Harby Pirate list....and it looks nuts!

Harbinger of Menoth (*5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Sea Dog Crew (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Attendant Priest (2pts)
Sea Dog Crew (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Attendant Priest (2pts)
Anastasia di Bray (2pts)
Doc Killingsworth (2pts)
First Mate Hawk (2pts)
Lord Rockbottom (2pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)

4+ tough, weapon masters, who can gain benefits from awe and martyrdom....stupid good. I personally would drop the reclaimer for gorman or someone else. But this looks Bananas!

[jandrese]

Yeah, with just the Reckoner in there you could do without the Reclaimer, I would lean more towards the Vassal for that second ranged shot or maybe Enliven on the Avatar. Or you could take a Hierophant for effectively 1 free Martyr per turn. With 4+ tough and Martyrdom those Pirates need never die.

You can put Guided Hand on the Pirates to really really make sure they hit (MAT 7 + 4D6 on melee attacks if I'm not mistaken). That said, it looks like a ridiculous amount of tarpitting but a little light on the hitting power. Basically lots and lots of POW 10s, even though they're laser guided accurate.

I would reduce the choir to minimum and take some Wracks too. Free focus is always good and you're only running two jacks anyway.

Finally, let me express my surprise that the vanilla Sea Dog unit is 5/8. MAT 5 P+S 8 troops (admittedly with Gang) without reach and DEF 13 ARM 12 CMD 7 and they cost as much as an elite unit? What is this I don't even. Ok, so point blank is alright, but that's RAT 6 POW 12 if you're benfitting from Gang, and worthless otherwise.

[PG_Deist]

The choir is already at a min unit. I agree that dropping the reclaimer for probably a vassal is the best choice. I love the idea of deploying anastasia behind those sea dogs. Helps ensure she makes it till the end to get her espionage off. Undying seadogs rolling 3 or 4 dice on damage should eventually eat its way through just about anything. The Avatar is there is there is a really tough nut. Pathfinder from the UAs+ Crusader's Call is really sweet too. Never have to worry about incorporeal stuff either.

Also point blank means you use your Mat, nor Rat. So your pistols are base 7 to hit.

[stormshaft]

4+ tough, weapon masters, who can gain benefits from awe and martyrdom....stupid good. I personally would drop the reclaimer for gorman or someone else. But this looks Bananas!

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but how do the pirates get "weapon master"?

[PG_Deist]

First Mate Hawk gives them an additional die on damage while in her command.

[stormshaft]

I have totally missed that (or my fever is higher than I expected).
Thanks for clearing that up.

[FC17]

First Mate Hawk gives them an additional die on damage while in her command.

Only against warrior models I believe.