Typhon good or great you decide

[Ruler of Everblight]

So when it comes to warbeasts for legon I have to say Typhone takes the cake or am I wrong about this ? It just seams he has a lot to bring to the table .

[VOLK]

Okay Stephen Colbert, settle down now.

[PG_vengence88]

I think he's a beast....yea I went there lol. He's my favorite, but with character restrictions I haven't used him in a long while so I don't rely on him

[Ruler of Everblight]

Yeah I have him too and really like him a lot ! I have each one of his heads colored to an animus lol

[PG_Draxos]

Everybody at my LGS is in consensus that he is a bad beast. No reach and no pathfinder and an poor attack setup makes him a poor choice for his points

[alchahest]

haha really? Typhon, bad?

I can see arguments for pretty much any of the normally derided things we have. archers, teraphs, whatever. but Typhon? seriously?

[Ruler of Everblight]

I have to agree with alchahest here

[SageofLodoss]

Everybody at my LGS is in consensus that he is a bad beast. No reach and no pathfinder and an poor attack setup makes him a poor choice for his points

That's faulty logic IMO.

Legion has 2 non-character heavies with Reach, and of them only the Scythean uses that Reach for the most brutal effect; the Angelius is about using it for threat range and getting that one good Armor Piercer in, and occasionally for the overtake unit clearing. Proteus' reach is underwhelming. Typhon has good speed for a heavy and 8 inch sprays. His threat range is still good enough.

Lack of pathfinder only stands out because we're in a faction spoiled with flight and pathfinder. It's not super common among everything in every faction. There are ways to play around difficult terrain, such as, you know, taking Typhon AND a Scythean (GASP) and having the latter cover the rough areas. Much like how people have launched doom and gloom at Ghetorix for lacking pathfinder compared to the Stalker, I don't see the doom here.

Poor attack setup? Typhon has the same damage output as a Scythean against a single target. No thresher for the third hit, but better MAT and doesn't need two hits to gain the third. He lacks Reach, but can Spray three times and has gunfighter, giving him an ability to spray away at tons of infantry even if they try to engage him, with RAT and POW sufficient to take down Trollkins and Banes. After an Angelius, he's the second best Forced Evolution target, sitting at 16 DEF 18ARM with Tenacity. Also, don't underestimate the power of his gunfighter charges, in which he can use the extra 3 inches to move to the side of his charge target, actually intending to get an angle on a juicier target elsewhere.

At 12 points he's expensive, but he's good because he's versatile, able to do a number of different things for your army. He's no Deathjack, but Deathjack is *undercosted*

[Neutralyze]

Typhon is good.

[Xnath]

Seems like any beast is good or bad based on various opinions and metas. IMO 3 sprays with the ability to boost is good.

[Defenstrator]

Typhon is good but not great. He's no Proteus, but he's no Deathjack either. Offensively he's solid, defensively he's a Slayer with a couple more boxes. I really wish he had reach, more bcuase of Gunfighter than the melee threat range.

[Omnus]

When I started the game...I had him in almost every list. But without reach and pathfinder and only 17 armor...I tend to prefer a scythean. Typhon also brings to the table many tricks. Such as Spraying troops to catch an eSkarre feated deathjack. But points are so tight it is tough to take it soemtimes and in the Char Restricted Meta...pVayl kinda claims Typhon and no one can argue with her about it : )

[correlation2]

Well, look at the sig.

Anything without Reach is considered trash in Khadorland. :P

[PG_BloodRath]

Typhon I feel hurts because of pathfinder. I would pay 13 pts for him to have it

That said. Some casters like the vayls and the thags make typhon bonkers good.

If you want it to have reach just play abby.

[Roadhouse]

Typhon is good but not great. He's no Proteus, but he's no Deathjack either. Offensively he's solid, defensively he's a Slayer with a couple more boxes. I really wish he had reach, more because of Gunfighter than the melee threat range.

Reach would actually be a detriment to the sprays as Gunfighter lets your make ranged attacks with a .5" melee range, and if you engage something outside of the .5 you won't be able to spray it. If Gunfighter allowed you to make ranged attacks against models which you were engaging, it would be great, as is Playing God on Typhon is Skornergestic.

Edit: Typhon is good, great with pLylyth and pVayl.

[Necra-Chi]

Playing God on Typhon is te opposite of skornergistic, it solves all the problems he has with being engaged by reach models and not being able to spray. Giving him reach now overrides that and allows him to spray whatever he is engaged with. It has been ruled on/errataed. I always take playing god on Typhon. It makes his threat range pretty awesome because it also increases the threat range on gunfighter charges.

[eKraye]

Reach would actually be a detriment to the sprays as Gunfighter lets your make ranged attacks with a .5" melee range, and if you engage something outside of the .5 you won't be able to spray it. If Gunfighter allowed you to make ranged attacks against models which you were engaging, it would be great, as is Playing God on Typhon is Skornergestic.

Edit: Typhon is good, great with pLylyth and pVayl.

That's incorrect, gunfighter is melee range, if you have reach that's 2" not .5"... Just mentioning... Playing God on Typhon isn't skornegy.. it's splorgegy.

[Obeisance]

Typhon isn't amazing, but he's not bad either. He's just "solid."

He's expensive, sure. And he has the DEF/ARM of a 6pt Cryx Slayer.

Why is he good?
Excessive Healing is worth it.
Highest MAT on all our beasts.
The flexibility of a mix of 3 P+S 17 melee attacks or 3 RAT 5, POW 14 sprays.

We don't have a lot of infantry hosing stuff- Typhon does it ok. Better with buffs like Incite. Sure, no Pathfinder or Reach sucks the big one but his benefits outweigh shortcomings.

It's like saying Deathjack is bad because he doesn't have Reach or Pathfinder.

... and the model is badass.

[Roadhouse]

@ Necra and eKraye...

YOU RIGHT. I was, until this time, unaware of the Gunfighter ruling and am happy to learn of it.

[FeralJim]

At 12 points he's expensive, but he's good because he's versatile, able to do a number of different things for your army. He's no Deathjack, but Deathjack is *undercosted*

Typhon is good but not great. He's no Proteus, but he's no Deathjack either. Offensively he's solid, defensively he's a Slayer with a couple more boxes. I really wish he had reach, more because of Gunfighter than the melee threat range.

Typhon isn't amazing, but he's not bad either. He's just "solid." ... He's expensive, sure. And he has the DEF/ARM of a 6pt Cryx Slayer... We don't have a lot of infantry hosing stuff- Typhon does it ok. Better with buffs like Incite. Sure, no Pathfinder or Reach sucks the big one but his benefits outweigh shortcomings.

Others have pretty much summed it all up nicely above.

For 12 points his solid. His infantry-clearing abilities make him unique amongst our Heavies and help him fill a much needed roll we already struggle to fill (mass infantry is often a problem for us).

The thing is though: Mulg, Tiberion, Ghetorix, Kharn, Megalith and potentially even Rok are all much better than Typhon is. They aren't merely "good". They are fantastic. And I think they should be too. Character restrictions in 2012 mean your only going to get them into one list so it's nice that they are so great.

Typhon isn't bad by any stretch but he is only just worth his points. This doesn't compare favourably at all with most of the other Hordes Character Heavies who are often worth much more. It only gets worse when you consider Proteus is actually worth LESS.

For a Beast-Heavy faction it's incredibly ironic (and probably intentional) that we don't have access to a really insane Heavy.

[regleant]

The first few times I used Typhon, I was unimpressed. Arm 17 is terrible! When I stopped using him as a front-line beast and took to his Toolbox, things went much better for me.

I'm sure I'm still using him wrong, as I don't feel that I'm getting 12 points out of him, but he's definitely not "great".

[JosephKerr]

I've won way too many games by clearing a path to the enemy caster and dropping boosted sprays on their heads to consider Typhon as anything other than "worth it".

[rivenwyrm]

I'm pretty new to Legion (first games will be this week), so I'm kind of surprised that people don't find his base POW 18s to be pretty important. I know the Scythean kicks ***, but is it really not necessary to have the POW 18s for ARM cracking? Or do people just try to bypass high ARM and go for a caster kill?

[Defenstrator]

Since he has base POW 17s, it isn't normally an issue.

[SageofLodoss]

I'm pretty new to Legion (first games will be this week), so I'm kind of surprised that people don't find his base POW 18s to be pretty important. I know the Scythean kicks ***, but is it really not necessary to have the POW 18s for ARM cracking? Or do people just try to bypass high ARM and go for a caster kill?

Typhon is POW 17 bites, like the Scythean's blades. Carnivean is the only one with a base POW 18 (just his bite).

[Kuwanger23]

You guys just miss him in the MKII Hordes rule test. He was Bonkers then. MMMMMM movement 7 nom nom nom.

[rivenwyrm]

Typhon is POW 17 bites, like the Scythean's blades. Carnivean is the only one with a base POW 18 (just his bite).

I must have misread the card. Well... nevermind then.

[Seferon]

@ Necra and eKraye...

YOU RIGHT. I was, until this time, unaware of the Gunfighter ruling and am happy to learn of it.

Take a look at the rule book again. I'm pretty sure that you were right and that gun fighter in the rule book is defined as having a .5 melee range specifically for gun fighter. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if Typhon's reach weapons get 2 inch reach, his gun fighter melee range remains .5 inches because its a ranged attack being used in melee, not a melee attack being used in melee. Thus it should not get 2 inch reach. At least i believe i remember reading this in primal but i don't have one handy right now.

As for typhon. He is probably one of the few character warbeasts that is appropriately point cost. You can compare him to other character beasts but a majority of them are under point costed. We pay for Versitility, thats all there is to it. If you need a beast that can take down infantry but can also scrap a heavy, Typhon is your model to go to. Thats about all there is to say about him. However, with that being said, since he does not specialize in one role better then the other, he is just good and not great.

[rivenwyrm]

I believe there was an infernal ruling about models with reach being able to use gunfighter at 2".

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...l=1#post439413

[drachenfels]

Take a look at the rule book again. I'm pretty sure that you were right and that gun fighter in the rule book is defined as having a .5 melee range specifically for gun fighter.

that line is there to grant a melee range to models with gun fighter that wouldnt otherwise have a melee range. Checck here for the origional ruling - http://privateerpressforums.com/show...l=1#post439413

[Northern Ronin]

You guys just miss him in the MKII Hordes rule test. He was Bonkers then. MMMMMM movement 7 nom nom nom.

I just miss him having reach. It's my only complaint about him. Well, that and the Manifest nerf, since who didn't like 3 sprays dropping the low dice? Oh right. Opponents.

[Seferon]

that line is there to grant a melee range to models with gun fighter that wouldnt otherwise have a melee range. Checck here for the origional ruling - http://privateerpressforums.com/show...l=1#post439413

Ahh, so it was a change from a ruling before. I thought it was ruled that you only got .5 for gunfighter but apparently they ruled it again. I'll have to let are pressgangers know tomorrow. We have been playing it by the old ruling.

[alchahest]

typhon's reach was initially removed because of the weird interaction with gunfighter, then gunfighter was fixed and the interaction would no longer be weird. however, he is still 100% worth his 12 points.

[vaildin]

I find typhon to be about the only reason to run Rhyas anymore. Him running around at Mat 8 Rat6 is pretty amazing. A bunch of sprays under incite with vayl is pretty nice. And, of course, playing god with Abby. With other warlocks, I think it more depends on what the rest of your list looks like, and what you're actually trying to accomplish.

[Roadhouse]

Walking Typhon has a 14" threat. Charging its 17". Slipstream and/or Leash can add an additional 2/3 inches respectively. Sprays ignore everything, except elevation. No LoS? Model X can't be targeted? That's ok, target something else. For 1 point you can bring a Feralgeist, which really opens up Typhon's potential. You can charge it in the back for that extra 3" and use it to position all 3 sprays perfectly with no fear of killing your spotter.

Under both pLylyth and pVayl, Typhon's ability to assassinate is almost hard to believe.

Before the second coming, the Ravagore, Typhon had more assassinations than any other beast I used.

[FeralJim]

That's a great idea with the Feralgeist Roadhouse. I'll be using it next gaming night to great affect. Going to solve me all sorts of positioning problems imo.

I wasn't here for the Field Test so I didn't know Typhon used to have Reach and SPD7. Either of those would have been a fair trade off for no Pathfinder imo but he didn't get any of them all he got was the short straw.

[FeralJim]

double post