50pt Garryth: Help filling last few points

[Shadow_Stalker]

Hey guys.

Recently created a new list which I've started collecting, however after a bit of tinkering, I'm having trouble filling the last two points. Here's the core of the list:

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA (11)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- House Shyeel Artificer (3)
- Lady Aiyana & Holt (4)

Now this leaves me with 3 its to spend. I could add a Souless to the Sentinels unit and have a multitude of 2 its solos or the Heavy Rifle Team, yet at the 3 point band I have the choice of the following:

- p or e Eiryss
- Narn
- A second Artificer (think this would be quite fun!)

Which would you guys choose and why??

Cheers!

[Shadow_Stalker]

Sorry for the bump, but does nobody have any thoughts? I'm starting to buy the core of the army so would be great to get some feedback.

Thanks!

[Zakion]

i would personnally drop the other artificer put in a thane and an assasin. I would probably not have disco either but thta may be changing your list up a bit much

[Shadow_Stalker]

Thanks for the feedback Zakion.

I presume you mean the destor thane solo? I've not seen those often in people's list, so why do you think I should get him in?

I was thinking the Artificer would help out with his DEF buff, but I do like the ret cavalry!

Why no Discordia? She seems pretty awesome on paper lol

[Zakion]

Disco is good don't get me wrong I'm just a 1 jack man as our infantry is so good and I feel u need an arc node with garryth. The thane IMO is one of if not our best solo pieces, especially combined with death sentence. Think of him this way u death sentence a standard unit of inf wither its banes, cygnar inf etc destor charges in, can inpact attack on the charge model and if ur luck a nearby friend and the star attacks another 4 targets. I've had him take out 6 inf before and with death sentence it's just gonna be That more reliable. Not to mention he's extremely tough and needs ands a decent commitment to take out. Destors however are not nearly as effective as our thane counterpart and if ur like the models of our cav invest in 2 thanes rather than our lack luster cav unit.

[Tirrith]

I actually like the list you have and would add eEiryss with the extra 3 points. Other than that, it's a matter of opinion. Just make sure you get good use out of Death Sentence, especially on the Archers, critical dmg from Stormfalls added with Aiyana and Holt would be very effective (pwr 14's with 3 dice damage)!

[Shadow_Stalker]

Disco is good don't get me wrong I'm just a 1 jack man as our infantry is so good and I feel u need an arc node with garryth.

I can't disagree with you on the Infantry, but I've always been into Warmachine because of the jacks and in my other faction I usually run a minimum of three, so going down to two is quite soemthing for me lol Plus they're both awesome models!

The thane IMO is one of if not our best solo pieces, especially combined with death sentence. Think of him this way u death sentence a standard unit of inf wither its banes, cygnar inf etc destor charges in, can inpact attack on the charge model and if ur luck a nearby friend and the star attacks another 4 targets. I've had him take out 6 inf before and with death sentence it's just gonna be That more reliable. Not to mention he's extremely tough and needs ands a decent commitment to take out...

Ok so you've pretty much sold me on the Destor Thane

So, if I go for the Thane option, this is the list I know have:

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA (11)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- Dawnguard Destor Thane (4)
- Lady Aiyana & Holt (4)

Now that leaves me with the dilema of which 2pt solo to go for. Unfortunately I'm really not a fan of the Mage Hunter Assassin model so that's out. That leaves me with the following to choose from:

- Lanyssa Ryssl : Mainly for Hunters Mark. Free charges for my jacks would help Garryths FOC. +2" Movement useful too.
- Ghost Sniper : Looks cool.
- Heavy Rifle Team : The Barratt of the Warmachine world. Very tempted, but never heard much good about it.

I actually like the list you have and would add eEiryss with the extra 3 points. Other than that, it's a matter of opinion. Just make sure you get good use out of Death Sentence, especially on the Archers, critical dmg from Stormfalls added with Aiyana and Holt would be very effective (pwr 14's with 3 dice damage)!

Thanks for the feedback Tirrith. Why would you go for eEiryss over her prime version? And would you not rate Narn over either?

I certainly need to remember that with the Death Sentance / Stormfall combo!

[Zakion]

What about a magister? very helpful for gettting things into charge range and comboing it with gallows you have a good potential for alot of movement schenanagins (sp?). I agree with Tirrith however, if your going to take an Eiryss my basic rule for ret is does the caster have a boost to hit feat ie Rahn or Rayvn. If yes consider P Eiryss if no take E to debuff iron flesh.

[Tirrith]

eEyriss has the advantage of removing upkeep spells. Great against Horde armies.

[MikeC103]

You are shooting yourself in the foot by avoiding the Mage Hunter Assassin just because you don't like the model! It is a great solo and just plain deadly. Anyone who has played against one knows they have to deal with it before it gets near their caster or else. While they are focused on taking out the MHA, your other units/models are free to get closer and deal rightous any elf death.
I am begging you to reconsider the Mage Hunter Assassin.

[Shadow_Stalker]

I am begging you to reconsider the Mage Hunter Assassin.

Well, if you insist

Admitedly, I had neglected the Decapitation ability when looking at her capabilities. My experience is that POW9 WM don't really cut it enough in melee...but the Decapitation really offsets that...

Now all I need to do is find a better alternative model!!

Having the Destor Thane and the MHA in the force would give me some nice fast moving threats that, as you point out, give my opponent something to deal with while the (not slow at all) rest of the force moves up under covering fire from the Stormfalls.

I presume you would only send in MHAs in against solos and the enemy caster/lock?

[Murkhadh]

Well, if you insist

Admitedly, I had neglected the Decapitation ability when looking at her capabilities. My experience is that POW9 WM don't really cut it enough in melee...but the Decapitation really offsets that...

Now all I need to do is find a better alternative model!!

Having the Destor Thane and the MHA in the force would give me some nice fast moving threats that, as you point out, give my opponent something to deal with while the (not slow at all) rest of the force moves up under covering fire from the Stormfalls.

I presume you would only send in MHAs in against solos and the enemy caster/lock?

Pow 9 weaponmasters are still good weaponmasters, its fairly common for a weaponmaster to be only pow 9.

You send a mha against lots of things, with a lucky dice roll you can one shot a light jack and nearly one shot a heavy. They are almost always wreck face or do nothing though, but when the roll goes your way, they do insane damage.

[Murkhadh]

Well, if you insist

Admitedly, I had neglected the Decapitation ability when looking at her capabilities. My experience is that POW9 WM don't really cut it enough in melee...but the Decapitation really offsets that...

Now all I need to do is find a better alternative model!!

Having the Destor Thane and the MHA in the force would give me some nice fast moving threats that, as you point out, give my opponent something to deal with while the (not slow at all) rest of the force moves up under covering fire from the Stormfalls.

I presume you would only send in MHAs in against solos and the enemy caster/lock?

Pow 9 weaponmasters are still good weaponmasters, its fairly common for a weaponmaster to be only pow 9.

You send a mha against lots of things, with a lucky dice roll you can one shot a light jack and nearly one shot a heavy. They are almost always wreck face or do nothing though, but when the roll goes your way, they do insane damage.

[Zakion]

I send mine into beasts and jacks as murk was saying they can do alot of damage. Ive also had two kill the Big T man with a sexy 21 inch threat range ( including tele ing him), I know ill never set that up again. Just look at the numbers tho, pow 9 maybe low but on arm 18 things on avarage its doing around 12 damage, throw in Holt and co and thats another 4 damage, yes you can fluff the rolls but when you get that lucky hit boy is it worth it. Also death sentance helps negate the annoying MHA misses.

[joelker41]

That Garryth list has an extreme lack of Madelyn Corbeau.

You should consider putting her in there.

Jack wise I don't see an arc node as a necessity, but if you wanted one I would just run a Banshee with a Chimera. Just use the Arcanist to power the Arc Node while it runs around.

I just feel whenever I put a Phoenix out to Arc spells for him it usually dies because he has no way to protect it like literally all of our other casters can (Admonition, Telekinesis after, Polarity Shield, Kaelyssa feat, Involiable Resolve) etc.

[MMMMK]

You might consider a Banshee instead of Disco, and might also consider jack marshalling that Banshee to the Sentinels. Garryth likes to spend his focus rather than allocate it to his 'jacks, imo, so marshalling is a good option. In return, the Banshee can very reliably (Pronto lets you get an aiming bonus and the marshall boosts to hit... means you hit defense 17-18 on average) knock down or slam a high priority target and then let everything else wail on it. This is especially important for MHA's and other weaponmasters who tend to miss their one big melee hit and then do nothing.

That or a marshalled Daemon. I feel like Disco just doesn't jive as well with this list as it does in others.

[Murkhadh]

I always think the banshee is too awesome in melee to marshall, sphinx and daemon are good marshalled though

The disco is good with Garryth because death sentence is awesome on his spray and garrth is arm 14 so boosted blast damage can hurt him.

[bakaryu]

The thane IMO is one of if not our best solo pieces, especially combined with death sentence. Think of him this way u death sentence a standard unit of inf wither its banes, cygnar inf etc destor charges in, can inpact attack on the charge model and if ur luck a nearby friend and the star attacks another 4 targets. I've had him take out 6 inf before and with death sentence it's just gonna be That more reliable. Not to mention he's extremely tough and needs ands a decent commitment to take out. Destors however are not nearly as effective as our thane counterpart and if ur like the models of our cav invest in 2 thanes rather than our lack luster cav unit.

There are several serious errors in regards to your reasoning here Zakion.

First of all if an impact attack kills your charge target it is a failed charge as you did not end your movement in melee with your charge target (impact attacks interrupt movement to resolve).
Secondly you cannot quad fire on the charge, you can only use special attacks attached to a melee weapon if you charge. This is the same reason a Phoenix cannot charge and combust.

Those reasons aside however I do agree that a Destor Thane is one of our best solos, DEF13 ARM17 (plus unyielding) and 10 boxes makes him second only to Skeryth Issyen for survivability amongst our solos. On top of that he is accurate enough that you can count on getting at least 2 or 3 hits at a time with his ranged attack even without aiming, more if you are using Death Sentence.

You also left out what I feel is one of the biggest draws to the Thane, the fact that he is a commander with CMD10. Garryth and Ossyan in particular have very lacklustre CMD stats and if you are relying on houseguard and stormfalls you can always find a use for CMD10.

[Shadow_Stalker]

That Garryth list has an extreme lack of Madelyn Corbeau.

You should consider putting her in there.

Being a Reznik player, I origianlly did as I was thinking as Garryth as an assination caster. Even though he does have the option, I've read a few places in this forum that he supports his army first, then is a ranged guy followed by being a melee caster last.

Admitedly Madelyn is a very useful Merc to have, but I decided against her in this particular list just so I could try some of the Ret solos. Plus it forces me not to try and go for the assassination with Garryth while learning to use him. May swap her in at a later date though.

Those reasons aside however I do agree that a Destor Thane is one of our best solos, DEF13 ARM17 (plus unyielding) and 10 boxes makes him second only to Skeryth Issyen for survivability amongst our solos...

With that in mind, would it be worth considering Skeryth over the Destor Thane? On paper he seems pretty awesome!

I think I may now have gotten the list down to these two options:

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA (11)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- Dawnguard Destor Thane (4)
- Lady Aiyana & Holt (4)
- Mage Hunter Assassin (2)

Or

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA + Souless (12)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen (5)
- Lady Aiyana & Holt (4)

With the last list the Fane Knight could move up with Discordia following the Sentinels. Hopefully get Rightous Fury off and boom, charge in! Having a cavalry model in either list really appeals to me as Ret have some of the best looking cavalry in the game!

[MMMMK]

I love Skeryth and I love the Thane. But the two of them serve totally different roles. The Thane is all about infantry clearing and he's generally quite good at that (but is weak against very spread out units because of how multi-fire works), but Skeryth is all about a big scary 2x weaponmaster charge, so he's more about caster killing or putting big damage onto a heavy beast/jack.

Given that you already have 2x stormfalls AND Disco, you really don't need more infantry clearing redundancy in the list. Instead you need things that threaten the enemy warcaster. Also, I'd advise against A&H since you have a lot of hard hitting stuff and Holt becomes less useful because of the large amount of infantry killing tools at your disposal. I'd take the second list but drop A&H and run a pair of Mage Hunter Assassins alongside Skeryth. The three of those models will put a huge amount of heat on the enemy caster and between the three of them they can scrap a good number of heavies on the charge as well (especially if they are knocked down first). If you do that, then I think you'll have a very well rounded and competitive list.

[Tirrith]

On Madelyn: She can be used on other solos, not just Garryth. My Garryth list has 2 Assassins, Narn and Skerryth. Each one of them is a real threat to opponent casters and other important models. With the solos and Garryth spread out but within Madelyn's command, that's a lot of threat for the opponent to worry about.

[Cavocer]

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA (11)
^ Discordia (10)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- Dawnguard Destor Thane (4)
- Lady Aiyana & Holt (4)
- Mage Hunter Assassin (2)

Marshalling Disco to the Sentinels and having the Arcanists follow her around would be the only change I could suggest, or switching her out for a Banshee instead of marshalling to go for a theme of Grievous Wounds. I do find myself liking your second list more.

[bakaryu]

Can't marshal character jacks.

[Shadow_Stalker]

Thanks for all the help guys! Really appreciated the feedback in refining the list. I'm thinking i might go with MMMMK's suggestion with the following list:

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA + Souless (12)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- 2 x Mage Hunter Assassins (4)
- Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen (5)

I can always try swapping out one of the Assassins for Madelyn, or both to give A&H a go, but generally I think this list has a competitive edge while also placating my need for having cool models!! The advantage of the MHAs (even though I'm not a huge fan) is that there is already an alternative sculpt.

Now all I need to do is buy it all! Currently have Garryth, Sylys & Disco...slow start, but now I have a list I like I can go for it!

Does anybody have any tips on using the army? Never actually played a game with Ret yet, so would be great to get some pointers!

Thanks again!

[joelker41]

One of the biggest misconceptions about Ret is Garryth needs Maddy for assassination runs. He can use her for that but I find she helps him in so many more ways. The 3" of movement cab make it so you can walk up on maintenance phase, then on your activation pop out a Gallows/Death Sentence then just walk away.

She also helps his front line unit be even faster. One Sentinel can charge and hit something 15" from his starting position with Mirage and her, 18" if they got Vengeance. Also helps your MHAs be a lot faster, and she boosts command on unit leaders that are run with Garryth (MHSF and Stormfalls in this case) so they don't fail command checks.

She as can get Garryth a 22" threat with his pistols, they get Arcane Assassin as well, charging isn't even necessary to kill many squishy casters.

She is can be a great objective holder with Sucker! And a few grunts near by.

[Gho5t]

One of the biggest misconceptions about Ret is Garryth needs Maddy for assassination runs. He can use her for that but I find she helps him in so many more ways. The 3" of movement cab make it so you can walk up on maintenance phase, then on your activation pop out a Gallows/Death Sentence then just walk away.

She also helps his front line unit be even faster. One Sentinel can charge and hit something 15" from his starting position with Mirage and her, 18" if they got Vengeance. Also helps your MHAs be a lot faster, and she boosts command on unit leaders that are run with Garryth (MHSF and Stormfalls in this case) so they don't fail command checks.

She as can get Garryth a 22" threat with his pistols, they get Arcane Assassin as well, charging isn't even necessary to kill many squishy casters.

She is can be a great objective holder with Sucker! And a few grunts near by.

I definitely think Maddy is better with MHAs and Narn, overall. If the stars align and you can get Garryth in there with enough focus to take down the warnoun, go for it, but don't count on it.

Boosting an MHA up to 17" threat range is awesome, though. If you had a Banshee in there (instead of Disco, maybe) to knock down the target, it's 17" auto-hit. Also, if you do this with Garryth and fail, he's probably dead and you lost the match. Doing this with a 2 point solo is less risky but with potentially huge payoff.

Narn also benefits from Maddy without risking the game. He also has Acrobatics, so nothing gets in his way. He's a higher MAT than the MHA and has two attacks with higher POW, so he can more reliably kill. He then has Sprint, so he can dash back to safety or forward to engage another target. He doesn't usually have the threat range to compete with MHAs, but Maddy can get him close to it.

[Baffler]

- Garryth, Blade of Retribution (+5)
^ Discordia (10)
^ Phoenix (10)
^ Sylys Wyshnlyrr (2)
- Max. Sentinels + UA + Souless (12)
- 2 x Stormfall Archers (10)
- 2 x Arcanist (2)
- 2 x Mage Hunter Assassins (4)
- Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen (5)

I like this list a lot. I've been thinking of going back to Garryth (my first crush), and this list inspired me.

Here's what I would run, some minor changes... but very similar.

G-Money (+5)
Phoenix (10)
Sylys (2)
Max Sents + UA (11)
- Banshee (10)
Stormfall Archers (5)
Stormfall Archers (5)
Arcanist (1)
Arcanist (1)
Narn (3)
Fane Knight (5)
Maddy (2)

Disco is great, but you have 2 units of archers which can help clear infantry already. If you dropped the archers and took a mage hunter strike force (not saying you should)... then Disco would probably be better imo.

The plan is for Banshee to get pronto and knock stuff down, very reliably with the arcanist, then murderize it. Garryth can death sentence another target and murderize that too.

As people have already mentioned, Maddy is great with our solos, I'd try her out.

Good luck with whatever you decide though, Garryth is a lot of fun and as long as he is alive, you are still in the game.

[IridiumFire]

Been looking at doing a Retribution army for a while now. Garryth always been the caster I've considered so this thread has been quite an interesting read!

[Shadow_Stalker]

The plan is for Banshee to get pronto and knock stuff down, very reliably with the arcanist, then murderize it. Garryth can death sentence another target and murderize that too...

Yeah I like your variation too. Will probably give it a go too for some change of flavour.

With Pronto though, wouldn't you need to activate the sentinels first? Would've thought they'd be great at doing the murderising one the target was knocked down...or would you consider that to be the Phoenix's job?

I originally looked at Narn as he seems like quite a nasty solo. Once again providing a threat the opponent needs to deal with. Combined with Maddy that becomes even scarier!

[MMMMK]

I originally looked at Narn as he seems like quite a nasty solo. Once again providing a threat the opponent needs to deal with. Combined with Maddy that becomes even scarier!

Narn suffers a bit by being fairly easy to kill and having a low threat range (10.5"). Using him like an MHA, from my experience, is a bad idea. Acrobatics and Sprint allow him to work just behind a melee unit by charging in after them, killing one or two models, and sprinting out to safety. Still, he's 3 points and I can almost never fit him into a 35 pt. list or if I can then I'd rather have somehing else (like 2x MHA for a point more).