Garryth for fun

[Murkhadh]

Let me preface this with I haven't tested this yet, have zero expectations this is pure theory that I think if nothing else, should at least be fun and let me get models on the table that I don't usually play or play together.
I've been one of the loudest voices saying Garryth needs to play as a support caster first and only go for the melee kill himself if they hand it to you. We don't have reliable speed buffs or ways to grant incorporeal or acrobatics etc to make movement shenanigans getting him to the caster a reliable strategy.

But, every time I have gotten Garryth into melee with a caster, the Caster died, every time. I honestly think there is no surer thing in the game at putting a caster down than Garryth, he ignores both of the defensive mechanisms casters have to keep them safe (camped focus, transfers)

So instead Lets try to bring the caster to Garryth

In the past when others suggested using battle mages to pull casters to Garryth, my response was magic ability 6 is hard to hit many casters with (def 16). This was largely before the Vyre jacks. Came out.

Enter the Sphinx, the Sphinx can effectively make them magic ability 8 which isn't too shabby, but now the sphinx needs to hit the caster himself first, his rat 5 means he needs an 11 to hit, not too reliable.
Enter The sentinels and pronto. with pronto you can hopefully get the Sphinx to be able to aim, not you need a 9, which is much easier. Sentinels already have good syngergy with Garryth as is.
So enough blabbing, list ideas.

Garryth
Sphinx
sylys
Sentinels + UA
Marshalled Sphinx
2x Battle Mages
2 magisters
MHSF + UA
2 arcanists

The last two points I was thinking corbeau Or Ryssal I can't decide.

You basically have miraged MHSF in the early game which keep them aiming, let them disengage to shoot things that ran to engage etc.
switch that to sentinels later.

After that the list would function somwhat like a rahn list, debuffs from sphinxes, mages pulling jacks/beasts to the awaiting sentinels.
Then the idea is ultimately to drag the caster close to Garryth so he can seal the deal.

corbeau helps Garryth with the 3 inches of movement, Ryssal lets garryth charge 2 more inches. These are both useful, Ryssal also lets your sentinels charge 2 more inches too which can be useful.

The list should also be good in scenarios that you have to control zones because you should be able to push/pull things out of zones similar to how you do with Rahn with the mages and gallows.

You have the MHSF for infantry clearing and high defense (helped by death sentence if need be)
sentinels for heavy armor (sphinx's with the arcanist buff are servicable at pow 18 as well)
you have lots of magic attacks for incorporeal or windwall

and for mass stealth/bane spam, whichever unit has mirage out-threats the banes. Or you cann spread your mhsf and sents to have a few models in the front line take the charge, the ones that died die, the ones that didn't, mirage away and counter shoot.

I half wish I could get an arnode in here to arc death sentence, but we don't have a cheap option. And outside of the last two points I don't know what I would take out. I would marshall both Sphinxes if it would fit.

At least sylys is here to make DS 12 range, easier to hit with and do more damage.

Do I think I'm winning gencon with this list?
No.

Do I think it can win some games and be fun?
Yes.

[serrasin]

some interesting thoughts.

On the deliberation between Lanyssa or Maddie, I prefer the later purely for mobility shenanigans. Her movement advantage does not require a roll and it can be non-linear.

I have found that I like the halbrediers better with Garryth because they can jam in faster and give your opponent less wiggle room. Have you considered going with a full unit of halbrediers and marshalling with the Scyer for the reroll on the attack?

[Murkhadh]

some interesting thoughts.

On the deliberation between Lanyssa or Maddie, I prefer the later purely for mobility shenanigans. Her movement advantage does not require a roll and it can be non-linear.

I have found that I like the halbrediers better with Garryth because they can jam in faster and give your opponent less wiggle room. Have you considered going with a full unit of halbrediers and marshalling with the Scyer for the reroll on the attack?

I have actually. Overall I like the halbs better than the sents, there are a handful of situations though I see the sents with the advantage, Garryth happens to be one of them. Because this list is so pillow fisted, I wanted the sents in it, and mirage on them is awesome and bringing the target to the sents helps their greatest weakness, no pathfinder and threat range.

The scyir I like, but I think a flat +2 to rat > than a reroll. Maybe its my frustration with ret with having all of our + hit buffs be re-roll or roll more dice based.

[Murkhadh]

Observations after a few games:

Order of activation can get tricky with this list. I'm also starting to think an arcnode would be a good idea. The one loss I had was due to be getting garryth too close.

Being able to arc death sentence earlier from safety would be helpful and later in the game, beign able to arc gallows sounds like it would be cool.

[Grampa Nemo]

@Murkhadh - As I noted in my thread, you've got me right interested in trying out Garryth. What do you think of the following 35pt list based on your theories.

Garryth (+5)
Phoenix - 10
Min Sentinels with UA - 8
marshalled Sphinx - 7
Min MHSF with UA - 7
Battlemages - 5
Magister - 2
Arcanist - 1

I know that taking our infantry at min flies in the face of conventional wisdom but I think it can work at the 35 pt level because the above list should have enough ways tp disrupt the opponents battle line.

[Murkhadh]

@Murkhadh - As I noted in my thread, you've got me right interested in trying out Garryth. What do you think of the following 35pt list based on your theories.

Garryth (+5)
Phoenix - 10
Min Sentinels with UA - 8
marshalled Sphinx - 7
Min MHSF with UA - 7
Battlemages - 5
Magister - 2
Arcanist - 1

I know that taking our infantry at min flies in the face of conventional wisdom but I think it can work at the 35 pt level because the above list should have enough ways tp disrupt the opponents battle line.

I look at this as the opponent and say to myself, only having to kill a min unit of sentinels is WAY easier than having to deal with a full unit.

How sentinels often work for me is the opponent focus's on them and comes up e or 4 short of wiping out the entire unit, those 3 or 4 vengeance and then kill a heavy on their activation.

If I have 3 or so less sents in the list, he would have been successful at wiping them out.

similar effect with the mhsf, their rat 6 means you need to take more shots. I'd swap the phoenix for a chimera and get one of those units at least to max.

[Grampa Nemo]

Hehe - I started with the Sentinels at Full with a Souless escort and a Chimera but then looked at the list and thought it was too pillow-fisted and that the arc node would be easy to take out . . .

Agreed that all of Rets units work best at max strength - for the Garryth list I think its better to take the full Sentinels because everything else is very pillow-fisted.

[Murkhadh]

Hehe - I started with the Sentinels at Full with a Souless escort and a Chimera but then looked at the list and thought it was too pillow-fisted and that the arc node would be easy to take out . . .

Agreed that all of Rets units work best at max strength - for the Garryth list I think its better to take the full Sentinels because everything else is very pillow-fisted.

I agree as well, sentinels killed 2 stormclads for me in one turn of attacks in the game I played yesterday, the remaining 3 next turn almost wrecked a third stormclad (yes this kid loves him some stormclads, he says when he gets a 4th one its going in the list)