First game with Vessel of Judgement

[fishfleas]

I played my first game with the Vessel of Judgement today. It didn't really do a lot until late in the game but then it pulled out the win for me. I was facing the High Reclaimer. I had decimated him with pSevvy + Blessing + A2A. clearing out his screen of peons. In the process landing some good damage on the Reclaimer. However, I failed to finish him off with Sevvy. I look around and I think... I can shoot him with the vessel. No, I'm engaged, can't do that.... Wait!!!... I have a miracle where I can bump everyone back from the vessel... Alright, now I have a clear line on the Reclaimer. GG.

It was nice.

My new favorite model is still the blessing and the blessing + Sevvy is just money for killing stuff. However, it was nice to see a 12" shot from the vessel for the win...

[FC17]

The vessel is one of those models you just don't realize how good it is until you play with it. Best battle engine in the game.

[fishfleas]

I agree, i wasn't expecting much, but even after one offensive activation, I can tell it is going to deal out a ton of damage, and has further benefits over other options. Can't wait to try it again.

[Ikras]

I've only had one game with it so far myself but it's been a lot of fun.

One shot plus admonisher removed 4 gunmages and thats always good. I was hoping to get doors of judgement off on a cinnerator but my opponent refused to oblige and managed to leave him on one box =(

Unfortunately it died after Rowdy charged with 3 focus and positive charge but that was my own fault. It was too tempting to push a bunch of stormguard back through a flame wall. It just had to be done.

Looking forward to getting it on the table again and seeing what else I can do with it.

[ZealousJohnny]

I've had good experience with the Vessel. I've played it a few times and reckon it's probably best in a very heavy shooting Sevi1 list. It's a reliable hitter and damage dealer if you always boost to hit and damage on pretty much everything. Eye of Menoth makes it, like everything else, just that little bit better. I also take it instead of another Jack, generally taking just it, a Vanquisher, and BoV. The jacks don't use much focus, and the vessel uses none. Depending on support it usually leaves Sevi with enough for a boosted Ashes to Ashes shot through the BoV when its needed. I've had good use out of all three of the Holy Reliquary as well, Erruption of Faith shinig as the best, but that's likely because it was in a very shooty army and getting pushing things out of melee range was vital. Despite all of the tricks it can pull, it's not that complicated a piece either, which is always nice. Trundle up and shoot most of the time and look out for opportunities for the three abilities.

To sum up, I like it very much . My only problem with it is it isn't in the Battlegroup, and cant benefit from Sevi2's Awareness

[PG_strangedane]

I started out with not liking it, then I saw the rules for my Skorne Battle Engine and that made me try it out since I wanted at least one of them to work - and now I love it!!

Had a game the other night against Cygnar, had Vilmon and a Paladin barely alive, with Ol' Rowdy in front of them, with Grudge up, letting him hit me if I hit him. The Paladin charged, hit, good damage and died to Grudge. "IT IS A MIRACLE!" I said and used doors of judgement, doing more damage, and then charged with Vilmon.
Next turn he killed Vilmon to avoid free strikes and I announced another miracle, scrapping the jack hehe, the look on my opponents face!

[stormshaft]

Wonderful stories.
Very inspiring, and I'm getting closer to finising splashing on paint on my own VoJ.

Which warcasters/units have you used with it, and with which results?

[Ikras]

It was pfeora for me. Found it worked quite well as it wasn't going off with any of her focus. The push back through her flame wall was by chance but it makes me want to try and set this up on purpose now. Line that wall up nicely behind a line of troops then shove them all back through it.

Looking forward to testing it with other casters now.

[fishfleas]

I haven't fielded it yet with a good way to abuse doors of Judgement, but I'm really wanting to try it out.

what models do you feel work best with Doors of Judgement?

[Silverstar843]

My favorite moment with it was against my friend who's probably the best player I know. He was playing mercs and had A&H near Gorman and all 3 near Snapjaw. I used Purification to get rid of Submerge and then shot Snapjaw and it arced into all 3 and ate them.

[brotherscott]

I haven't fielded it yet with a good way to abuse doors of Judgement, but I'm really wanting to try it out.

what models do you feel work best with Doors of Judgement?

Weapon Masters with higher MAT...

[brotherscott]

I know I have posted on other threads, but it is worth saying again-

The Vessel of Judgement is not an amazingly-overpowered-super-be-all-end-all game-changer. It is a pretty fun and useful model to be sure. I think I have done more damage to my own Vessel than any of my opponents in any game with it. When I remember the miracles it does even better. On paper it seems pretty average, but on the table top it has been pretty good and worth its points.

I have been running the Vessel with Severius1 for the most part, and keeping it behind a wall of TFG + UA. Not many opponents can get models close enough to it to do a lot of damage or shut it down, and even then I have an answer. Even the Kayazy Assassins have had little to no effect, and they burned because of it. Having the TFG delivery service is great because it benefits from Ranked Attacks to strip out pesky small based models, and with Eye of Menoth up, it is capable of doing decent damage.

Will I take it in less than 35 points? Probably not. I am anxious to see how it plays out at 50...

[Gavriel]

I play with mine regularly and have some input for a couple of casters:

Sevvy1: Amazing, eye of menoth and vision are both great on it!

pFeora: Good, Feora likes to keep her focus so the vessel lets her do that while giving her a shooting platform about as effective as a vanquisher. Wall of fire is good at keeping single wound weapon masters from charging it.

Reznik: I actually really like it with him. It provides a good anti-infantry and anti light ranged platform,which frees your jack points up to be more melee oriented which he likes a lot. I've been rocking him with the Vessel, a Reckoner, and a Dervish to good results. Also that one time the Zombie Reznik trick works is totally worth it just to see the look on your opponent's face.

Harby: Makes a good screen for her and she tends to field models that can make good use of doors of judgement, but that's 9 points you aren't spending on infantry so...

pKreoss: a boosted pow 15 on a knocked down model from 12" away is pretty strong, but a Reckoner does the job better. It works but is just so-so

In conclusion it seems to work best with casters that like to camp focus and casters that actually support melee jacks better than ranged ones. The question I ask before I put it in is generally "is my caster good with putting 2 focus on a Vanquisher every turn?" If yes skip it and take the Vanq+Vassal, if no Take Vessel + Mechanik.

[Fish76]

Hey, I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but what's the interaction between Doors and the KE? Would a Zombie Exemplar get his own death bonus (that'd be too sweet)?

[jandrese]

The KE death bonus doesn't kick in until the model is destroyed or removed from play, DoJ happens before that.

[Fish76]

Shame. I knew it was too good.

[FranzGrenstein]

I started out with not liking it, then I saw the rules for my Skorne Battle Engine and that made me try it out since I wanted at least one of them to work - and now I love it!!

Had a game the other night against Cygnar, had Vilmon and a Paladin barely alive, with Ol' Rowdy in front of them, with Grudge up, letting him hit me if I hit him. The Paladin charged, hit, good damage and died to Grudge. "IT IS A MIRACLE!" I said and used doors of judgement, doing more damage, and then charged with Vilmon.
Next turn he killed Vilmon to avoid free strikes and I announced another miracle, scrapping the jack hehe, the look on my opponents face!

I thought you could only use the miracles once per turn...on that miracle you can use it on the opfor turn and your turn.

[Zyllos]

Going off the same idea above for KE, does Quick Work work with EEs after DoJ? DoJ says they die after completing the full advance and attack action. Quick Work happens after boxing a model. It almost seems both the dying from DoJ and Quick Work happens at the same time, and sense this happens during the opponents turn, they can say "Let DoJ happen first."

[stormshaft]

I thought you could only use the miracles once per turn...on that miracle you can use it on the opfor turn and your turn.

Yes, once per turn, but there are two turns in one round, meaning you can use Doors once in your turn (unless it's from a freestrike or similiar), and then once when something gets killed in the opponents turn.

So what he did is actually perfectly legal.

Strangedane's turn: Paladin -> Doors, then charge with Vilmon
Opponents turn: Kills Vilmon -> Doors again.

Different turns, "same" round.

[FranzGrenstein]

Yes, once per turn, but there are two turns in one round, meaning you can use Doors once in your turn (unless it's from a freestrike or similiar), and then once when something gets killed in the opponents turn.

So what he did is actually perfectly legal.

Strangedane's turn: Paladin -> Doors, then charge with Vilmon
Opponents turn: Kills Vilmon -> Doors again.

Different turns, "same" round.

Pretty sure you are wrong. He states he charged with the paly.... grudge killed it... miracle, then the charged w/ Vilmon...miracle; unless I am reading the quote wrong (entirely posible.) Those two activations were during danes turn.

[PG_KestrelM1]

Going off the same idea above for KE, does Quick Work work with EEs after DoJ? DoJ says they die after completing the full advance and attack action. Quick Work happens after boxing a model. It almost seems both the dying from DoJ and Quick Work happens at the same time, and sense this happens during the opponents turn, they can say "Let DoJ happen first."

Quick Work is during your activation, so it doesn't work with Doors of Judgment unless you use the doors when the unit is still in its activation (something like Counter-Charge would allow that scenario). This is the same reason you don't get Quick Work on, say, Free Strikes.

[stormshaft]

Had a game the other night against Cygnar, had Vilmon and a Paladin barely alive, with Ol' Rowdy in front of them, with Grudge up, letting him hit me if I hit him. The Paladin charged, hit, good damage and died to Grudge. "IT IS A MIRACLE!" I said and used doors of judgement, doing more damage, and then charged with Vilmon.
Next turn he killed Vilmon to avoid free strikes and I announced another miracle, scrapping the jack hehe, the look on my opponents face!

@FranzGrenstein:
Actually, my interpretation is that he didn't the Doors twice in his own turn, but once in his own, and once in his opponents turn.

But if you are correct about him using the same miracle in the same turn, then he did it wrong, but that's not how I read the above quote.

[FranzGrenstein]

@FranzGrenstein:
Actually, my interpretation is that he didn't the Doors twice in his own turn, but once in his own, and once in his opponents turn.

But if you are correct about him using the same miracle in the same turn, then he did it wrong, but that's not how I read the above quote.

Wow, I need to stop eating and reading.

[ringsnake]

I've played it a few times with Reznik. It's pretty good. Solidly worth it's ten points. 9 + 1 for mechanik.

Nothing too inspiring. Lost both games, but the only thing it reliably dies to is a heavy warjack charging it. It's got enough armor and boxes to draw all of your opponent's ranged attacks, or last a few turns while drawing away considerable amounts of fire.

[PG_strangedane]

@FranzGrenstein:
Actually, my interpretation is that he didn't the Doors twice in his own turn, but once in his own, and once in his opponents turn.

But if you are correct about him using the same miracle in the same turn, then he did it wrong, but that's not how I read the above quote.

I used it in different turns. 2 charges in my own turn, one miracle when the first paladin died. In my opponents turn he killed vilmon, and I used another miracle

[FranzGrenstein]

Sorry dane... eating, working and reading do not mix.


Anybody try it with Thyra?

[stormshaft]

Had my first game with my freshly painted Vessel tonight.
I must say that it behaved perfectly and the gun was even better than I had originally thought.
A good range, a nice POW and admonisher + the ability to boost all rolls.
In a 35p game against Khador it took out 3 Doom Reavers, all of the Great Bears and a Greylord escort.
Although I only used the Doors once (and my KE was out of range from any enemy models at that point) and none of the other miracles.

But all in all I would say it was very, very good. In combination with a Reckoner and a Vanquisher I took out all of his infantry in a few rounds of shooting and facebeating.

I tried it with Reznick in semi-hopes of getting to use the Holy Zombie Reznik-ability, but good ol' Rezzy ate pVlad on a nasty EoD-charge so I didn't get to do it.

Next person up to use it is probably pSeverius.

[High Templar]

I used it in different turns. 2 charges in my own turn, one miracle when the first paladin died. In my opponents turn he killed vilmon, and I used another miracle

a quick question, can the miracled model charge the enemy? or jus a general advance?

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

a quick question, can the miracled model charge the enemy? or jus a general advance?

Full advance and a normal attack. Not a charge.

[Charming]

Remember you can make ranged attacks as well! I usually get too fixed on the thought of using Doors on weaponmasters but it may very well be worth using it on zealots

[jandrese]

You want something even more surprising: If you bring a Sunburst and the gun is killed in melee it can walk out of melee and make a parting shot with the gun! Just don't get too far away from the other members of the unit.

[ringsnake]

Remember you can make ranged attacks as well! I usually get too fixed on the thought of using Doors on weaponmasters but it may very well be worth using it on zealots

It is, I used it with Zealots and it worked quite well. Zealot is still a member of his unit when he does his thing, and still gets +2 +2, and you can throw at point blank for a certain hit with the blast and not care.

[Cannotcope]

You want something even more surprising: If you bring a Sunburst and the gun is killed in melee it can walk out of melee and make a parting shot with the gun! Just don't get too far away from the other members of the unit.

This is because the Light Artillery rule only applies during the model's activation and the Doors move+attack is not an activation, right?

Nice.

If you move the "dead" sunburst just right, Range Finder, on the other hand is not restricted to being used during the model's "activation"

[jandrese]

Right, the light artillery restriction is only during your activation.

Also, about Zealots, Hymn of Battle is turn only, so you would only get the +2/+2 for a DoJ attack if the Zealot got killed by a Freestrike or countercharge or something else during your turn. On your opponents turn he's back to RAT 4 P+S 12.

[Der Tod]

Sorry for digging this up but I am sitting here at my laptop while checking the website of my favourite miniture supplier and I think about buying that machine ... as I am quite money efficient I would like how the people in the forum see the actual benefit that it can eventually add to my lists and casters.

I use Reznik, eFeora and Thyra to name the casters I own and which I play on a regular basis. I am thinkin about using eFeora as my main caster and play several games with here within the next time (my general problem is owning five factions therefore I skip casters all the time without really mastering one in particular and I wanna change that.

With eFeora I run usually 3 jacks + support and one big infantry unit. Can the VoJ add some value to that (jacks are Avatar, Reckoner, Vanquisher and/or Templar to be precise)

Im thankful for any opinion who can help me to spend my money efficiently

[Der Tod]

Sorry for digging this up but I am sitting here at my laptop while checking the website of my favourite miniture supplier and I think about buying that machine ... as I am quite money efficient I would like how the people in the forum see the actual benefit that it can eventually add to my lists and casters.

I use Reznik, eFeora and Thyra to name the casters I own and which I play on a regular basis. I am thinkin about using eFeora as my main caster and play several games with here within the next time (my general problem is owning five factions therefore I skip casters all the time without really mastering one in particular and I wanna change that.

With eFeora I run usually 3 jacks + support and one big infantry unit. Can the VoJ add some value to that (jacks are Avatar, Reckoner, Vanquisher and/or Templar to be precise)

Im thankful for any opinion who can help me to spend my money efficiently

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

I generally pass on the Vessel with eFeora in favor of another vanquisher, but it could definitely work. But I do run the vessel with both Reznik and Thyra literally 100% of the time.

[MetaphoricDragon]

But I do run the vessel with both Reznik and Thyra literally 100% of the time.

I'm curious about how the vessel runs with Thyra? That said, pSeverious and Vindictus can also run the Vessel well.

[Der Tod]

I generally pass on the Vessel with eFeora in favor of another vanquisher, but it could definitely work. But I do run the vessel with both Reznik and Thyra literally 100% of the time.

Given the models I have and what I have posted what I use mostly with my casters I would be highly interested in army lists incorporating the VoJ with Reznik, eFeora and Thyra.

With Thyra I basically see the VoJ supporting some nice range support as well as bringing infantry back (as i am playing KE, KEE and Daughters + Solos not really a problem) but with Reznik and Feora it is usually 3 Heavies plus support to help them so I don't really know what role the VoJ should accomplish.
As I play 35pt games most of the times its even harder to squeeze it I ... if I would have more time for tournies where the point limits are 42 ... i can easily seeing it fit in addition to what I take usually anyways and then add this.

Would you say it is worth an investment (not to make the lists MORE powerful) but in order to add some new flavour or might it even weaken lists quite much as it does take some hitting or shooting power which the jacks provide?!

[PG_strangedane]

Of the listed casters I think Reznik gets the most mileage out of it.
- He can hide behind it
- He tends to bring medium infantry = good models for Miracles
- The Vessel can give him one last attempt at killing the opponent with a miracle