A Mohsar question...

[PG_Draxos]

Now tonight at my LGS I had a game with Mohsar and when I asked my opponent to critique my list the only thing he could come up with was that the Gorax was a bit redundant with Mohsar since he can cast Curse of Shadows on a target so I don't need to have Primal in my list to destroy a Khador heavy.

Thinking about this I agree with him but at the same time I enjoy the redundancy of having both should I need to break Karchev level armor. What do you guys think?

[Orkbert]

Without a Gallows Grove or some Geomancy Mohsar has to come rather close to the opponent (of course he probably would then use Sand of Fate to get back to a more safe distance) which he doesn't have to with the Gorax.
Additionally there might be occasions where you want/need both at once.
Plus sometimes the +2mat is just as important as the +2str.

Oh, and since Mohsar is our highest fury warlock it ain't bad to have a cheap fury battery around.

[taffyjoe]

Primal's big point - especially with a Stalker, is the +2 MAT, the stalker is often a finisher, and against 'casters you'll need that MAT boost. The POW boost is great against camping casters, or very heavy arm - like Tiberion.

The Gorax is also a damm good beast in its own right with Mohsar - he has synergy with maltreatment, and with primal on him, curse on his target he can takeout 'lighter' heavies, like Ironclad stats, even when they're unharmed. Plus the old 4 fury for 4 points, which on an 8 fury caster is a good deal.

I always keep a Gorax in my Mohsar lists, sometimes he's a little slow and can seem to not play much of a part. I now make an effort to get him up field and use him as a useful secondary beatstick with Mohsar and he works well.

In some of the older Mohsar threads (there's a good one by Rez) there is a bit of discussion if the Gorax could be dropped from Mohsar lists as people were a bit 'iffy about using the points for a fury battery and primal. But with Mohsar he is a seriously good deal.

[Patuljak]

My current beast loadout with old cranky Mo' is Mega, Gorax and two Purebloods. I use the Curse of Shadows + Primal redundancy to be able to run the less beatsticky Purebloods, who offer so much in comparison to the less flexible melee centric beasties.

The sprays get to POW 16 with CoS. RAT 7 with Undergrowth. It's great assasination potential, especially coupled with the Sands of Fate -> Dust Howler -> Crevasse trick. Even without the latter, the two boosted sprays often kill outright if you manage to get Mega within 5" of their caster and hit with his CoS. And with Stones and Mirage, you've got plenty of opportunities for that.

Also, MAT 6 POW 18 Purebloods (CoS) will scrap a lot of heavies in the game. If you Primal them on top of that, they kill ANY heavy. And it's easy to protect them when they spray with Pillars, Undergrowth, Bloodtracker bodies and Gobber clouds. Really, it's a great denial shooty list, I highly suggest trying out the double Pureblood before dismissing it.

Of course, some people prefer the Stalker. It's a question of playstyle I suppose, hit&run goes well with denial. But I just don't see any need for it, as Mohsar clears out infantry well, Purebloods clear infantry well enough and hit hard to the point where you just don't need any more power, and the sprays give you a lot of options for all kinds of stuff.

[PG_Darkblood]

With Mohsar I like to have a gorax for three reasons.
1. Fury generation, at fury 8 you'll like having him when a heavy gets knocked out
2. Maltreatment, I don't like hurting my warpwolves or megalith, they have enough trouble surviving as it is, so this little 4 point waste keeps them running at full, also your maltreatment target has to go first so an extra warbeast that you don't have to care so much about means your hurting your turn less with the dictates of activation order.
3. Primal, As its been said Primal is important for the +2 mat. Other then that Primal is good for other situations, like when your using CoS to get to their caster, or something is big and scary and you cant CoS it (first thing that comes to mind is the Avatar) or when you have multiple big targets that need to be taken down/need to secure one.
4. Punching Bag, for 4 points two boostable pow 12s (especially with primal and cos on the board) can put out some serious hurt, add in the free charge from maltreatment and pain response, generally my gorax sees less action in other lists and more sitting in the bag because I'm running hot on fury as it is but with effective fury 9 he can do his thing.
5. Bodyguard- ok so with mohsar not the most needed thing since youll be warping around the board like a mad man, but their are still time, especially when my enemy has lots of flankers having a beast camping mohsar is nice.
6. More transfer targets- Something forgotten in hordes sometimes, but bringing an extra beast over a solo means you can transfer to him first over your big expensive heavies and with Mohsars terrible defenses itll come in handy.
7. Super throws, with mohsar and pillars two open fists and a cheap slammer are never a bad thing.

Biggest thing Mohsar gives to my army comp (this is my opinion so feel free to disagree) is the ability to run more beasts. With two heavies and this little guy you can run almost to full fury and not be in frenzy mode. This is awesome, one of the weaknesses to the gorax is he is fury 4 but generally cant run hot without frenzying (unless he is primalled but i save that for bigger guys). So under Mohsar not only does he provide Mohsar with the fury he desperately needs Mohsars high fury stat allows him to literally run wild and do more fun stuff!

Been playing Mohsar a lot lately and these are the things I've found him good for! Hope this helps!

[Phatheadaf]

@OP...

The Gorax does all the other posters already said. Just a point on redundancy: in this game more often than not, it's a good thing. The extra two points of ST mean that you might scrap two heavies in a turn, as opposed to just one. Means your not afraid of Arcane Shield. Means that focus camping casters dont stand a chance, even if their ARM gets to the mid 20s. So IMHO, the Gorax buff makes just as much sense when you have more things to stack it with, like CoS or Forced Evo. Maybe at 35 it's not as necessary but at 50 I think it makes all the sense in the world.

A.