What is missing? a thought (pure wish listing from a conversation..)

[Sivad]

Was talking about Ret and what is missing from the faction at present....

After mulling it over for a while I came up with a potential unit which I saw as filling a gap and expanding the force....

Basically a House Vyre unit of medium based infantry - I imagined heavily armoured, a cross between the Artificer top half (styled like the new myrmidions) and Dawnguard legs....

Thinking on Vyres use of force manipulation they could have a larger version of Ossys gun, connected to armour by cables, with the option to either fire a single shot or Spray - if not damaged target pushed back. Not much special rules wise beyond that..... maybe continuous fire?

I know this type of thing gets done over from time to time (sorry and all that) but the image in my head was pretty cool.....

[Bully Bully Mahu]

Medium based, multi wound, elite infantry is on my wish list. We are technically the only faction with zero access to such a unit. Every other faction has their own, every hordes faction has their own with additional access to Gators.

I would expect something similar to Man-o-wars, melee centric with ranged options.

I also want an extoller soulward, but that is just me.

[Bean Mk. II]

Agree with heavy infantry.

Also, I'd like a MHSF weapon attachment--just, like, a regular MHSF grunt with a magical scope on his bow for +1 RAT and True Sight.

[AJ the Ronin]

A character unit

[FranzGrenstein]

How about a light with a gun worth a @$#$?

[bouncymischa]

Also, I'd like a MHSF weapon attachment--just, like, a regular MHSF grunt with a magical scope on his bow for +1 RAT and True Sight.

Yeah, because MHSF need to be a completely unstoppable unit with no weaknesses... :P

Now, if they gave them an alternative UA that gave out True Sight, that would be interesting -- it would make you decide "do I want to the unit with Phantom Hunter, or with True Sight?"

[MetalStorm]

Actually an interesting idea would be to give the Riflemen a WA with True Sight and RAT 7, it'd give the unit a real niche as they'd suddenly be able to provide CRA's and also Pest Control on low ARM stealth solos. Call it Rifleman Marksman and they'd have a basic Rifle with a complex scope attachment and lacking the CRA rule.

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, because MHSF need to be a completely unstoppable unit with no weaknesses... :P

Now, if they gave them an alternative UA that gave out True Sight, that would be interesting -- it would make you decide "do I want to the unit with Phantom Hunter, or with True Sight?"

I think he meant a WA that only that model has true sight. I kind of like that idea, whether it was for MHSF or the riflemen. That way you get 2-3 guys in a unit that have true sight, instead of giving true sight to every member of one of our (admittedly already formidable) ranged units.

Other stuff I want: a good ranged light, a character unit, maybe a buffing-type solo, and a heavy with 18 or 19 base P+S on its main weapon. A small unit with sprays would be pretty nifty too, but given our problems with stealth I think it would be difficult to make them both good and not end up in most lists to cover that weakness.

[Bean Mk. II]

Yeah, because MHSF need to be a completely unstoppable unit with no weaknesses... :P

Now, if they gave them an alternative UA that gave out True Sight, that would be interesting -- it would make you decide "do I want to the unit with Phantom Hunter, or with True Sight?"

Lol, well, it was a wish list. But yeah, I generally agree, and an alternate UA that gave True Sight would be a cool alternative. I think you'd end up seeing a lot of double MHSF lists, though, one with each UA.

Also, yes--I did mean that only the WA would have true sight--not the whole unit. Maybe Arcane Precision, instead. I do generally agree with you, but I don't think that such a WA would be as broken as you suggest.

[SilentSeph]

my vague wishlist? well if anyone branch off on these go for

a Soulless (kamikaze, perhaps) unit

Dawnguard Weapon Crew that fires AOEs of some sort

maybe a house shyeel unit with "half-myr-ish" models

and i would agree Vyre units and WA with true sight

[Indy]

I really like the heavy rifle. I would, however, like it much more in the hands of a light jack!

[Bean Mk. II]

No kidding. We need a hunter!

[bouncymischa]

Lol, well, it was a wish list. But yeah, I generally agree, and an alternate UA that gave True Sight would be a cool alternative. I think you'd end up seeing a lot of double MHSF lists, though, one with each UA.

Also, yes--I did mean that only the WA would have true sight--not the whole unit. Maybe Arcane Precision, instead. I do generally agree with you, but I don't think that such a WA would be as broken as you suggest.

Ahhh, my apologies then -- I think I posted that while I was feeling tired out this afternoon, so I likely jumped to the wrong conclusions.

A WA with True Sight would be fine, although I can't help but wonder if just making it a solo wouldn't be easier. But then it'd just be a GMCA, or something like that! :P

[Rogue Sun]

A character unit

This.

More specifically I'd like a mage hunter character unit that is really good at, you know, hunting mages.

Extremely specifically, I'd like this unit:

The Ghosts of Ios
Mage Hunter Character Unit

SPD7 STR 6 MAT 7 RAT 7 DEF 15 ARM 12 CMD 9 Points 6

Advanced Deployment
Pathfinder
Stealth
Fearless

Member 1
Arcane Assassin
Jack Hunter
Phantom Seeker
Granted: Whiplash – While this model is in play, models in this unit gain Whiplash. (When an enemy model misses a model with Whiplash with a magic attack, the attacking model becomes the target and is automatically hit by the attack. AOE magic attacks that miss are centered on the attacking model. The model with Whiplash is the point of origin for all these attacks)

Member 2
Arcane Assassin
Jack Hunter
Phantom Seeker
Granted: Arcane Disjunction – While this model is in play, models in this unit gain Arcane Disjunction. (While in a model’s command range that has Arcane Disjunction, enemy models pay double the focus or fury point cost to cast or upkeep spells)

Member 3
Arcane Assassin
Jack Hunter
Phantom Seeker
Granted: Witch Hunter - While this model is in play, models in this unit gain Witch Hunter. (After an enemy model casts a spell within 10˝ of a model with Witch Hunter, the model with Witch Hunter can immediately make a normal ranged attack targeting that model)

Crossbow
RNG 12 ROF 1 AOE - POW 10
Purgation - Gain an additional die on attack and damage rolls with this weapon against models with an
enemy upkeep spell on them.

Saber x2
POW 4 P+S 10
Purgation - Gain an additional die on attack and damage rolls with this weapon against models with an
enemy upkeep spell on them.

[Lord Sessadore]

Mmm, purgation. I keep thinking we should have something with purgation. I quite like your unit there.

Also, 5d6+10 damage if they charge a heavy with an upkeep - that could be a lot of fun. All three charging, say, Beast-09 under superiority (doesn't matter which upkeep, really) would do 34.5 damage if they all rolled average damage (all attacks should hit with purgation vs. DEF 10).

[Krymson1986]

I think since we're moving forward in the war we should have medium based heavy infantry. House cure should cook up something special for their dawnguard allies:

Dawnguard shock troops: unit of 5 w leader
Wounds: 7
Rat:6 mat:7 def:12 arm:17 spd:5

Arkantrik gun blade: p+s 14, reach
Arkantrik gun blade (gun): range 10 POW 12
Weapon master. Defensive line.

U.a. same stats, plus 1 to mat and rat. Granted: assault.

[Bean Mk. II]

Ahhh, my apologies then -- I think I posted that while I was feeling tired out this afternoon, so I likely jumped to the wrong conclusions.

A WA with True Sight would be fine, although I can't help but wonder if just making it a solo wouldn't be easier. But then it'd just be a GMCA, or something like that! :P

No worries, and yea. A solo could work. It'd end up looking a little like a GMCA, but I don't think you'd probably have special ammo.


I'd like to see a Character Unit, too, and I agree that it should be something that's particularly geared towards killing Mages. I like Rogue Sun's ideas, but I'd kinda like to see something more offensive--perhaps instead of Arcane Disruption and Witch Hunter, Grievous Wounds and an extra die of damage against a model with focus/fury points on it.

[Lord Sessadore]

For medium based infantry, while I'd love some dawnguard (they and the Phoenix are what got me into Retribution, after all), I keep thinking we probably won't see medium based dawnguard just because we've already got 3 dawnguard units and 2 dawnguard solos.

I think it'd be really cool to get medium based swordsmen from House Ellowuyr, instead. (They're the swordsmen, right?) And since elves aren't really the big and burly type, I agree that some kind of arcantrik suit that beefs them up and augments their apparently famous swordsmanship would be pretty nifty. Would give PP a chance to try another visual aesthetic for Retribution troops, as well.

[Demeritus]

I'd like a support based character unit.
We could definitely use a power solo (think Runewood, Joe, Tartarus etc.)
I'd like some more jack support.
We could use a way to give out pathfinder as well as only our mage hunter troops have it.
Give me a stormfall UA who gives the unit truesight and an extoller soulward type model and I am fine with that as our stealth solving.

[Rogue Sun]

The problem with giving us anti stealth is that unless it's a character unit, it becomes and auto include in every list since we're so dependent on ranged combat. If they want to give us a character that grants true sight, that would be fine since you could only include them in one list in a tournament format.

[Jack Spratt]

I´ll have ... in not particular order ...

A Shyeel light with a good gun, I mean "Cygnar Charger" good.
A unit of Multi wound heavy infantry.
An alternative upgrade to the MHSF.
A different kind of MHSF, something in the same theme, i could go with a unit of three called a "Mage Hunter Triad", Oh yes baby!
A Battle Mage character unit with some cool combos.

Pretty please

[Vicomte Athos]

An alternate Sentinel upgrade that gives them No Quarter and Take Down.

[PG_Killface]

Am i the only who wishes our character unit are the best of each type of unit....one dawnguard, mage hunter, battlemage?

[Bean Mk. II]

Am i the only who wishes our character unit are the best of each type of unit....one dawnguard, mage hunter, battlemage?

Um...

I'm guessing yes.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

For medium based infantry, while I'd love some dawnguard (they and the Phoenix are what got me into Retribution, after all), I keep thinking we probably won't see medium based dawnguard just because we've already got 3 dawnguard units and 2 dawnguard solos.

I think it'd be really cool to get medium based swordsmen from House Ellowuyr, instead. (They're the swordsmen, right?) And since elves aren't really the big and burly type, I agree that some kind of arcantrik suit that beefs them up and augments their apparently famous swordsmanship would be pretty nifty. Would give PP a chance to try another visual aesthetic for Retribution troops, as well.

What do you think of the Skorne elite infantry - Cetrati? Both in terms of feel and function.

Also, this unit you talk of, what would distinguish them from Halberdiers and Sentinels?
Are you thinking of fast infantry?

We don't actually have an anvil unit [though that might go against Elven themes] so that could be an option. They'd not be able to have weapon master though, as that'd tread on Sentinel toes. And they couldn't be too mobile, as that would blur them into Halberdier territory.

[Rogue Sun]

Am i the only who wishes our character unit are the best of each type of unit....one dawnguard, mage hunter, battlemage?

You're not the only one, but I STILL don't understand the allure of this.

Dawnguard like melee. Mage Hunters like shooting. Battlemages like magic. So how on earth would you suggest this unit actually working when one member can't do anything at range, 2 can't do much in melee and one being a spell slinger? And how do you justify this fluffwise when the established story has Mage Hunters and Dawnguard at odds with each other and battle mages believing they're Scyrah's gift to elvenkind (read: arrogant and disliking anyone who is not themselves)?

[TIEActor]

I'm down with the Stormfall archer UA, might help me bring them a little more often.
I'd like to see more fane knight like units, elvin paladins. I'm really likeing the leauge destor variants, maybe something under similar rules
An honest to goodness jack caster, the kind that has a spell that should be a feat. (Karchev, Mortenebra)
A Ranking officer which might even just allow more access to mercs
Those sword guys from the other house
A House Vyre unit (cool with these being our mediums, I saw a homebrew with a disuptor cannon that left a 3' aoe of cloud and no corpse token, loved that one)
and a partridge in a pear tree

[Lord Sessadore]

What do you think of the Skorne elite infantry - Cetrati? Both in terms of feel and function.

Also, this unit you talk of, what would distinguish them from Halberdiers and Sentinels?
Are you thinking of fast infantry?

We don't actually have an anvil unit [though that might go against Elven themes] so that could be an option. They'd not be able to have weapon master though, as that'd tread on Sentinel toes. And they couldn't be too mobile, as that would blur them into Halberdier territory.

About the cetrati, they don't seem to do much other than being really tough to remove.

I agree that having a ridiculously tough unit might not fit for the elves, so I have a feeling that if we did get medium based infantry they'd have more emphasis on hitting hard with durability second.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do to set them apart from sents and halberdiers without overshadow either and not just doing the same thing. But then, PP has made several swordsman-type units each with a different feel, so I'm confident they could come up with something. I do think that their stats would be slightly above average but they'd have an assortment of special rules that make them interesting and worth the premium we're sure to pay.

[Murkhadh]

Was there just one of these threads a few weeks ago?

[Bean Mk. II]

You're not the only one, but I STILL don't understand the allure of this.

Dawnguard like melee. Mage Hunters like shooting. Battlemages like magic. So how on earth would you suggest this unit actually working when one member can't do anything at range, 2 can't do much in melee and one being a spell slinger? And how do you justify this fluffwise when the established story has Mage Hunters and Dawnguard at odds with each other and battle mages believing they're Scyrah's gift to elvenkind (read: arrogant and disliking anyone who is not themselves)?

I don't like the idea, but I can imagine it working. Fluffwise, it's not so hard. Big battle, Ret loses, characters are captured. While being transported to their appointed gulag (they lost to Khador) they cooperate, hatch a plan, and escape. Hijinks ensue as they fight their way to freedom through enemy lines, and the shared hardship forges unbreakable bonds of lifelong whatnot and so forth. Point is, put almost anyone together in a bad enough spot, and they'll be friends once they've fought their way out. We've seen it in fantasy a thousand times.

As for mechanics:

Each has the base stats, weapons, and abilities of their of their respective units, with the following changes and extra abilities:

Dawnguard (sentinel):
+1 MAT
+1 SPD
Advanced Deploy
Fearless
Quick Strike
Granted (Flank with this model)
5 Damage

Mage Hunter (Strike Force Grunt)
+1 MAT
+1 RAT
+1 STR
Advanced Deploy
Fearless
Officer
Granted: Stealth and Pathfinder
Quick Work
Phantom Seeker
5 Damage

Battle Mage
+1 MAT
+1 Magic Ability
Advanced Deploy
Fearless
Battle Wizard
Granted: Force Barrier
Special Action (magic ability) Polarity Field (affecting the unit)
Whip Snap (instead of Force Bolt)



Now, for, say, five points, I think you'd have to agree that'd be a pretty hard-hitting unit.

That might be too many abilities, but it gets the idea across--focus on melee, have them grant the abilities it takes to make them work well together, and give the battlemage and mage hunter battle wizard and quick work so they can use their ranged abilities without focusing on them.

[Murkhadh]

As for whats missing,

A true mat buff, not a re-roll or some knockdown based stuff, something that says +2 mat.

a way to grant pathfinder

A support solo (satixis raider captain, errant seneshall etc, maybe this is where the mat buff or way to grant pathfinder comes from)

[Bean Mk. II]

As for whats missing,

A true mat buff, not a re-roll or some knockdown based stuff, something that says +2 mat.

a way to grant pathfinder

A support solo (satixis raider captain, errant seneshall etc, maybe this is where the mat buff or way to grant pathfinder comes from)

Agreed. Also, do basically think they should all come in the same piece. Frankly, that's what the Scyir should have been, instead of an (admittedly pretty reasonable) 'jack marshal.

[Watchtower]

Something with counter charge.

[Eponymous]

I'd really like a soulless Vyre unit with Take Down. Maybe Stealth, too.

[Night Haunter]

i'd love to see:

Fane Knights

House Issyen stuff (light cav? dragoons? solos? i'll take any of those)

Battle Mages with boots instead of mittens

and for a long shot, how about a small unit with lesser warlock rules on the leader? (maybe 3 light beast options, no heavies) (could even be the character unit)

[ucfan34]

Wishlist!
Casters:
1.) Gimmicky Caster (I.E. Cassius, Kaya2, Old Witch, Witch Coven) - Honestly, I don't have a good idea of what it would be. I generally don't pine for something without having something to offer, but would like something a bit more interesting than small based character X.
2.) Large Based Caster (I.E. Karchev, Darius, Terminus, Harbinger)
(Not that Ossyan isn't interesting. He's my favorite caster ATM, and I'm aware Vyros is on a horse/large base).
3.) Nyss Caster & Stormfall Archer Themed Caster

Jacks:
(Really pretty happy with our jacks)
1.) Something with Bump
2.) A small arc node - (I.E. Cryx Bonejacks)

Units:
1.) Medium bases with multiple wounds (screw you anitomical precision & Khador snipers)
2.) I really like the Rifleman WA with Truesight idea
3.) Stormfall WA that changes all of the shots a bit.
Star Strike - now causes continous fire even on a miss
Brutal shot - blast damage gains an additional die, but blast damaged is halved from POW 6 to 3.
Snipe - +2 additional inches, but cannot gain an aiming bonus
4.) 3 Man Character Unit -
Range Theme = Mage Hunters (Rogue Sun's was very well thought out. Maybe give one of the 3 a spray)
Melee Theme = Dawnguard
Support Theme = Arcanists
Range / Support Theme = Eyriss3 along with 2 other "proteges"

Solos:
1.) Eyriss3
2.) New MHA solo with Shifting Sands Stance
3.) Dahlia2 new songs + Ret Partisian

Army Wide:
1.) A way to grant pathfinder to units
2.) A true MAT buff
3.) Iron Flesh (one can dream)
4.) More 3pt options
5.) Nyss hunter rescultps by whomever sculpted the Blackfrost Shard
6.) Kaelyssa Resculpt - I actually don't find her sculpt too bad, but she's the least visually interesting IMHO.
7.) Design Aestetics for House Rhyslyrr, Ellowuyr, & Silowuyr

[RetributionBomb]

I would love to have a Nyss caster that made the Nyss Hunters an in Faction unit. And of course id just love to have a Nyss unit.

[SorenRoses]

i heard a whie back an idea of "lesser warjacks" that idea sounded interesting. it could fill a roll for "light jacks" that we don't really have in terms of a 3-4 point arc node or maybe some infanty killers.... just a thought.

[Indy]

From a thematic point of view, I'm surprised that the Iosans, who are clearly a dying people, aren't investing more into using automatons, like warjacks, in more combat roles. They have very advanced science and engineering, so surely things the size of a Squire or a Woldshrimp should be well within their capabilities?

So yeah. I think we need arcantric wold shrimp.

[Krymson1986]

I read more fane knights and thought: YES!. What about a unit of fane knight cavalry w 5 wounds eacch, if they get dismounted they have 2 wounds. Unit attachments: skeryth, unit gains righteous fury and fearless. Roughly the same stats as the issyen chargers. When dismounted obviously lose line breaker.