Ghost Sniper Vs. Heavy Rifle Team

[Baptism By Ice]

Which one do you prefer? I've been debating this, and it seems that under anyone but Ossyan, the GS is better and more reliable, unless you are firing at medium-based infantry. If you are using them as anti-heavy support, I think I might rather have a three damage shot that can be directed wherever you want it (adios, arc node) than four to five damage (on average) randomly distributed. At the same time though, POW7 with AP is pretty good, especially when you double down on them and are putting out 8-10 damage on a jack each turn. That damage output is much more than the directed 6 damage, and from 14" away means that those 4pts of HRT can pump out 16-20 damage on a heavy. That's really good. Thus, I am conflicted - which one is more preferred/ideal? Your thoughts?

[bakaryu]

The sniper in my opinion is better for two reasons:

Firstly he has stealth, this helps keep his *** alive.
Secondly he can move and shoot, giving him a 6" greater threat range than the Rifle team.

Also if you lose one of the Rifle team they drop to RAT5 which always sucks.

[TIEActor]

I'm a bigger fan of the HRT. Sit them in the back, plink at stuff and if he has dragoons/med base infantry or cav, he can kiss them goodbye. You are right that they murder stuff on ossy's feat turn since its usually dice minus 3 or so on 3 dice. I've one shotted Durgah wrath, man o wars and also put a big hit on butcher with those. Like the the MHA though they tend to be a gamble, your damage will vary vs. the ghost sniper which is a nice solid 3 pts of damage. so it depends on if your a gambling man or not.

[Demeritus]

They do compete for the same points but they can be used for similar reasons but I think they were designed for different reasons. The Ghost Sniper is great to deal with single wound solos, and thinning units as well as popping some guaranteed damage on jacks/beasts to a particular column and aspect. The HRT imo is designed to deal with multiwound infantry as well as being able to put more potential damage on jacks/beasts. While the GS caps @ 3 points the HRT can do up to 9 points of damage per shot to a Khador heavy and on average will do 4.

The HRT does require more planning to use and thought and they are indeed harder to use than the GS but when you get that one big shot on a jack off it is nice. I do find that the range works fine for me as this a game that favours melee and it isn't hard to close or get your opponents to close to 14". As I am now back to playing my Ret (so glad the Vyre jacks dropped) I will be practicing with the HRT more and I used them before I put Ret on hiatus. If you'd like, I can keep updating this thread with my play experience with using the HRT.

[Watchtower]

I prefer the Ghost Sniper. He can always contest if you need him to. HRT can't do that.

[Murkhadh]

Ghost snipers w/o a doubt, its not even close.

The HRT, your opponent has to let you fire it since it can't move and shoot. They can sit > 14 inches away from it, then advance and take it out before it does anything quite easily. It has poor defensive stats.

The ghost sniper can not only move and shot but it has defense 14 and stealth.

[Chip]

I like the Heavy Rifle team with Ossyan - just the two shots on Feat turn makes it all worthwhile. I think it depends on how many 'jacks or beasts your regular opponents take - I'm in a fairly 'jack heavy group, so the AP shots count for more than 3 guaranteed damage.

[Murkhadh]

I like the Heavy Rifle team with Ossyan - just the two shots on Feat turn makes it all worthwhile. I think it depends on how many 'jacks or beasts your regular opponents take - I'm in a fairly 'jack heavy group, so the AP shots count for more than 3 guaranteed damage.

Those two shots are easy to avoid and after feat turn there only blah.

[FenrirsVice]

Ghost sniper any day of the week.

If the HRT had anything else tacked onto it I would consider it, stealth, or the ability to move or shoot, or even just 2 extra inches of range I would soooooo play it, but as is. nope.

[Kallas]

Ghost Sniper has;
+1 DEF
+2 SPD
+2 RAT (either the same range at higher RAT or moving and shooting at...being able to)
-1 ARM
+ Stealth
+ Pathfinder
+ Camouflage (not really important...but still)
+ Swift Hunter (if ever you fire normally)
+ 3 Boxes (vs 2x 1 box)

The HRT has Armour Piercing on POW 7, which puts out more damage on average against most things and has good potential for more.

So, if you want reliable, accurate, survivable damage that you have control over, take the Ghost.

If you are a gambler or want to risk no damage vs high, like an MHA, and are okay with distinctly less manoeuvrability and survivability, take the HRT.

The HRT is worse most of the time. It's very niche - its a heavy infantry killer. And even then it's not the best thing ever;

(Name, Boxes)

vs Khador;
Shocktrooper, 8: -6 in Shield Wall
Bombardier/Demo Corps, 8: -1
Uhlans, 5: -4 in Defensive Line

vs Menoth;
Bastions, 8: -1
Cinerators, 8: -2
Vengers, 5: -2, -4 with Battle-Driven

vs Skorne;
Arcuarii, 8; -1
Cetrati, 8; -1, -5 in Shield Wall
Ferox, 5; -2
Ancestral Guardian, 10; -2

vs Cryx;
vs Stalker, 18: +/-0
vs Black Ogrun, 8; -1
vs Bloodgorgers, 1; -1
vs Brute Thralls, 8; +/-0
vs Soulhunters, 5; -1
vs Slaughterborn, -2

Circle;
vs Wolf Riders, 5; +/-0
vs Tharn, 8; +/-0
vs Skinwalkers, 8; -1

Legion;
vs Raptors, 5; -1
vs Ogrun, 8; -1
vs Hellion, 10; -1

Trolls; (-2 to everything from the Krielstone)
vs Champions, 8; -1, -3 with Defensive Line
vs Long Riders, 8; -2
vs Runeshapers, 5; -1

So, there are a few things it is really solid against but most of the time they're not one-shotting heavy infantry and most medium infantry are surviving too. The Ghost is simply more reliable.

The HRT is fine and decent. If it had even +2 RNG, I think it'd be perfectly placed.

[syresyphirin]

I'm definitely not here to argue against the notion that a ghost sniper is a better investment than the HRT, but I had to say that in a faction with telekinesis and a bajillion (slight exaggeration) flavors of battle mage, the "your opponent has to let you shoot" argument doesn't seem very convincing.

[Bean Mk. II]

Ghost sniper. No question.

[Baptism By Ice]

All fair points. And for what it's worth, the HRT probably shouldn't be able to one-shot heavy infantry, given that they're only 2pts each. That being said, outside of Ossyan, I would agree that the HRT is not worth it. Under Ossyan against a Khador heavy, the HRT can(/should) put out 11pts of damage in two turns (generally the number of turns until they reach melee), compared to the 6pts that a GS is able to direct on the same target. Under anyone else, that drops to a difference of 8tps to the same (much more precise) 6pts. Plus you only need to maneuver around one small based GS instead of the large base (leader)/small base (grunt) combo for the HRT, and as Watchtower mentioned, they can also go contest/capture control points, which can be huge.

So yes, point is, I agree - unless your meta is dominated by medium based infantry and/or heavies and/or you're a gambler and/or you're under Ossyan, GS > HRT.

[FearLord]

In general, most light artillery is fairly poor thanks to a relatively short range for a model that cannot move and fire... The HRT is no exception, which is a real shame, since its a lovely model...

[Zakion]

A team of two snipers knocks out arc nodes like no one else. cant beat it. For this alone it gets my vote.

[Murkhadh]

In general, most light artillery is fairly poor thanks to a relatively short range for a model that cannot move and fire... The HRT is no exception, which is a real shame, since its a lovely model...

This, I absolutely LOVE the model. I put them on the table on occasions just because I like the model, even though they suck. lol

[Murkhadh]

In general, most light artillery is fairly poor thanks to a relatively short range for a model that cannot move and fire... The HRT is no exception, which is a real shame, since its a lovely model...

Yea, though I do like the menoth one with psevvy, rat 8 range 16 with an aoe.

[FearLord]

Yea, though I do like the menoth one with psevvy, rat 8 range 16 with an aoe.

There are definitely exceptions - Mortars are quite good for several Khador casters for example - but the majority aren't anything to write home about - they carry a pretty good gun for the points cost with a decent range, but this is only in comparison to shooty infantry, who can of course move and fire at an increased range. For most factions and casters, there is probably a 2pt option that directly competes and is ultimately a better buy...

[TIEActor]

people keep saying 2 turns or so untill your armies reach them, am I the only one who leaves them in the back so they can keep shooting heavies? The only ones to ever reach my guns are usually flankers like man hunters or lord of the feast or so. My rifle crews rarely lack for a target and usually don't die.

[phillipsjr4]

Without the defensive stats to back them up, HRT is just such easy pickings for any of your opponent's guns. Almost every model with a ranged attack in the game out-threats them on a move + shoot basis, which is tough. Truth be told I don't like either of the models that much- I like the GS "more," but still find it a tough sell. It's in more of a fun noncompetetive slot imo.

[Mavwick]

The answer to the question is "House Shyeel Magister." They give you a ranged (Magic) option with a lot of utility in both shots, two melee weapons or a high-pow slam. I like a lot about the Ghost Sniper, but there's so many other choices in our army to make at that point cost or anywhere close to it.

[BrotherOracle]

The answer to the question is "House Shyeel Magister." They give you a ranged (Magic) option with a lot of utility in both shots, two melee weapons or a high-pow slam. I like a lot about the Ghost Sniper, but there's so many other choices in our army to make at that point cost or anywhere close to it.

That slam attack is so killer, I really wish Artificers would of got a throw combo attack.

[Rampaging Elk]

I love the Ghost Snipers. For extra fun, add in pEyriss for 9 points of damage on a heavy where you want the damage done in addition to... well, to having pEyriss.

[newsun]

people keep saying 2 turns or so untill your armies reach them, am I the only one who leaves them in the back so they can keep shooting heavies? The only ones to ever reach my guns are usually flankers like man hunters or lord of the feast or so. My rifle crews rarely lack for a target and usually don't die.

I've never run them, but they are artillery, so this is how I would play them.

Also why not run them in conjunction to with AFG and snipers? AFG, 2 GS, pEiryss, 2 HRT is a lot of armor threat, fill to taste with houseguard or whatever.